Jurco injured

[marcaractac 3,963]

In the end, the only thing that will piss me off is if Holland wastes protection on Hank and Kronwall. Which he will no doubt do if the Wings manage to make the playoffs this season. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

I think he will protect Zetterberg and Kronwall out of "loyalty", regardless of whether or not we make the playoffs...

I might consider protecting Zetterberg depending on what players are in play by the time the expansion draft roles around, but there's no way I'd protect Kronwall at this stage of his career...

[kliq 3,755]

Zetterberg is a tricky one. If Vegas claimed Zetterberg, it would be a complete embarrassment for the organization to lose their captain. Kronwall on the other hand should not be protected, no team is going to claim him.

Edited November 24, 2016 by kliq

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

Zetterberg is a tricky one. If Vegas claimed Zetterberg, it would be a complete embarrassment for the organization to lose their captain. Kronwall on the other hand should not be protected, no team is going to claim him.

 

It would be an embarrassment for Vegas to draft someone who will by then be 37 years old.  

[kliq 3,755]

28 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

It would be an embarrassment for Vegas to draft someone who will by then be 37 years old.  

I don't think so. LV is is going to be filled with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd line players, they will have zero top prospects other then likely 1 from the draft, and a few kids, they will desperately need leadership.

Bringing in a guy like Zetterberg when the alternatives are Sheahan, Glendening, Marchenko etc. isnt the worst pick in the world. If we were dumb enough to leave potential stars like AA or Mantha exposed, sure its a dumb pick. But Z is not a bad option given the options.

[marcaractac 3,963]

7 minutes ago, kliq said:

I don't think so. LV is is going to be filled with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd line players, they will have zero top prospects other then likely 1 from the draft, and a few kids, they will desperately need leadership.

Bringing in a guy like Zetterberg when the alternatives are Sheahan, Glendening, Marchenko etc. isnt the worst pick in the world. If we were dumb enough to leave potential stars like AA or Mantha exposed, sure its a dumb pick. But Z is not a bad option given the options.

 

Vegas isn't gonna draft a 37-year-old who has had back surgery with 1 or 2 years left in the tank tops. There will be better and younger options for leadership. 

Even if they did for some reason decide drafting Zetterberg is important, he is not a part of this team's future anyway. 

[kickazz 5,459]

21 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Vegas isn't gonna draft a 37-year-old who has had back surgery with 1 or 2 years left in the tank tops. There will be better and younger options for leadership. 

Even if they did for some reason decide drafting Zetterberg is important, he is not a part of this team's future anyway. 

Look up the previous expansion drafts. Kevin Dineen was 37 when drafted by the Blue Jackets. Played with them for 2 seasons after that till he retired. His decline was much worse than Z's but he still got picked up. Chris Terreri was 38.

Lots of 34 and 35 year olds picked up in the 1999 expansion draft as well 

Edited November 24, 2016 by kickazz

[marcaractac 3,963]

12 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Look up the previous expansion drafts. Kevin Dineen was 37 when drafted by the Blue Jackets. Played with them for 2 seasons after that till he retired. His decline was much worse than Z's but he still got picked up. Chris Terreri was 38.

Lots of 34 and 35 year olds picked up in the 1999 expansion draft as well 

 

It was a very different league back then as well. The league has gotten MUCH younger since then.

[sjr2012 439]

zetty is my fav but i wouldnt not protect him over our younger guys 

[kickazz 5,459]

5 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

It was a very different league back then as well. The league has gotten MUCH younger since then.

It isn't. The average age in the league in 98/99 was 27, the average age right now is also 27. Give or take a few decimals.

Edited November 24, 2016 by kickazz

[marcaractac 3,963]

6 minutes ago, kickazz said:

It isn't. The average age in the league in 98/99 was 27, the average age right now is also 27. 

 

 

Regardless of the average age, young players are the stars of the league now. 

Mantha, Goose, Tatar, Abby, Helm, Neilson, AA. That would be the 7 I protect. If Jurco suddenly reverts back to his rookie year, then there are a couple tough decisions to be made.To hang onto a guy in his late 30's out of loyalty in my eyes is just insanity. Sheahan seems to be the logical choice for Vegas unless his bad season runs all year. He picked it up a lot late last season. Let's hope for the same this time. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by marcaractac

[kickazz 5,459]

I can see them trying to trade one of Tatar or Nyquist before deadline. Then protecting Nielsen, Abby, Nyquist (assuming Tatar is traded), Mantha, AA, Zetterberg, Helm. 

Expose Sheahan, Jurco, Glendening. 

I bet they're going to try that scenario. 

 

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I can see them trying to trade one of Tatar or Nyquist before deadline. Then protecting Nielsen, Abby, Nyquist (assuming Tatar is traded), Mantha, AA, Zetterberg, Helm. 

Expose Sheahan, Jurco, Glendening. 

I bet they're going to try that scenario. 

 

 

And if Sheahan or Jurco happen to break out at some point, what then?

For the record, I am on board with Tatar being traded if it's to improve the future of the team and not a desperation make the playoffs move. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

Must protects for me would be Nielsen (NMC), Mantha, Athanasiou, Sproul, Mrazek. Next in line would be Nyquist, Tatar and DeKeyser. That leaves two forwards and one defenseman, between Zetterberg, Abdelkader, Helm, Sheahan and Jurco / Kronwall, Ericsson, Green, Ouellet and Marchenko. I'd hate to waste a protection on a declining Zetterberg over a kid with potential, but I'd also hate to see Zetterberg end up in Vegas... In the end, I'd probably protect Abdelkader and Helm, unless Sheahan and / or Jurco show their worth in the next 6 months. On defense, it would be between Green and Ouellet for me, and even though Green only has one year remaining on his contract, I'd probably protect him over Ouellet.

Of course some of this could change depending on how the rest of the season plays out, and if there are any trades made in that time (one can hope)...

[kickazz 5,459]

16 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

And if Sheahan or Jurco happen to break out at some point, what then?

For the record, I am on board with Tatar being traded if it's to improve the future of the team and not a desperation make the playoffs move. 

Problem is, there's already a good amount of players who have jumped ahead of them on the depth chart. If those two broke out, I bet they try to use that to trade them in a package rather than try to protect them. I'm positive they've tried to trade Jurco already just like they tried with Pulkinen. I don't think Jurco has a future with the Red Wings at all. Even if he broke out. Sheahan maybe but not enough to be protected. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

So even if a young player breaks out, still hang onto the 37-year-old. If Holland does that he should be fired. 

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

2 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Vegas isn't gonna draft a 37-year-old who has had back surgery with 1 or 2 years left in the tank tops. There will be better and younger options for leadership. 

Even if they did for some reason decide drafting Zetterberg is important, he is not a part of this team's future anyway. 

As much as looking to build for the future, Vegas will be looking for respectability and someone to be a face for their team. There's many reasons to think they would jump at the chance to get Z. In their bid to sign UFAs having a player like Z would be attractive, rather than someone looking at a team that's pack of young guys without leadership and experience.

Also, they'll be a team looking to get to the cap floor and Z's contract and the idea that he might not fulfill it, could actually be a positive to them even if they think he's not worth it in those final years.

[kliq 3,755]

14 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

As much as looking to build for the future, Vegas will be looking for respectability and someone to be a face for their team. There's many reasons to think they would jump at the chance to get Z. In their bid to sign UFAs having a player like Z would be attractive, rather than someone looking at a team that's pack of young guys without leadership and experience.

Also, they'll be a team looking to get to the cap floor and Z's contract and the idea that he might not fulfill it, could actually be a positive to them even if they think he's not worth it in those final years.

Very good point. I think Z's contract is worth 6mil cap-hit wise, but actual dollar amount becomes 1mil per year. If you are asking me who I would rather keep, Sheahan or Zetterberg, I choose Zetterberg every time. A player like him is crucial to the development of our young forwards.

Now someone asked "what if a player like Jurco breaks out" well IF that happens I would reevaluate my choice at that time.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

So even if a young player breaks out, still hang onto the 37-year-old. If Holland does that he should be fired. 

Define "breaks out". 

32 minutes ago, kliq said:

Very good point. I think Z's contract is worth 6mil cap-hit wise, but actual dollar amount becomes 1mil per year. If you are asking me who I would rather keep, Sheahan or Zetterberg, I choose Zetterberg every time. A player like him is crucial to the development of our young forwards.

Well aside from the point you and PVD are making, if you asked me who I'd keep between Sheahan, Jurco or Zetterberg. I'd say Zetterberg every time because Zetterberg is still a better hockey player at the NHL level than Sheahan and Jurco even as a 36 year old broke back Swede.

If Holland got rid of one of our best players in favor of two players who haven't proved anything in the NHL and are already declining at a young age, THEN he should be fired. 

Unless Jurco and Sheahan miraculously started producing at a better rate than Zetterberg, which they never have. Like ever. Even at age 34, 35, 36, and probably won't next year either. Or even the year after that. 

It would be one thing if Z was 36 and not producing or if he spent most of his season always getting injured. But he's still the best producer on this team with the hard minutes he plays (him and Nyquist were leading the team in points). The decision isn't as easy as LGW people are making it out to be. Holland would have to justify why exactly he allowed one of, if not the best point producer on the squad to get taken by another team for free. 

My point is, protecting Zetterberg isn't just a "loyalty" thing that LGW is making it out to be. Go look at the NHL Red Wing team stats. This guy is still leading the squad in points year in and year out (Although Nyquist took the lead last night). As a manager you don't let that walk away for free unless you are guaranteed to make up for those points from somewhere else on the squad. 

An interesting research point would be to go back and see how many 36+ year olds who were consistently leading their teams in points were exposed in the expansion draft. I would but I'm too lazy from all the Turkey I just ate.

Edited November 24, 2016 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,963]

If Holland leaves either of Mantha or AA exposed, I will personally go punch him in all his teeth.

[kliq 3,755]

Could not say it any better myself kickazz.

Lefty, while I would not punch him lol, I would also be pissed if he left either of those 2 exposed.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I think if a Sheahan or Jurco really turned it on and started to show some promise, and it came down to protecting one of them or Zetterberg, the right decision is to protect the kid with the upside over the declining vet. This team isn't contending for the Cup with or without Zetterberg, and we need to start thinking about the future, not the now. I don't care that Zetterberg is leading the team in points now, I care about who is going to be the better player in 3+ years from now. Realistically, I don't see either of Sheahan or Jurco making enough of an impact this season that this would become an issue anyway, but let's say Zetterberg finishes the season with 44 points in 76 games, Sheahan has 34 points in 80 games, and Jurco has 30 points in 55 games... I don't think it's as cut and dry as "well Zetterberg had more points, so he's the obvious choice to protect"...

I will say it again though, I'm on the fence about protecting Zetterberg. He's one of my favorite players, I named my dog after him for f**** sake, but I don't necessarily think it's the right decision for the team going forward, IF a talented kid has to be exposed... In saying that, if Holland does protect Z, I definitely will not be upset with that decision, regardless how this season plays out... Now, if he wastes a protection on any (or dare I say, all...) of Kronwall, Ericsson, Glendening... I will be beyond pissed...

[Dabura 12,207]

Zetterberg will be protected no matter what. This is the Red Wings, he's the captain, and -- like kickazz said -- he continues to be one of our best players.

Kronwall, to me, is a different story. Protecting him would be damn near indefensible. That would be a "stupid loyalty thing."

[DickieDunn 2,571]

If Zetterberg is taken in the expansion draft it will be because of the difference between his salary and cap hit.

[chaps80 1,591]

Holland could leave Z unprotected, and then Z could make it known that he intends to retire immediately if claimed in the draft, because he doesn't want to play anywhere else. He started a Wing, and wants to retire a Wing, and taking him would waste a valuable pick. Couldn't see Vegas chancing it when there will be lots of other options. I see them takin Howard anyways if he continues to have a great season. That would be their one Detroit player they can take.