Rivalred 630 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 We don't need him to. We just need him to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vpTjRvQ0gg Players and teams in the AHL are giving him too much time won't happen in the NHL, he needs to play big and learn to create space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukianDekes 2,428 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Players and teams in the AHL are giving him too much time won't happen in the NHL, he needs to play big and learn to create space And how exactly does that take away he has an absolute rocket. There is a lot of one timers and face off one timers that went in and have nothing to do with space. Ovi does pretty good with his one timers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Do some of you believe Pulkinnen is a waste of a roster spot or something? There's very little to worry about here, we have the leading AHL scorer playing for us for dirt cheap and he isn't relied upon for scoring at this point, but it is is probably expected if he is to stay in the lineup Now! NOW! NOW! YESTERDAY! That is what people want. People want him to be this fully formed ideal NHL version of Pulkkinen. After what? A total of 34 games played in the NHL? Its the same way that people want Mantha to be EVERYTHING! ALREADY! in the AHL. It's just ridiculous. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 And how exactly does that take away he has an absolute rocket. There is a lot of one timers and face off one timers that went in and have nothing to do with space. Ovi does pretty good with his one timers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Elon Musk has many rockets also but many have failed.... He has a lot of potential but he needs to learn how to release quicker or get open as he wont have that much time in the NHL to wind up and shoot like he has in the AHL most of the time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Jurco - Sheahan - Pulkkinen has the ability to be an awesome line! I always fill out my line combos that way, I would love to see it and love to see them excel into the next level together! 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Elon Musk has many rockets also but many have failed.... He has a lot of potential but he needs to learn how to release quicker or get open as he wont have that much time in the NHL to wind up and shoot like he has in the AHL most of the time First. Nice rocket reference. Second. Give him some time, man. Just because he hasn't figured it out with 34 games under his belt in the NHL doesn't mean he won't figure out how to get it off. 1 DatsyukianDekes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 First. Nice rocket reference. Second. Give him some time, man. Just because he hasn't figured it out with 34 games under his belt in the NHL doesn't mean he won't figure out how to get it off. Fully agree... Just was a rough 34 games to see him try to figure it out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Its hard for a player like him to try and figure out his scoring touch when he is delegated to 4th line minutes...he only average just over 9 minutes a game in those 34 games, and if he takes 15-20 shifts a game, that's about :30 a shift average. No way he gets that little under Blashill, unless he fails to produce with more icetime... 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Do some of you believe Pulkinnen is a waste of a roster spot or something? There's very little to worry about here, we have the leading AHL scorer playing for us for dirt cheap and he isn't relied upon for scoring at this point, but it is is probably expected if he is to stay in the lineup Def not a waste of roster spot based on the salary and his potential for scoring. We're merely discussing (in other thread moreso) whether or not he will be able to bloom in the NHL level. Additionally I have bias towards 2-way players in the current NHL and have held a point that he should try and get better at his defensive game so he isn't a liability if he wants to push for top 6 eventually. That's just my personal opinion though. Others here are arguing that he won't be able to take the slap shots like he does in the AHL because he can't create space or is weak on the puck against NHL D-man (as witnessed in the first 34 NHL games he played). Unfortunately a lot of Pulk fan boys are taking these statements as some sort of anti-Pulk movement. It's as though it's blasphemous to NOT be a Pulk fan boy. Somehow it's that black and white. Apparently it's a sin to be skeptical and/or analytical. Now! NOW! NOW! YESTERDAY! That is what people want. People want him to be this fully formed ideal NHL version of Pulkkinen. After what? A total of 34 games played in the NHL? Its the same way that people want Mantha to be EVERYTHING! ALREADY! in the AHL. It's just ridiculous. Meh not really. It's obvious that he won't hit his prime for a while. To think otherwise is quite idiotic. But the reality is that the whole 1 dimensional excuse more often than not doesnt work in todays NHL. That's all I'm arguing. I'm arguing against the excuses being made for him. People should face the reality that Pulk has weaknesses instead of making excuses. I'm sure Pulk himself knows the issues and I guarantee you he plans on working on them. There is no "NOW NOW NOW, YESTERDAY" like you say. Not that black and white. Edited July 23, 2015 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nawein 324 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Its hard for a player like him to try and figure out his scoring touch when he is delegated to 4th line minutes...he only average just over 9 minutes a game in those 34 games, and if he takes 15-20 shifts a game, that's about :30 a shift average. No way he gets that little under Blashill, unless he fails to produce with more icetime... How do you feel about Jurco? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) How do you feel about Jurco?Bring it up in his thread and we will talk about itTongue and cheek, Jurco needs to do more with the chances he has been given Edited July 23, 2015 by Rivalred Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukianDekes 2,428 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Fully agree... Just was a rough 34 games to see him try to figure it out I think he was trying to figure it out while the Wings were in a nose dive. To start the season he should be in a much better place with team playing to their standards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) naewin, I feel Jurco was way underused last season. I also feel that given consitant 3rd line minutes, and possibly given a shot at putting his bigger body in front of the net on the 2nd PP unit, he too can be a 20+ goal scorer... Not sure if was reported by Chuck Pleiness just tweeted that Jurco is NOT close to signing a two year deal, PLUS he just hired a new agent which could prolong things... I wish I had the ability to cut and paste on here, but he tweeted it and Malik re-tweeted it as well. Edited July 23, 2015 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 First. Nice rocket reference. Second. Give him some time, man. Just because he hasn't figured it out with 34 games under his belt in the NHL doesn't mean he won't figure out how to get it off. Nobody is saying he won't, some of are saying it's not a guarantee. I've seen a lot of guys who blow up the minors and are horrible at the top level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 Def not a waste of roster spot based on the salary and his potential for scoring. We're merely discussing (in other thread moreso) whether or not he will be able to bloom in the NHL level. Additionally I have bias towards 2-way players in the current NHL and have held a point that he should try and get better at his defensive game so he isn't a liability if he wants to push for top 6 eventually. That's just my personal opinion though. Others here are arguing that he won't be able to take the slap shots like he does in the AHL because he can't create space or is weak on the puck against NHL D-man (as witnessed in the first 34 NHL games he played). Unfortunately a lot of Pulk fan boys are taking these statements as some sort of anti-Pulk movement. It's as though it's blasphemous to NOT be a Pulk fan boy. Somehow it's that black and white. Apparently it's a sin to be skeptical and/or analytical. ... But the reality is that the whole 1 dimensional excuse more often than not doesnt work in todays NHL. That's all I'm arguing. I'm arguing against the excuses being made for him. People should face the reality that Pulk has weaknesses instead of making excuses. I'm sure Pulk himself knows the issues and I guarantee you he plans on working on them. .... The two sides of this debate probably aren't as far apart as the arguing might look. It's just easier to argue against an exaggerated version of the opposing opinion. Like you're doing here. Histrionics are fun. I don't think anyone is making excuses, just disagreeing with your assessment of him and/or what is required to be a successful player.Even those saying 'who cares if he's one dimensional" I'm sure only mean that it'd be fine if all he's ever good at is scoring goals. Not that lacking a complete two-way game is not a weakness nor that he shouldn't work to be as good as he can in other areas. There are plenty of effective players in the NHL who aren't that good defensively. The Wings are fortunate in that almost all of our forwards are pretty solid (or better) defensively, but that just means that we can afford a few who are less so. Would he be a star, team-leader, next-Datsyuk? Not very likely, but he could be a valuable and effective secondary scorer. And some of us disagree with how one-dimensional he is anyway. He'd probably be a liability against top competition right now, but given a bit of time I don't think so. No more so that Tatar or Nyquist are now at any rate. And his offensive game is much more well-rounded than those saying he is just a slapshot contend. In the AHL he is a dynamic offensive producer. He creates his own opportunuties, not wholly unlike Tatar, Nyquist, Zetterberg, etc. He's not just a product of defensive ineptitude, weak goaltending, and teammates feeding him one-timers. If that was true, every decent player would light up the AHL. Can he figure out how to do it in the NHL? Let's see. Let's see, before we conclude that he can't. And for all this talk that he can't create space or get open or get his shot off...and it's true he does need to improve in that respect, and should as he gets used to the competition level...but even now he shoots at a higher rate than anyone on our team, higher than most of the league in fact. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 Most of those goals he scored in that clip would have beaten most NHL goalies. What a cannon!.. No, they wouldn't. Either the defense would have shut down the shot or the goalie would have made an easy save because he was in better position. The two sides of this debate probably aren't as far apart as the arguing might look. It's just easier to argue against an exaggerated version of the opposing opinion. Like you're doing here. Histrionics are fun. I don't think anyone is making excuses, just disagreeing with your assessment of him and/or what is required to be a successful player.Even those saying 'who cares if he's one dimensional" I'm sure only mean that it'd be fine if all he's ever good at is scoring goals. Not that lacking a complete two-way game is not a weakness nor that he shouldn't work to be as good as he can in other areas. There are plenty of effective players in the NHL who aren't that good defensively. The Wings are fortunate in that almost all of our forwards are pretty solid (or better) defensively, but that just means that we can afford a few who are less so. Would he be a star, team-leader, next-Datsyuk? Not very likely, but he could be a valuable and effective secondary scorer. And some of us disagree with how one-dimensional he is anyway. He'd probably be a liability against top competition right now, but given a bit of time I don't think so. No more so that Tatar or Nyquist are now at any rate. And his offensive game is much more well-rounded than those saying he is just a slapshot contend. In the AHL he is a dynamic offensive producer. He creates his own opportunuties, not wholly unlike Tatar, Nyquist, Zetterberg, etc. He's not just a product of defensive ineptitude, weak goaltending, and teammates feeding him one-timers. If that was true, every decent player would light up the AHL. Can he figure out how to do it in the NHL? Let's see. Let's see, before we conclude that he can't. And for all this talk that he can't create space or get open or get his shot off...and it's true he does need to improve in that respect, and should as he gets used to the competition level...but even now he shoots at a higher rate than anyone on our team, higher than most of the league in fact. those players are 3rd line wingers. some people expect/want him playing 18+ minutes a night on the top line where he'd be abused by Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin et. al. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 Yeah they would. Goals everytime. No time to react. 1 DatsyukianDekes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 The Hockey News @TheHockeyNews 2m2 minutes ago Red Wings’ Jurco says two-year deal close, report claims otherwise http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/red-wings-jurco-says-two-year-deal-close-report-claims-otherwise/ … 0 retweets WHO TO BELIEVE??!?!?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 unless that report is from ken holland, I'd take jurco's word for it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 The two sides of this debate probably aren't as far apart as the arguing might look. It's just easier to argue against an exaggerated version of the opposing opinion. Like you're doing here. Histrionics are fun. There are plenty of effective players in the NHL who aren't that good defensively. And some of us disagree with how one-dimensional he is anyway. He'd probably be a liability against top competition right now, but given a bit of time I don't think so. No more so that Tatar or Nyquist are now at any rate. He's not just a product of defensive ineptitude, weak goaltending, and teammates feeding him one-timers. If that was true, every decent player would light up the AHL. Can he figure out how to do it in the NHL? Let's see. Let's see, before we conclude that he can't. When the opposing side makes exaggerating comments' it's quite easy to point out actually. So you're right histrionics are fun. You're right, there are plenty that aren't good defensively but more often than not they tend to be better at puck battles than Pulks was in some of the games he played. St. Louis, Lupul, Semin, Gaborik come to mind. He was weak on the puck, needs to work on that. You mention the liablity issue that's the same thing I've said so we can agree on that. He could be a liablity on top 6 and needs to work on that aka needs to be stronger on puck and be able to win battles. He had a hard time doing that on the bottom 6. It will be interesting to see how it plays out this upcoming season. Next bold point- I disagree, with a slapshot like his and ability to score against the AHL goalies, he's at a much higher advantage than a lot of other AHL players to shine at that level. I don't think any AHL player can light up the AHL with being fed one timers, I think Pulk had a huge advantage in his shot. It's the type that AHL goalies and a lot in the NHL have a hard time reacting to. The only difference is in the NHL, you come some elite defense in front of you blocking shots or knocking you down. See how much easier it is when you can keep a level head when you disagree and debate? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 I honestly feel Jurco can be at least a part time top 6 guy. Throughout his career, he has shown that he has a scoring touch (until Babcock put him on the 4th line with grinders that is.) Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, if he proves himself consistent enough to keep at least 3rd line minutes he should be able to prove that he can top 20 goals. I also mentioned that he could possibly become a net front presence on the 2nd PP unit (like Abby on the 1st.) I think that he has a big enough body (heck even Homer was too big) and good enough hands (especially from some of the vids I've watched of him) that he could get some good deflections and garbage type goals there. I sure hope that he is close to signing a deal and a 2 year deal would be awesome! For him, I he can net 20+ goals for two seasons, his raise would be more significant, and for Holland because it gives him a little cap relief to re-sign the RFA's next July. Thank you MOD's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingsRox 614 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 Semin signs with Candiens for $1.1m, 1 year term. http://www.tsn.ca/canadiens-sign-f-semin-to-one-year-1-1m-deal-1.335588 Kenny, we could have done that, couldn't we? With Dats and Z's leadership in the locker room, they could have gotten his lazy arse back to a respectable performance level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 Semin signs with Candiens for $1.1m, 1 year term. http://www.tsn.ca/canadiens-sign-f-semin-to-one-year-1-1m-deal-1.335588 Kenny, we could have done that, couldn't we? With Dats and Z's leadership in the locker room, they could have gotten his lazy arse back to a respectable performance level. This is already being discussed in the Free Agent thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 Where would we put him? Jurco has a spot and Pulkkimania will be running wild. Richards is here. Even with Datsyuk's injury, we're set. 2 e_prime and DatsyukianDekes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted July 24, 2015 We had room to add one veteran forward (barely). Richards > semin 3 e_prime, DatsyukianDekes and PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites