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Hutts11

Myers close to become a wing?

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Personally, I wouldn't move any forwards named Mantha, Tatar, Nyquist or Sheahan in a deal for Myers. I feel like he's a bit of a project, and I wouldn't want this team to gamble assets up front to see if Myers can turn it around. If it were a package of say, Pulkkinen, Backman/Jensen, Weiss/Quincey/Kindl (for cap relief) and a 1st, I might be more receptive to it, but I think Buffalo believes they can get a much better return for him.

I just don't see the risk-reward working out on this deal for Detroit.

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Personally, I wouldn't move any forwards named Mantha, Tatar, Nyquist or Sheahan in a deal for Myers. I feel like he's a bit of a project, and I wouldn't want this team to gamble assets up front to see if Myers can turn it around. If it were a package of say, Pulkkinen, Backman/Jensen, Weiss/Quincey/Kindl (for cap relief) and a 1st, I might be more receptive to it, but I think Buffalo believes they can get a much better return for him.

I just don't see the risk-reward working out on this deal for Detroit.

I like Tatar and all. But realistically he will be maybe a 50-60 point player, which is pretty good. But if you could get a giant dman for Tatar that could possibly put up similar numbers why wouldn't you?

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I wrote something similar this morning but it didn't post for whatever reason and I was too lazy to retype everything... But I agree, none of Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco or Mantha should be involved in a trade for any defenseman in my opinion. None of the elite defense are going to be available to make losing any of those guys worth it and besides, we already have a bit of a logjam on the back end. Why add to that? If we're trading for any of the players reportedly available (Yandle, Bogosian, Byfuglien, Myers, Brewer, Gardiner, Methot...), I think a defenseman or two should go the other way. The players I'd have available would be Kindl, Ouellet, Backman and Marchenko, I'd rather keep Sproul and Jensen if possible...

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I like Tatar and all. But realistically he will be maybe a 50-60 point player, which is pretty good. But if you could get a giant dman for Tatar that could possibly put up similar numbers why wouldn't you?

First off, the whole basis of me not wanting to move a forward is more about their value relative to the team compared to defenders. Right now, we're sitting pretty with Datsyuk, Z and to a lesser extent Mule. When those guys are done, there's a big drop-off in talent. In my eyes, Detroit needs to hang onto their potential top 6 guys for now. On the other hand, they've got guys like DeKeyser and Smith on the team now, with Ouellet, Marchenko, Sproul, Backman and Jensen on the way.

Regardless of that, my opinion of these two players is that one guy is on the upswing, while one is on a downswing. Myers had a fantastic rookie season, but aside from that every thing has pretty much gone downhill from there. I get that he's on the Sabres, but there hasn't been much positive to say about Myers in a long while. Anytime you read Sabres fans discussing Myers (outside of when they want a king's ransom in a trade) they mention his mobility issues and poor decisions with the puck. There's a big IF involved in Myers turning his game around in Detroit.

When I look at Tatar, I do see a guy who tops out at that 50-60 point mark, but I also see a feisty player willing to go to the hard parts of the ice. He plays bigger than he is, and the guy exudes passion. When I think of Tatar and his potential, it's not a matter of "if" but when. I'd rather keep the commodity I know about over the one I'm not sure is going to return to form.

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I like Tatar and all. But realistically he will be maybe a 50-60 point player, which is pretty good. But if you could get a giant dman for Tatar that could possibly put up similar numbers why wouldn't you?

When I look at Tatar, I do see a guy who tops out at that 50-60 point mark, but I also see a feisty player willing to go to the hard parts of the ice. He plays bigger than he is, and the guy exudes passion. When I think of Tatar and his potential, it's not a matter of "if" but when. I'd rather keep the commodity I know about over the one I'm not sure is going to return to form.

First off I would like to say that I am in no way starting a fight or crapping on your opinions, but I would sincerely like to know how you assess Tatar to "top out" at a 50-60 point scorer. Was it from his one full season in the NHL?

To put it in perspective:

Datsyuk' stats from his first season were 70GP 11-24-35

Tatar's stats were 73GP 19-20-39

Those stats are pretty similar, and I'm pretty sure no one thought Datsyuk would turn out to be our franchise center and arguably one of the most talented/innovative payers in the game. I am not comparing the two in skill, but my point remains. I know it feels like we've been talking about Tats forever, but last season was the first time he suited up for over 20 games and, honestly, he was pretty impressive IMO. I'd say give it another full season (or two) before we cap him off as a second line winger.

I'm not saying that its not a realistic assessment or that it won't turn out that way, but I don't feel like there's really been enough time to accurately gauge the player he will become.

My personal opinion? I am on the same boat with some others on this forum who would consider him an "untouchable" (barring some crazy deal, of course) and a valuable asset to this team and its future.

Honestly, as far as Myers goes, if it's gonna cost us the likes of Tatar, Jurco, or Sheahan plus a pick and a high level prospect, I hope Holland just walks away. Would I love him and his desperately needed right-handed shot on this team? Hell yes. But at the cost rumors are claiming it would take to get him? No way. I would rather have Sproul/ Marchenko/Jenson on this team, before trading one of them for Myers.

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First off I would like to say that I am in no way starting a fight or crapping on your opinions, but I would sincerely like to know how you assess Tatar to "top out" at a 50-60 point scorer. Was it from his one full season in the NHL?

To put it in perspective:

Datsyuk' stats from his first season were 70GP 11-24-35

Tatar's stats were 73GP 19-20-39

Those stats are pretty similar, and I'm pretty sure no one thought Datsyuk would turn out to be our franchise center and arguably one of the most talented/innovative payers in the game. I am not comparing the two in skill, but my point remains. I know it feels like we've been talking about Tats forever, but last season was the first time he suited up for over 20 games and, honestly, he was pretty impressive IMO. I'd say give it another full season (or two) before we cap him off as a second line winger.

I'm not saying that its not a realistic assessment or that it won't turn out that way, but I don't feel like there's really been enough time to accurately gauge the player he will become.

My personal opinion? I am on the same boat with some others on this forum who would consider him an "untouchable" (barring some crazy deal, of course) and a valuable asset to this team and its future.

Honestly, as far as Myers goes, if it's gonna cost us the likes of Tatar, Jurco, or Sheahan plus a pick and a high level prospect, I hope Holland just walks away. Would I love him and his desperately needed right-handed shot on this team? Hell yes. But at the cost rumors are claiming it would take to get him? No way. I would rather have Sproul/ Marchenko/Jenson on this team, before trading one of them for Myers.

First, the whole point was that I wouldn't move him for Myers - I do see him as a piece this team needs (ie: value relative to defenders on the team). I understand his value to the team.

I see Tatar as more of a "catch and release" type player, rather than someone who is going to drive the play. If he can put up 60 points, he's still within the top 60 players in the league in terms of point production. I don't think that's insulting, or cutting him short. I think he's going to make an excellent complimentary winger. He's got great hands in tight, and releases the puck as well as anyone on this team.

I do think, however, that he's going to wind up being a 2nd line player on this team. I see Nyquist, Mantha and Jurco as player who all have higher ceilings than he does. Perhaps I'm wrong, and that's fine... but I really do see him as a complimentary guy. I think he's in the same company as Ryan O'Reilly, Voracek and Oshie - all great players, but maybe not ones regarded as superstars.

I do agree about the small sample to judge his potential. Considering there hasn't been enough time to accurately gauge his production in the future, I'd say there's no way to say he'd top out as a 1st line 70-80 point guy, either. Basically, I just feel that what I see from him hints at him being a complimentary winger, not a superstar. Either way, it's all conjecture at this point.

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First, the whole point was that I wouldn't move him for Myers - I do see him as a piece this team needs (ie: value relative to defenders on the team). I understand his value to the team.

I see Tatar as more of a "catch and release" type player, rather than someone who is going to drive the play. If he can put up 60 points, he's still within the top 60 players in the league in terms of point production. I don't think that's insulting, or cutting him short. I think he's going to make an excellent complimentary winger. He's got great hands in tight, and releases the puck as well as anyone on this team.

I do think, however, that he's going to wind up being a 2nd line player on this team. I see Nyquist, Mantha and Jurco as player who all have higher ceilings than he does. Perhaps I'm wrong, and that's fine... but I really do see him as a complimentary guy. I think he's in the same company as Ryan O'Reilly, Voracek and Oshie - all great players, but maybe not ones regarded as superstars.

I do agree about the small sample to judge his potential. Considering there hasn't been enough time to accurately gauge his production in the future, I'd say there's no way to say he'd top out as a 1st line 70-80 point guy, either. Basically, I just feel that what I see from him hints at him being a complimentary winger, not a superstar. Either way, it's all conjecture at this point.

I agree that it's conjecture and I do not think yours was unfair or insulting, I hope I did not come off that way. I just wanted to see where you guys were coming from since you believe he'll top off as a 50-60 point scorer. Honestly, I don't think you're far off; I think he will be in the 60-70 pt per year. I just wanted your perspective.

Either way, I wouldn't want him to be traded, especially for Myers.

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I would hate if the Wings traded Larkin away at this point, without seeing what he can do over the next couple years. Especially for a project such as Myers when we have so many other capable options down in GR. Luckily I really don't see Holland moving him.

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Buffalo is asking way too much for him. It almost feels like his Calder season was a fluke like Jim Carey's was for the Caps. A mid level prospect and a 2nd or 3rd is the most I'd give up (or Kindl, but I think he's going to get it together). I honestly wouldn't trade Quincey.

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Myers is not physical.

No kidding. He literally avoids hitting players. Really. Everyone sees his measurements and just assumes he is or is going to be a physical defensive Dman. He's not. He's john michael liles, only with more to look at.

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No kidding. He literally avoids hitting players. Really. Everyone sees his measurements and just assumes he is or is going to be a physical defensive Dman. He's not. He's john michael liles, only with more to look at.

I've never really saw him play, so yeah I took his size for granted. Last thing we need is another big body that plays like he's 5'6". I know if I could look Zdeno Chara in the eyes without having to look up I'd use that to my advantage.

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I can't see this happening. Certainly not anytime soon (i.e. before the trade deadline). Buffalo's going to want a lot, especially from a divisonal rival that's looking to build itself back into a perennial contender. (And that goes both ways. We don't want cast-offs coming back to haunt us.) While it'd be nice to have a Tyler Myers, I don't think Kenny can justify moving three or four good pieces for such a player at this point in time. Franzen is definitely flat-out off the table, as this team clearly needs all the high-end finishing ability it can get.

Do we need a right shot on the back end, especially on the power play? God yes. But with the options we have in Grand Rapids, and with our team performing pretty well overall so far, I don't think we're desperate enough to make this kind of move. And that's sort of what you'd have to be to make this move. Desperate. Either your blue line really needs help, or you're a legit contender looking for that final piece to put you over. Neither applies to us, IMO.

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