Be honest..

[frankgrimes 1,836]

So stop using them... They sound awful... Maybe I should just go back and unread it though...

I use whatever I want. didn't know the story about the Eichel Tower just heard the Sabres commentator saying it.

Doesn't even matter this may not be such a draft but Patrick, Liljegren, Foote...would still still help a lot. Maybe it's an advantage that they don't come with the same hype so less pressure.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

23 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

 

I use whatever I want. didn't know the story about the Eichel Tower just heard the Sabres commentator saying it.

Doesn't even matter this may not be such a draft but Patrick, Liljegren, Foote...would still still help a lot. Maybe it's an advantage that they don't come with the same hype so less pressure.

 

Sounds like you should un-hear it then

[greenrebellion 415]

13 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

That's what concerns me the most...Top 5 draft picks in any draft year can potentially be complete busts...With our luck we'd get a few of them.

What do you mean "with our luck," we have a very strong draft record.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

14 minutes ago, greenrebellion said:

What do you mean "with our luck," we have a very strong draft record.

Go look at our first picks from the last 10 years. They're really not very strong.

[kickazz 5,459]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Go look at our first picks from the last 10 years. They're really not very strong.

Riley Sheahan baby!

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Riley Sheahan baby!

Jiri Hudler is never around when you need him

[greenrebellion 415]

Ya Larkin was horrible. Tatar and Nyquist never turned into NHL players. Mantha is a complete bust. Man, we suck at drafting.

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by greenrebellion

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Riley Sheahan baby!

Haha not all our 1st rounders sucked though. Since 2000:

Kronwall

Kindl

Smith

McCollum

Sheahan

Mantha

Larkin

Svechnikov

Cholowski

Kronwall, Mantha, Larkin are the top three. Kronwall was a top D in his prime, and Mantha and Larkin have already made some impact and will be cornerstones going forward. Sheahan and Smith aren't great, but they are decent players who can step up. Kindl and McCollum were obvious busts. Svech and Cholowski it's way too early to tell.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, greenrebellion said:

Ya Larkin was horrible. Tatar and Nyquist never turned into NHL players. Mantha is a complete bust. Man, we suck at drafting.

 

Tatar and Nyquist were not our first selections in their drafts.....

Are you too busy being sarcastic to go look at our first selections from the past 10 years? Larkin and Mantha have been pretty much our only good selections in that time frame.

[kickazz 5,459]

The road to the playoffs. Red Wings edition. 

http://i.imgur.com/94KgPhS.mp4 

Edited December 15, 2016 by kickazz

[greenrebellion 415]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Tatar and Nyquist were not our first selections in their drafts.....

Are you too busy being sarcastic to go look at our first selections from the past 10 years? Larkin and Mantha have been pretty much our only good selections in that time frame.

I don't care if they were first round selections, my point was the team has a history of drafting well, or at least "average" at a minimum.  No hockey analyst in the last 10 years has ever made a case that the Wings are very bad at drafting.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Haha not all our 1st rounders sucked though. Since 2000:
Kronwall
Kindl
Smith
McCollum
Sheahan
Mantha
Larkin
Svechnikov
Cholowski
Kronwall, Mantha, Larkin are the top three. Kronwall was a top D in his prime, and Mantha and Larkin have already made some impact and will be cornerstones going forward. Sheahan and Smith aren't great, but they are decent players who can step up. Kindl and McCollum were obvious busts. Svech and Cholowski it's way too early to tell.

Sheahan and Smith are moldy turd sandwiches

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I don't care if they were first round selections, my point was the team has a history of drafting well, or at least "average" at a minimum.  No hockey analyst in the last 10 years has ever made a case that the Wings are very bad at drafting.

Wings are/were good at drafting forwards, in terms of drafting defenders they haven't had any success

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

36 minutes ago, greenrebellion said:

I don't care if they were first round selections, my point was the team has a history of drafting well, or at least "average" at a minimum.  No hockey analyst in the last 10 years has ever made a case that the Wings are very bad at drafting.

And I'm not making that case either. I said our first selections have been pretty bad the last 10 years, and you proceeded to make a sarcastic comment about it. So perhaps reading more thoroughly will help next time.

[kickazz 5,459]

41 minutes ago, greenrebellion said:

I don't care if they were first round selections, my point was the team has a history of drafting well, or at least "average" at a minimum.  No hockey analyst in the last 10 years has ever made a case that the Wings are very bad at drafting.

Just to play devils advocate, maybe Detroit drafting is just overrated. Haven't had any elite players since the 1998 and 1999 draft technically speaking. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, kickazz said:

Just to play devils advocate, maybe Detroit drafting is just overrated. Haven't had any elite players since the 1998 and 1999 draft technically speaking. 

Not true. We drafted Johan in 04.

[greenrebellion 415]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Tatar and Nyquist were not our first selections in their drafts.....

Are you too busy being sarcastic to go look at our first selections from the past 10 years? Larkin and Mantha have been pretty much our only good selections in that time frame.

Well then go poll the 29 other teams and see if on average, they have a much better hit rate than we do in the first picks over the last 10 years (obviously taking into account average draft position of the teams), otherwise I'm not sure what your point is.

Edited December 15, 2016 by greenrebellion

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 minutes ago, greenrebellion said:

Well then go poll the 29 other teams and see if on average, they have a much better hit rate than we do in the first picks over the last 10 years (obviously taking into account average draft position of the teams), otherwise you are just making random pointless conjecture.  

Do you actually have anything constructive to add to this conversation, or are you just mad because you misread my original post?

I'll recap: I stated that it was my opinion that our first selections in the draft have been poor for the past 10 years.

If you hold a different or opposing opinion to that please feel free to share and I will engage you. If comparing our first selections to the 29 other teams in the league, weighted by draft position, is something you would like to do, feel free, I'd love to see it. Get started soon though, that should be a bit of work!

Edited December 16, 2016 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[greenrebellion 415]

53 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Do you actually have anything constructive to add to this conversation, or are you just mad because you misread my original post?

I'll recap: I stated that it was my opinion that our first selections in the draft have been poor for the past 10 years.

If you hold a different or opposing opinion to that please feel free to share and I will engage you. If comparing our first selections to the 29 other teams in the league, weighted by draft position, is something you would like to do, feel free, I'd love to see it. Get started soon though, that should be a bit of work!

Our drafting has been lauded for years as being excellent. Onus is on you to prove a position opposite common wisdom.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I think the first mistake people make is thinking first rounders are guaranteed impact players. They're not.

For the past 10 years we have not picked very high. If you want to say we are not successful at it, at least give a comparable. What team has picked that low for the past decade and has so much more to show for it?

 

[chaps80 1,591]

2 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Sheahan and Smith are moldy turd sandwiches

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

At times yes. But they have both shown they can play if they put effort in. They just don't do it a lot.

[kliq 3,763]

34 minutes ago, greenrebellion said:

Our drafting has been lauded for years as being excellent. Onus is on you to prove a position opposite common wisdom.

In the latter rounds. I don't think I have ever heard anyone say that the Wings are great at drafting in the first round. With the exception of the past few years and Kronwall, our first round picks have not been the best, I dont think anyone is arguing that.

[greenrebellion 415]

36 minutes ago, Son of a Wing said:

I think the first mistake people make is thinking first rounders are guaranteed impact players. They're not.

For the past 10 years we have not picked very high. If you want to say we are not successful at it, at least give a comparable. What team has picked that low for the past decade and has so much more to show for it?

 

Exactly

[chaps80 1,591]

24 minutes ago, Son of a Wing said:

I think the first mistake people make is thinking first rounders are guaranteed impact players. They're not.

 

 

Exactly. And some of the best players in NHL history have been passed over numerous times in drafts for way lesser players or huge busts. For example, Brodeur was drafted second last in the first round (20th overall) in 1990. Top 10 that year:

Owen Nolan-QUE

Petr Nedved-VAN

Keith Primeau-DET

Mike Ricci-PHI

Jaromir Jagr-PIT

Scott Scissons-NYI (played 2 NHL games)

Darryl Sydor-LA

Derian Hatcher-MIN

John Slaney-WASH

Drake Berehowsky-TOR

7 of them had long NHL careers, but only Jagr will be in the HOF with Brodeur.

After the top 10, the only real notable names are Brad May-BUF (14th), Keith Tkachuk-WPG (19th), and Bryan Smolinski-BOS (21st). Out of the rest (ahead of Brodeur), two didn't even play one NHL game. 

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

2 hours ago, Son of a Wing said:

I think the first mistake people make is thinking first rounders are guaranteed impact players. They're not.

For the past 10 years we have not picked very high. If you want to say we are not successful at it, at least give a comparable. What team has picked that low for the past decade and has so much more to show for it?

I like to look at The Devils for perspective on these kinds of questions since their playoff streak 1997-2010 put them in a similar situation of never drafting high. Since they started their playoff-less streak, they've picked up Larsson and Zacha, but those are low first rounders, so I'll just consider 10 years where both teams were in the similar situation of picking high (2000-2010)

2000-2010: 1st round picks to play more than 200 games:

2000: David Hale (22nd overall)

2003: Parise (17th overall)

2004: Zajac (20th overall)

2009: Jacob Josefson (20th overall)

vs.

2000: Kronwall (29th)

2005: KIndl (19th)

2007: Smith (27th)

2010: Sheahan (21st)

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=80702

So I think they come out ahead on quality because of Parise and Zajac, but I don't consider that much more to show since those 2 are their only guys still in the NHL and Kronwall is equal to one of those guys.

One problem with the comparison is that Kenny traded his 1sts a couple of times for a 2nd plus another pick. Another is that we usually picked lower than them. If you look at those draft history pages, though, we definitely come out ahead when looking at number and quality of players picked up in the rest of the draft. That is where the reputation of the Wings as good at draft comes from - the lower rounds. I do think our advantage has lessened in recent years, though, as Europe and Russia are now thoroughly scouted.

Edit: If you consider all the years that both teams were riding the streak at the same time, that adds Van Ryn for them and Jiri Fischer for us. That makes it even more interesting since Fischer looked to be headed toward the high caliber.

Edited December 16, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk