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FireCaptain

Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

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By Diesel do you mean Kevin Nash? Cause thats a horrible nickname that I really hope doesn't catch on.

I also thought about Kevin Big Sexy Nash, the guy only had two nicknames Diesel and Big Sexy *lol* the other one I associate with Diesel is that fast and furious superstar Vin Diesel.

As for Tatar:

The guy has shown tremendous loyality after playing through the most difficult time of his life, so I really hope he gets some sort of reward for that.

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I'd be shocked if either player signs for more than $2M per.....

I think DeKeyser has an outside chance in signing in the low $2M range, I doubt Tatar will get anything close to that...

Edited by krsmith17

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As for Tatar:

The guy has shown tremendous loyality after playing through the most difficult time of his life, so I really hope he gets some sort of reward for that.

Going to work when you're grieving is no doubt difficult. But that's not something you get "rewarded" for, nor does it show loyalty. That's life.

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Guest DeGraa55

I'm really curious what the offers look like that Tatar was offered. Like the five year deal I wonder how much holland has is salary going up over the course of it.

Tatar saying he wants to sign a two or three tells me he thinks he will be worth more then what the five year direct was for.

I think from an organizational standpoint and player standpoint two or three is best.

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I'm really curious what the offers look like that Tatar was offered. Like the five year deal I wonder how much holland has is salary going up over the course of it.

Tatar saying he wants to sign a two or three tells me he thinks he will be worth more then what the five year direct was for.

I think from an organizational standpoint and player standpoint two or three is best.

Just a guess, but I'd wager the 5 year deal is in the neighborhood of 3.0-3.5. I'd love to have him on that deal, but he's smart to opt for the 2-3 years. I agree that it's tough to guess on what he'd be worth on those shorter term deals, especially when considering Sheahan's deal.

I'm sure his his agent is looking around the league, seeing that Killorn put up comparable numbers and got that 2.5 per deal. I'd like to get him for under 2 million, but I think it might be tough.

Edited by Jesusberg

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Going to work when you're grieving is no doubt difficult. But that's not something you get "rewarded" for, nor does it show loyalty. That's life.

I agree. But in addition to the whole dad dying thing, he also was a real good sport about starting the season on the bench after he had clearly played his way onto the team, as well as being a good sport about spending probably a year longer in the AHL than he needed to.

Tatar, despite what some folks think, has had a really good attitude the entire time he's been in Detroit. I think fans just get worried because he'd the kind of guy who says he's disappointed when he is, or pissed off, or whatever. So they always think he's got an attitude. He doesn't. He's just up front about how he's feeling, which is unique for a Red Wing.

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I agree. But in addition to the whole dad dying thing, he also was a real good sport about starting the season on the bench after he had clearly played his way onto the team, as well as being a good sport about spending probably a year longer in the AHL than he needed to.

Tatar, despite what some folks think, has had a really good attitude the entire time he's been in Detroit. I think fans just get worried because he'd the kind of guy who says he's disappointed when he is, or pissed off, or whatever. So they always think he's got an attitude. He doesn't. He's just up front about how he's feeling, which is unique for a Red Wing.

I totally understand why he's gotten frustrated in relation to starting on the bench and spending a while in the AHL.

In fact I think that's a positive thing. It shows he has drive and wants to prove himself and keep getting better.

That's not what rubs me the wrong way.... It's the fact that he vents his frustrations to the press.

If you don't like the way you're being handled as an hockey player/employee/human being then express that to your agent/boss/GM, not The Detroit news and various Czech newspapers.

How many other Red Wings do you see doing that?

So to clarify... I think he has the right attitude. He's just immature in how he deals with it.

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You are aware he offered a ton of money for Niskanen and more than Boyle received from the Rangers? Just because Holland doesn't know why free agents aren't coming here doesn't mean he hasn't been trying.

Besides, how do you not classify Quincey as an overpriced UFA?

Review Barrie's posts. He continually claims that Holland doesn't sign overpriced free agents but never admits that Holland *tries* to sign said free agents. I've called him on it at least twice. Barrie might be a mushroom in Ken Holland's basement.

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I feel like both Tatar and DeKe are worth close to $2 million per on a short-term deal, and with these two players, it feels like the longer the deal, the more it favors the Red Wings. That was not the case with someone like Damien Brunner, where one or two years at $2.5 to $3 million per seemed okay, but more money or more commitment felt like a massive risk, and that was essentially proven correct last year.

Tatar feels like a 30-goal scorer to me at some point in the near future. He's not as valuable of an all-around player as Nyquist (who will be an insane deal for this year), but he's a legit scorer that seems like he has even more upside than he's shown.

DeKeyser, I don't know. We got him basically for free out of college, and all indications are that he can stick as a Top 4 NHL defenseman. But the type of player he is will be more difficult to evaluate. His stat lines already look better than Jonathan Ericsson's, but if he turned out to be a more durable version of Ericsson at a decent cap hit, I'd consider that a win for us. He's from here and wants to play here, and at age 24, maybe they look to get him signed longer-term earlier than they will with some of these other kids.

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I think that Dekeyser will top out as around the same type of player as Dan Girardi. Which will be good for us.

Do you really see him ever topping out with something similar to Girardi's peripheral stats, though? Even if DD had the extra 10 or so pounds that Girardi has, I'm not sure he'll ever throw a ton of hits.

I really think he's comparable to Marc-Eduard Vlasic - which, coincidentally, would also be good for us.

I'd LOVE for him to add 15-20 points of muscle in the next few seasons and use his weight better, but I'm not sure he will. Now I just wanna see a monster DeKeyser, making strong tape-to-tape passes and hammering the other team's forwards.

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Do you really see him ever topping out with something similar to Girardi's peripheral stats, though? Even if DD had the extra 10 or so pounds that Girardi has, I'm not sure he'll ever throw a ton of hits.

I really think he's comparable to Marc-Eduard Vlasic - which, coincidentally, would also be good for us.

I'd LOVE for him to add 15-20 points of muscle in the next few seasons and use his weight better, but I'm not sure he will. Now I just wanna see a monster DeKeyser, making strong tape-to-tape passes and hammering the other team's forwards.

I'd agree about the hits, but I'd also say that it's hard to gauge his willingness to use the body because he's so light right now. Increase his weight (which will surely happen) and he may well develop that part of his game as he's got the skating ability necessary to be a hitter in the league. I'm convinced his relative inexperience and skinniness keep those hit numbers down (for now).

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Do you really see him ever topping out with something similar to Girardi's peripheral stats, though? Even if DD had the extra 10 or so pounds that Girardi has, I'm not sure he'll ever throw a ton of hits.

I really think he's comparable to Marc-Eduard Vlasic - which, coincidentally, would also be good for us.

I'd LOVE for him to add 15-20 points of muscle in the next few seasons and use his weight better, but I'm not sure he will. Now I just wanna see a monster DeKeyser, making strong tape-to-tape passes and hammering the other team's forwards.

I'd agree about the hits, but I'd also say that it's hard to gauge his willingness to use the body because he's so light right now. Increase his weight (which will surely happen) and he may well develop that part of his game as he's got the skating ability necessary to be a hitter in the league. I'm convinced his relative inexperience and skinniness keep those hit numbers down (for now).

If he tops out as either Vlasic or Girardi that would be fantastic just wait till he bulks up and his hits will arrive.

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Remember when Flip and Kronwall both signed for 5 years, 3 million/yr? At first they didn't seem like super amazing deals but as time went along they were huge bargains. Wouldn't mind that for Dekeyser simply because of term (maybe even less cap hit), Tatar needs to prove himself more but hoping he gets a Kindl type deal

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Remember when Flip and Kronwall both signed for 5 years, 3 million/yr? At first they didn't seem like super amazing deals but as time went along they were huge bargains. Wouldn't mind that for Dekeyser simply because of term (maybe even less cap hit), Tatar needs to prove himself more but hoping he gets a Kindl type deal

Tatar just had a better rookie season than Datsyuk....dafuq?

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Tatar just had a better rookie season than Datsyuk....dafuq?

I've been saying the same thing all summer.

Apparently, Tatar is lazy, arrogant, and one dimensional while Pavel Datsyuk came into the league already developed into a premier two-way forward whom Bowman leaned on heavily to shut down the opposition's best.

He most definitely wasn't an undersized, exclusively offensive, third line forward. Not at all.

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This constant comparison between Tatar and Datsyuk is just silly. Tatar had a great year, he put up very admirable numbers for a rookie. I think he has the potential to be a legitimate top 6 winger, but come on, he is no Pavel f*cking Datsyuk... If Tatar continues at the same pace WHILE being defensively responsible then he might be worthy of being in the same sentence as Pav, but never will Tatar be comparable in any way to one of the best ALL AROUND forwards EVER!

The argument that Tatar should be paid because he had ONE good season is crazy. In Tatar's first year and a half with the Wings he put up 0.505 points per game. In Datsyuk's first three season with the Wings he put up 0.703 points per game. The reason I'm comparing those two time periods is because that was before Datsyuk finally started getting paid. In his first three seasons he made an AAV of $941.6K, then he signed a 2 year, $3.9M, then a 7 year, $6.7M, and now his current 3 year, $7.5...

In my opinion, Tatar should be looking for a 2 year, $1.25M - $1.5M and then he can prove he is worth the money and really get paid after that...

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Saying Tatar's unproven isn't necessarily knocking him. It's just a fact, really. We don't yet know what Tomas Tatar the NHLer truly is, or, maybe more correctly, what he will be. It's a very small sample size.

Another concern - and this isn't Tatar's fault either - is that we have a wealth of up-and-coming young talents, any one of whom might be The Next Great Red Wing. Already we've got Nyquist and Tatar and Sheahan and Jurco looking like they might be Players. So, cost controlling is essential, especially if we're thinking about making a run or two at the Cup in the next three or four years.

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Ya, there is no way you can compare a rookie to a 12 year vet. Who would do that? Especially the best two way forward in the NHL...C'mon!

KRSMITH17, if you take Tatar and Datsyuk and put them as rookies together, they are VERY comparable. When Pav started, he was FAR from the player he is today, he was a 3rd line center playing with Hull and Boyd. He actually had a stigma about him that he couldn't score in the playoffs (he had 15 points in 4 years.) It wasn't until 5 years into his career that he shook that off his back (16 points in 18 games.) And it wasn't until that same year that he got his first votes as a Selke candidate, finishing 20th in voting. No one is saying he is as good as Datsyuk today, what they are saying is Datsyuk started out similarly and it is not out of the realm of possibility to foreshadow Tatar maybe taking same path to greatness. No one knew in 2002 that Pavel would be the player he is today. They knew he had potential and showed some flash of something special, but to become a near Hart trophy winner, nobody could see that. Tatar could very well be as good as, or even better than Pavel after he is in the league 12 years from now. Nobody knows...but it isn't way off base to compare both of them as rookies. That would be like comparing Pavel in 2002 with Fedorov in 2002.

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Ok, I understand now Leftwinger. Because the "potential" is there that Tatar can be as good or better than Datsyuk he should be signed to a 5 year 4 million dollar contract. Sorry for my ignorance, it all makes sense now...

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Ok, I understand now Leftwinger. Because the "potential" is there that Tatar can be as good or better than Datsyuk he should be signed to a 5 year 4 million dollar contract. Sorry for my ignorance, it all makes sense now...

Nobody has advocated a 5 year, 4 million dollar deal for Tatar...including Tatar himself who said he's likely sign a two or three year deal. Also, nobody said that Tatar is a better player than Datsyuk. The comparison was made because someone said Tatar "needed to prove himself", which is silly. He exceeded expectations in his rookie year (as did Nyquist).

The only comment definitively made with regards to a Pavel/Tatar comparison, is that Tatar just had a better rookie season than Datsyuk...which is objectively true.

Edited by kipwinger

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Tatar had a good rookie year. But he's still unproven so I'm not sure why people think he should get his payday now. He'll get a prove it contract and that's what's best for both sides.

As far as people comparing Tats and Pavs rookie years, it honestly means nothing. Peter Mueller had a comparable rookie year to Anze Kopitar, who both had had better years than Patrice Bergeron, and they all had worse years than Dany Heatley. Now two of them are scrubs and 2 are elite forwards. I'm glad Tatar had a good rookie year, now he has to prove he can continue to do that and improve.

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Having had a better rookie season than Datsyuk's rookie season is absolutely meaningless, not sure why we are discussing it. Several players in NHL history have had better or even much better rookie seasons than Datsyuk and have gone on to have careers nowhere near the career Datsyuk has had. The opposite is true as well...there have been players that have had worse rookie years than Datsyuk and have gone on to have better careers than him. It is really a silly comparison.

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