• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
sherwood40

Next Number to be retired

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

He was ahead of his era probably because African-American players were barred from playing in the same league as him.

He would have been ahead of those guys too.

In any case, any average athlete today would dominate if they were transported via time machine to the past. That doesn't make a Dan Cleary better than a Howie Morenz or a backup QB better than a Johnny Unitas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He would have been ahead of those guys too.

In any case, any average athlete today would dominate if they were transported via time machine to the past. That doesn't make a Dan Cleary better than a Howie Morenz or a backup QB better than a Johnny Unitas.

:bye:

He would have been ahead of those guys too.

In any case, any average athlete today would dominate if they were transported via time machine to the past. That doesn't make a Dan Cleary better than a Howie Morenz or a backup QB better than a Johnny Unitas.

I don't believe that for a minute. Many superstars of the past would dominate today's average players on an even playing field.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:bye:

I don't believe that for a minute. Many superstars of the past would dominate today's average players on an even playing field.

Well, athletes today are bigger, stronger and better trained and nutritioned. So yes, I do think the average athlete would dominate if transported to the past via time machine.

Oh, and everyone knows Babe Ruth was black.

Edited by GMRwings1983

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, athletes today are bigger, stronger and better trained and nutritioned. So yes, I do think the average athlete would dominate if transported to the past via time machine.

Oh, and everyone knows Babe Ruth was black.

Hence why I said in my original post that we have to look at how athletes performed in their era. I don't know what you're trying to argue with me about, other than Babe Ruth not being a fat white cigar smoker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hence why I said in my original post that we have to look at how athletes performed in their era. I don't know what you're trying to argue with me about, other than Babe Ruth not being a fat white cigar smoker.

I don't remember either. It's all Osgood's fault. He causes a lot of debate on these forums. For what it's worth, outside of WIngs fans, not many people see to think Ozzie should be a Hall of Famer or should have his jersey retired. Wings fans saw him play more than other teams' fans did, but that also means Wings fans aren't as likely to be unbiased.

Edited by GMRwings1983

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just read an article on ESPN http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12337757/nhl-play-their-entire-nhl-careers-just-one-team

regarding players paying their entire careers with a team. Funny considering the timing with this thread, here is what it says about Datsyuk:

"Either way, his number will be retired by the Wings and he will go into the Hall of Fame. If there is a lock for this one guy/one team thing, it's Datsyuk. Teammates Niklas Kronwall and Henrik Zetterberg are also very strong candidates."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just read an article on ESPN http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12337757/nhl-play-their-entire-nhl-careers-just-one-team

regarding players paying their entire careers with a team. Funny considering the timing with this thread, here is what it says about Datsyuk:

"Either way, his number will be retired by the Wings and he will go into the Hall of Fame. If there is a lock for this one guy/one team thing, it's Datsyuk. Teammates Niklas Kronwall and Henrik Zetterberg are also very strong candidates."

As much as they could be right, it's espn and they are just speculating like it's a fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just read an article on ESPN http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12337757/nhl-play-their-entire-nhl-careers-just-one-team

regarding players paying their entire careers with a team. Funny considering the timing with this thread, here is what it says about Datsyuk:

"Either way, his number will be retired by the Wings and he will go into the Hall of Fame. If there is a lock for this one guy/one team thing, it's Datsyuk. Teammates Niklas Kronwall and Henrik Zetterberg are also very strong candidates."

I think 13 gets retired one day. I certainly couldn't see anyone else wear it again....

I also think that 40 has an even better chance than 13. I think it's probably a lock if Z adds a cup or two under his captaincy.

Kronwall seems like a bit of a stretch to me though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you retire 13 and not 40 if you're the Red Wings? Seriously, Datsyuk has scored at a .97 ppg, two cups, and three Selkes. Zetterberg has .94 ppg, one cup, is the captain, and has a Conn Smythe. Zetterberg also has better playoff numbers.

I honestly don't think either of these two make it into the rafters, and after digging into it, one reason is because it's almost impossible to put one up without the other one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lindsay played in a different era. I talked about this earlier when comparing Reed Larsson's numbers with Pronovost's.

Neither Datsyuk nor Zetterberg are as highly regarded by hockey experts in all time ranking as Ted Lindsay. They're not even close. Lindsay is one of the greatest left wingers of all time. They recently renamed the Pearson award to the Lindsay award.

^But isn't the consensus that the reason Zetterberg is not as highly regarded is because the media rides on certain players moreso? This isn't the 1950s or 60s where there were not only less teams but only Montreal, Detroit or Toronto that you related hockey with. Times have changed where theres 30 teams. It's a matter of perception and a matter of reality. Zetterberg has been one of the most underrated players in the league since he came in. Datsyuk USED to be underrated for the longest time until (I wanna say around 2008/2009?) when the media realized just how slick he is and hence he started gaining more recognition. The point is; in the new NHL certain players will always be seen as "generational" while others won't even though they are deserving. I think Datsyuk in his prime was >>> Crosby. I also think Zetterbergs leadership >>>> Toews and Crosby. Except. The rest of the league doesnt because at the end of the day Z was a 7th round pick and Crosby was a 1st rounder; and ya always gotta appreciate that 1st rounder.

Additionally other exampls of media bias: Who talks about Zetterberg's playoff numbers? Just FSN Detroit. Who talks about Crosby's or Toews wud be. cud be, shud be crap that they have yet to accomplish? ALL MEDIA OUTLETS!

The media bias clouds our perception. I think Z and D in their prime were much better pairs than anyone out there. Including Malkin and Crosby. Z and D were/are complete players. Not many can say that about other pairs.

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^But isn't the consensus that the reason Zetterberg is not as highly regarded is because the media rides on certain players moreso? This isn't the 1950s or 60s where there were not only less teams but only Montreal, Detroit or Toronto that you related hockey with. Times have changed where theres 30 teams. It's a matter of perception and a matter of reality. Zetterberg has been one of the most underrated players in the league since he came in. Datsyuk USED to be underrated for the longest time until (I wanna say around 2008/2009?) when the media realized just how slick he is and hence he started gaining more recognition. The point is; in the new NHL certain players will always be seen as "generational" while others won't even though they are deserving. I think Datsyuk in his prime was >>> Crosby. I also think Zetterbergs leadership >>>> Toews and Crosby. Except. The rest of the league doesnt because at the end of the day Z was a 7th round pick and Crosby was a 1st rounder; and ya always gotta appreciate that 1st rounder.

Additionally other exampls of media bias: Who talks about Zetterberg's playoff numbers? Just FSN Detroit. Who talks about Crosby's or Toews wud be. cud be, shud be crap that they have yet to accomplish? ALL MEDIA OUTLETS!

The media bias clouds our perception. I think Z and D in their prime were much better pairs than anyone out there. Including Malkin and Crosby. Z and D were/are complete players. Not many can say that about other pairs.

Crosby and Malkin are both to 10 all time in playoff PPG. I bet you didn't know that. And as you probably do know, this isn't an era known for its high scoring.

Anyway, I only brought up Lindsay because I don't think Datsyuk or Zetterberg are on that level. Whether their jerseys get retired may not necessarily depend on how they're perceived as compared to a Lindsay or Yzerman. We might have new ownership by then with new standards. But I would have no problem with either of those players getting their jerseys retired.

Now if Kronwall gets his jersey retired, then hockey should cease to exist in Detroit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly don't think either of these two make it into the rafters, one reason is because it's almost impossible to put one up without the other one.

^ This.

Zetterberg and Pav have been associated with each other too much. If one goes up and the other doesn't that could cause a lot of controversy. Sad as it is, their pairing is their own demise in terms of jersey retirement XD. Who knows, lets hope for the best, these guys may not be heavily recognized around the US but Detroit's got nothing but love for em!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ This.

Zetterberg and Pav have been associated with each other too much. If one goes up and the other doesn't that could cause a lot of controversy. Sad as it is, their pairing is their own demise in terms of jersey retirement XD. Who knows, lets hope for the best, these guys may not be heavily recognized around the US but Detroit's got nothing but love for em!

I'm posting this diatribe in response to your post, but I'm not aiming it at you. You're didn't do the thing I'm about to rage about, you just referenced it at the bottom of your post.

Can we please stop with the "nobody recognizes Dats and Z's greatness" crap already? It's absurd. The Red Wings, and their two stars, get their just due ALL the time. A couple years ago TSN listed Datsyuk as the best player in the world. Wayne Gretzky said he thought our two stars were the best in the business around that same time. They're both consistently ranked near the top of the league in fantasy player rankings, and I've personally seen everyone from Puck Daddy, to Doc Emrick, to Mike Milbury, to P.J. Stock, to Ron McLean singing their praises. Even Don "I hate Foreigners" Cherry has been nothing but complimentary of our guys.

This is just more of this wannabe victim crap that I can't stand about some of our fans. The league/refs/Bettman/media don't have it out for us. We're universally considered the finest organization, with some of the finest athletes, in all of professional sports...not just hockey. It's like some fans think we're not credible if we're not constantly facing some sort of faux adversity. There's nothing wrong with being dominant AND being recognized for it...this isn't an inspirational sports film.

Add "the media doens't give Dats and Z credit" to the list of dumb ass cliches that Red Wings fans say. Right below "Our fans are spoiled by success" and right above "the league wanted Pittsburgh to win".

Rant over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

0% chance Datsyuk and Zetterberg Don't get their numbers retired.

I'm sick of all this "We're the Red Wings, and our standards of retiring numbers is so much higher than anyone else" Crap! The reason our numbers retired are few and far between, is because we fail to recognize our pre production line cups, and we were absolutely dreadful for about 30 years! It's just now that our guys from our good teams are retired, and have had lengthy careers. Excuse me, but hank and Pavel have both spent long, eventful, trophy winning, cup winning careers with this franchise. It's not like we've had a plethora of players winning selkes and Byngs and Conn Smythes left and right, but they wern't "Elite enough to sit up there with Gordie and Steve" Shut up with that Garbage. We've just been terrible. Now that the 90's teams are all retired, it's a new decision as to who gets up there and who doesn't. Hank and Pavel make it. Fedorov, will most likely make it. Osgood deserves it. Sorry, he's never had a losing season, even with the garbage Islanders and the Blues when they wern't very good. He started a cup run, and absolutely put the team on his back in another. He's amongst the all time leaders in every major goaltending stat, and even higher when it comes to playoff stats. It's not like we've always had goalies like this that "Arn't elite enough to sit next to Sawchuck"

News Flash, Sid Abel didn't have a Gordie Howe or Steve Yzerman like career either. Played 9 full seasons with the team, won 3 Stanley cups, won a hart trophy.

Fedorov, wow, sounds insanely similar. But add the Selkes, and an extra year or two.

Both players iconic of a very successful championship era. Both deserve to have their numbers retired.

The Red Wings don't have a lot of numbers in the rafters because we don't have this great, long history of elite players, like some Red Wing fans like to pretend we did. If Kronwall plays 15-20 years with us as a number 1 D-man, then yes, that qualifies him to get his number retired. No, he is not Lidstrom. But you don't exactly get 15-20 year number 1 defencemen every year in the draft.

Other than Lidstrom and Kelly, who are our best defencemen? Chelios? Reed Larson? Chaisson? Coffey? Murphy? Vlad? Pronovost? All made impacts in detroit, But none a big enough impact for a long enough period of time to be considered retiring. I agreed with "honouring" Vlad, and make it official in some way. Hell, I wouldn't be upset if they DID retire it. No one's going to ever wear it again anyway, might as well. We've seen jerseys get retired due to deaths during a career, lets be happy it wasn't that serious, but give him the same honour.

40

13

91

30

55

16

6

Look at the Canadiens. A legendary player is a legendary player. They've retired a million numbers, and all it does is show every team that walks into that building how amazing their history has been. Our History has been amazing for the last 25 years. Let's not be too jaded to appreciate it.

Edited by Tane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

0% chance Datsyuk and Zetterberg Don't get their numbers retired.

I'm sick of all this "We're the Red Wings, and our standards of retiring numbers is so much higher than anyone else" Crap! The reason our numbers retired are few and far between, is because we fail to recognize our pre production line cups, and we were absolutely dreadful for about 30 years! It's just now that our guys from our good teams are retired, and have had lengthy careers. Excuse me, but hank and Pavel have both spent long, eventful, trophy winning, cup winning careers with this franchise. It's not like we've had a plethora of players winning selkes and Byngs and Conn Smythes left and right, but they wern't "Elite enough to sit up there with Gordie and Steve" Shut up with that Garbage. We've just been terrible. Now that the 90's teams are all retired, it's a new decision as to who gets up there and who doesn't. Hank and Pavel make it. Fedorov, will most likely make it. Osgood deserves it. Sorry, he's never had a losing season, even with the garbage Islanders and the Blues when they wern't very good. He started a cup run, and absolutely put the team on his back in another. He's amongst the all time leaders in every major goaltending stat, and even higher when it comes to playoff stats. It's not like we've always had goalies like this that "Arn't elite enough to sit next to Sawchuck"

News Flash, Sid Abel didn't have a Gordie Howe or Steve Yzerman like career either. Played 9 full seasons with the team, won 3 Stanley cups, won a hart trophy.

Fedorov, wow, sounds insanely similar. But add the Selkes, and an extra year or two.

Both players iconic of a very successful championship era. Both deserve to have their numbers retired.

The Red Wings don't have a lot of numbers in the rafters because we don't have this great, long history of elite players, like some Red Wing fans like to pretend we did. If Kronwall plays 15-20 years with us as a number 1 D-man, then yes, that qualifies him to get his number retired. No, he is not Lidstrom. But you don't exactly get 15-20 year number 1 defencemen every year in the draft.

Other than Lidstrom and Kelly, who are our best defencemen? Chelios? Reed Larson? Chaisson? Coffey? Murphy? Vlad? Pronovost? All made impacts in detroit, But none a big enough impact for a long enough period of time to be considered retiring. I agreed with "honouring" Vlad, and make it official in some way. Hell, I wouldn't be upset if they DID retire it. No one's going to ever wear it again anyway, might as well. We've seen jerseys get retired due to deaths during a career, lets be happy it wasn't that serious, but give him the same honour.

40

13

91

30

55

16

6

Look at the Canadiens. A legendary player is a legendary player. They've retired a million numbers, and all it does is show every team that walks into that building how amazing their history has been. Our History has been amazing for the last 25 years. Let's not be too jaded to appreciate it.

0% chance Datsyuk and Zetterberg Don't get their numbers retired.

I'm sick of all this "We're the Red Wings, and our standards of retiring numbers is so much higher than anyone else" Crap! The reason our numbers retired are few and far between, is because we fail to recognize our pre production line cups, and we were absolutely dreadful for about 30 years! It's just now that our guys from our good teams are retired, and have had lengthy careers. Excuse me, but hank and Pavel have both spent long, eventful, trophy winning, cup winning careers with this franchise. It's not like we've had a plethora of players winning selkes and Byngs and Conn Smythes left and right, but they wern't "Elite enough to sit up there with Gordie and Steve" Shut up with that Garbage. We've just been terrible. Now that the 90's teams are all retired, it's a new decision as to who gets up there and who doesn't. Hank and Pavel make it. Fedorov, will most likely make it. Osgood deserves it. Sorry, he's never had a losing season, even with the garbage Islanders and the Blues when they wern't very good. He started a cup run, and absolutely put the team on his back in another. He's amongst the all time leaders in every major goaltending stat, and even higher when it comes to playoff stats. It's not like we've always had goalies like this that "Arn't elite enough to sit next to Sawchuck"

News Flash, Sid Abel didn't have a Gordie Howe or Steve Yzerman like career either. Played 9 full seasons with the team, won 3 Stanley cups, won a hart trophy.

Fedorov, wow, sounds insanely similar. But add the Selkes, and an extra year or two.

Both players iconic of a very successful championship era. Both deserve to have their numbers retired.

The Red Wings don't have a lot of numbers in the rafters because we don't have this great, long history of elite players, like some Red Wing fans like to pretend we did. If Kronwall plays 15-20 years with us as a number 1 D-man, then yes, that qualifies him to get his number retired. No, he is not Lidstrom. But you don't exactly get 15-20 year number 1 defencemen every year in the draft.

Other than Lidstrom and Kelly, who are our best defencemen? Chelios? Reed Larson? Chaisson? Coffey? Murphy? Vlad? Pronovost? All made impacts in detroit, But none a big enough impact for a long enough period of time to be considered retiring. I agreed with "honouring" Vlad, and make it official in some way. Hell, I wouldn't be upset if they DID retire it. No one's going to ever wear it again anyway, might as well. We've seen jerseys get retired due to deaths during a career, lets be happy it wasn't that serious, but give him the same honour.

40

13

91

30

55

16

6

Look at the Canadiens. A legendary player is a legendary player. They've retired a million numbers, and all it does is show every team that walks into that building how amazing their history has been. Our History has been amazing for the last 25 years. Let's not be too jaded to appreciate it.

I agree with some of the points, but disagree its that easy to say feds gets it retired, had he Stayed with the wings it'd be a no brainer.

And I highly doubt Kronwall gets his retired, he's an average #1 nothing special.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

0% chance Datsyuk and Zetterberg Don't get their numbers retired.

I'm sick of all this "We're the Red Wings, and our standards of retiring numbers is so much higher than anyone else" Crap! The reason our numbers retired are few and far between, is because we fail to recognize our pre production line cups, and we were absolutely dreadful for about 30 years! It's just now that our guys from our good teams are retired, and have had lengthy careers. Excuse me, but hank and Pavel have both spent long, eventful, trophy winning, cup winning careers with this franchise. It's not like we've had a plethora of players winning selkes and Byngs and Conn Smythes left and right, but they wern't "Elite enough to sit up there with Gordie and Steve" Shut up with that Garbage. We've just been terrible. Now that the 90's teams are all retired, it's a new decision as to who gets up there and who doesn't. Hank and Pavel make it. Fedorov, will most likely make it. Osgood deserves it. Sorry, he's never had a losing season, even with the garbage Islanders and the Blues when they wern't very good. He started a cup run, and absolutely put the team on his back in another. He's amongst the all time leaders in every major goaltending stat, and even higher when it comes to playoff stats. It's not like we've always had goalies like this that "Arn't elite enough to sit next to Sawchuck"

News Flash, Sid Abel didn't have a Gordie Howe or Steve Yzerman like career either. Played 9 full seasons with the team, won 3 Stanley cups, won a hart trophy.

Fedorov, wow, sounds insanely similar. But add the Selkes, and an extra year or two.

Both players iconic of a very successful championship era. Both deserve to have their numbers retired.

The Red Wings don't have a lot of numbers in the rafters because we don't have this great, long history of elite players, like some Red Wing fans like to pretend we did. If Kronwall plays 15-20 years with us as a number 1 D-man, then yes, that qualifies him to get his number retired. No, he is not Lidstrom. But you don't exactly get 15-20 year number 1 defencemen every year in the draft.

Other than Lidstrom and Kelly, who are our best defencemen? Chelios? Reed Larson? Chaisson? Coffey? Murphy? Vlad? Pronovost? All made impacts in detroit, But none a big enough impact for a long enough period of time to be considered retiring. I agreed with "honouring" Vlad, and make it official in some way. Hell, I wouldn't be upset if they DID retire it. No one's going to ever wear it again anyway, might as well. We've seen jerseys get retired due to deaths during a career, lets be happy it wasn't that serious, but give him the same honour.

40

13

91

30

55

16

6

Look at the Canadiens. A legendary player is a legendary player. They've retired a million numbers, and all it does is show every team that walks into that building how amazing their history has been. Our History has been amazing for the last 25 years. Let's not be too jaded to appreciate it.

So you wouldn't retire Kelly's number?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude, Mathie Dandenault transported back to the 1950's would be the best player in the NHL. Doesn't mean he's better all time than Richard or Howe. Babe Ruth is the best baseball player of all time, precisely because he was ahead of his era and better at his era than anyone else at theirs.

post-23414-0-96773300-1424318915_thumb.jpg

I'm sorry but if Mathieu Dandenault and this mauler go into the corner for a loose puck the only thing Dandy is coming out with is a broken bone.

I understand that nutrition and training argument is universally accepted as fact and I agree with it. (I know you were half joking about this too)

However most players today don't have that much muscle and Grandpa strength.

People like Rocky Marciano (who stood eye to eye with Joe

Pesci) had all time strength and could rock a 300lb punching bag during training harder than most fighters ever.

I just don't like when legends get diminished by the bigger faster argument.

Babe Ruth has been getting a lot of heat on social media lately for being out of shape and playing against inferior competition but I would like a Major Leaguer to try and crack homers with that redwood tree he used.

I fully understand that I'm on sketchy ground posting a shirtless Guy twice on LGW too btw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

I'm sorry but if Mathieu Dandenault and this mauler go into the corner for a loose puck the only thing Dandy is coming out with is a broken bone.

I understand that nutrition and training argument is universally accepted as fact and I agree with it. (I know you were half joking about this too)

However most players today don't have that much muscle and Grandpa strength.

People like Rocky Marciano (who stood eye to eye with Joe

Pesci) had all time strength and could rock a 300lb punching bag during training harder than most fighters ever.

I just don't like when legends get diminished by the bigger faster argument.

Babe Ruth has been getting a lot of heat on social media lately for being out of shape and playing against inferior competition but I would like a Major Leaguer to try and crack homers with that redwood tree he used.

I fully understand that I'm on sketchy ground posting a shirtless Guy twice on LGW too btw.

I'm about 70% convinced that's photo shopped. I can't prove it, since I have almost no technical knowledge whatsoever. But it just feels fake. Those are like, Hulk Hogan's arms or something. I'm pretty sure, if Gordie Howe was that big, at least one other picture of him would show verify it. But that's the only one I've ever seen like it. It's got to be a fan's photoshop. If it was Brian McGrattan I'd know exactly where to place the blame.

Here's one of Gordie and Jean Beliveau in the 50's which seems way more reasonable to me...

4541955.jpg?size=640x420

Edited by kipwinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm about 70% convinced that's photo shopped. I can't prove it, since I have almost no technical knowledge whatsoever. But it just feels fake. Those are like, Hulk Hogan's arms or something. I'm pretty sure, if Gordie Howe was that big, at least one other picture of him would show verify it. But that's the only one I've ever seen like it. It's got to be a fan's photoshop. If it was Brian McGrattan I'd know exactly where to place the blame.

Hahaha I wasn't expecting that response but I never look for things like that, freaking internet man.

I didn't think he was that jacked either from old video I've seen.

I'll feel a bit dumb if it's fake.

Edited by Desert Rat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hahaha I wasn't expecting that response but I never look for things like that, freaking internet man.

I didn't think he was that jacked either from old video I've seen but he did end a guy's career with a punch.

I'll feel a bit dumb if it's fake.

Don't feel dumb. I have seen that picture a ton of times and still have no idea. This is definitely not the first time I've compared that picture to others of Gordie. I've concluded that it's one of three things...1) It's fake, 2) the camera adds 75 lbs. of lean muscle mass, 3) for a couple years in the middle of his career, Gordie Howe was indeed a body double for Lou Ferrigno.

I have not made a final determination on which one yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't feel dumb. I have seen that picture a ton of times and still have no idea. This is definitely not the first time I've compared that picture to others of Gordie. I've concluded that it's one of three things...1) It's fake, 2) the camera adds 75 lbs. of lean muscle mass, 3) for a couple years in the middle of his career, Gordie Howe was indeed a body double for Lou Ferrigno.

I have not made a final determination on which one yet.

Or

4. At one point in time he was taking steroids, most likely to heal from an injury while playing through it.

Which makes sense to me, since steroids weren't banned, and they are used in healing.

Its just a possibility, honestly we might never know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or

4. At one point in time he was taking steroids, most likely to heal from an injury while playing through it.

Which makes sense to me, since steroids weren't banned, and they are used in healing.

Its just a possibility, honestly we might never know.

You know, I legitimately never thought about that. It's entirely possible. I think Desert Rat got it right calling him a Mauler though. If that picture is real, good god.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this