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Red Wings Expansion Draft Protected List

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1 minute ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

That article was posted 3 hours ago so you can't suggest that they've realized anything since then. There is a lot of people outside the WIngs fanbase that thought he should have been chosen. 

Haven't read that specific article, just glanced at it when you posted it.

The days following had all the articles coming out as to why Mrazek was exposed and all the rationalizations. It was a shocker no doubt, but sadly was most of the shock was unfounded. He wasn't even claimed.

Just now, krsmith17 said:

Could have sworn that's what I was doing for the past couple pages. Guess you missed it. Oh well...

And yet, you continue to comment lol shall we start back up again??

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yeah cause I think there were better goalies available to him. Only way he would've wanted Mrazek was to flip him.

Guess I wasn't clear. What I meant is that it's not likely that McPhee was engaged in any active attempt to find a market for Mrazek. It wouldn't have been any kind of priority for him. At most he would have asked other GMs if there was anyone exposed that they were interested in trading for. That the few teams who may be looking for a goalie weren't focused on getting one from Vegas doesn't really mean anything. It's not like the exposed goalies were going to disappear post-expansion. I imagine most teams would probably want to have multiple options in order to get the best deal they could, rather than encourage Vegas to corner the market and gain even more power than they already had.

You're projecting somewhat of a "See, Mrazek sucks and no one in the whole league wants him" kind of vibe. Ironically, to even think that Mrazek might figure prominently enough in all the expansion draft happenings to draw any firm conclusions on what the league thinks about him is itself greatly exaggerating his value. He's a good young player, but hardly the only one left exposed. It's a big story for the Wings, but not necessarily for the whole league. 

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I do doubt it, and like I said, it's all speculation. I just find it very difficult to believe anyone would find more value in Tomas Nosek over Petr Mrazek. Maybe McPhee really does believe Nosek can develop into something, or maybe he thinks Mrazek is a career backup. I have no idea.

Either you think there was a deal (contrary to some compelling evidence) or you don't. But whatever.

I think you're being a little too simplistic in your thought process. It's not just a matter of "Who's better: Mrazek or Nosek?". There are several factors in play. Vegas already had their short-term starter. For a backup and potential long-term solution, they chose Pickard, which doesn't even mean they think he has the best potential. In some cases, the other options on a team (Schmidt) might have been a factor. Maybe cost was an issue as well. Maybe it's a case of McPhee thinking Nosek + Pickard is better, all things considered, than Mrazek + Grigorenko. Or maybe just with everything else going on, McPhee didn't give it enough consideration and does actually think Nosek is better. It's not like he or his staff is an expert on every player in the league or had time to do a careful analysis of several hundred players, shouldn't be hard to imagine that he made a few mistakes.

No good reason to make the leap to thinking that Holland lied about making a deal, and that the deal is still, for some reason, a secret a day later. There are more logical rationalizations.

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Good question. None of us know the answer to this. One thing is for sure though, he needs to get his head on straight unless he wants all that potential to be for not...


I truly think he will turn things around if given the proper chance to do so. Last chance to dance. If he's simply Howard's backup or something though, and spends a lot of time on the bench, what can realistically be expected? Can't s*** on him if you don't let him do what he needs to do. "Well, Petr did well in 25 starts he was given, but it's not enough. We're sticking with Howard."


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3 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Guess I wasn't clear. What I meant is that it's not likely that McPhee was engaged in any active attempt to find a market for Mrazek. It wouldn't have been any kind of priority for him. At most he would have asked other GMs if there was anyone exposed that they were interested in trading for. That the few teams who may be looking for a goalie weren't focused on getting one from Vegas doesn't really mean anything. It's not like the exposed goalies were going to disappear post-expansion. I imagine most teams would probably want to have multiple options in order to get the best deal they could, rather than encourage Vegas to corner the market and gain even more power than they already had.

You're projecting somewhat of a "See, Mrazek sucks and no one in the whole league wants him" kind of vibe. Ironically, to even think that Mrazek might figure prominently enough in all the expansion draft happenings to draw any firm conclusions on what the league thinks about him is itself greatly exaggerating his value. He's a good young player, but hardly the only one left exposed. It's a big story for the Wings, but not necessarily for the whole league. 

Either you think there was a deal (contrary to some compelling evidence) or you don't. But whatever.

I think you're being a little too simplistic in your thought process. It's not just a matter of "Who's better: Mrazek or Nosek?". There are several factors in play. Vegas already had their short-term starter. For a backup and potential long-term solution, they chose Pickard, which doesn't even mean they think he has the best potential. In some cases, the other options on a team (Schmidt) might have been a factor. Maybe cost was an issue as well. Maybe it's a case of McPhee thinking Nosek + Pickard is better, all things considered, than Mrazek + Grigorenko. Or maybe just with everything else going on, McPhee didn't give it enough consideration and does actually think Nosek is better. It's not like he or his staff is an expert on every player in the league or had time to do a careful analysis of several hundred players, shouldn't be hard to imagine that he made a few mistakes.

No good reason to make the leap to thinking that Holland lied about making a deal, and that the deal is still, for some reason, a secret a day later. There are more logical rationalizations.

I somewhat disagree there, Mrazek WAS one of the bigger stories when lists were announced. Wouldn't surprise me if McPhee asked a few teams who've expressed interest in goalies if they'd like him to select Mraz for them to trade for. But he also may have not batted an eye at Mrazek and moved on his way without any teams asking either, who knows.

Yes, I'm purposely projecting that vibe lol. It tickles me pink that half this board moped and griped about stupid Holland all week, when it appears precious Mrazek wasn't in any real threat of being selected the whole time. I do think Mrazek has sucked pretty bad for the last year and a half, but I've said since it was announced he was exposed that I don't think he'll be selected.

I think he's grossly overvalued, and that's basically the end of the story. Whether that's because he's been terrible or because the goalie market is dry, it's hard to say, it's probably a combination of each.

1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

 


I truly think he will turn things around if given the proper chance to do so. Last chance to dance. If he's simply Howard's backup or something though, and spends a lot of time on the bench, what can realistically be expected? Can't s*** on him if you don't let him do what he needs to do. "Well, Petr did well in 25 starts he was given, but it's not enough. We're sticking with Howard."


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What happened to Howard spending all year on IR?? :lol:

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I do doubt it, and like I said, it's all speculation. I just find it very difficult to believe anyone would find more value in Tomas Nosek over Petr Mrazek. Maybe McPhee really does believe Nosek can develop into something, or maybe he thinks Mrazek is a career backup. I have no idea.

Mrazek is a $4 million goalie who spent over a year playing like an AHL journeyman with rumors of a bad attitude. I wouldn't have touched him either. I would have snagged XO instead, though.

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Subpar is a bit generous


He started off pretty good. Not great, but good. Then Howard had that game in NY and all of a sudden Blash's bingo wheel of doom is in motion. Mrazek may have improved, may not have. But after Howard being given his starts, then Coreau being given his starts while getting lit up like a Xmas tree that caught on fire, maybe he got somewhat aggravated? By the end of the season while alternating starts with Howard, he was playing much better. Howard had some really bad games at that point too. His season wasn't perfect.A 3.00 GAA is high, but considering the season the Wings had, and him starting 50 games, it's not THAT horrible.


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1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

 


He started off pretty good. Not great, but good. Then Howard had that game in NY and all of a sudden Blash's bingo wheel of doom is in motion. Mrazek may have improved, may not have. But after Howard being given his starts, then Coreau being given his starts while getting lit up like a Xmas tree that caught on fire, maybe he got somewhat aggravated? By the end of the season while alternating starts with Howard, he was playing much better. Howard had some really bad games at that point too. His season wasn't perfect.A 3.00 GAA is high, but considering the season the Wings had, and him starting 50 games, it's not THAT horrible.


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Yes it is.

You can make all the excuses for him you want, but he was our starter for the majority of the season just like he wanted to be, and he was arguably the worst starter in the entire league last year. That's horrible. Meanwhile Howard posted one of his best seasons ever behind the same team.

It was so horrible he was unable to be traded, was then exposed, and still unclaimed.

Got any other mental gymnastics?

 

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What happened to Howard spending all year on IR?? :lol:


I doubt that will happen, but he's good for an injury or two a year that sidelines him. It's just an "if" scenario. IF Howard stays healthy and is given 50-60 starts, then they shouldn't complain about Mrazek not stepping up.


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1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

 


I doubt that will happen, but he's good for an injury or two a year that sidelines him. It's just an "if" scenario. IF Howard stays healthy and is given 50-60 starts, then they shouldn't complain about Mrazek not stepping up.


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That's an "If" scenario, I highly doubt Mrazek steps it up ;)

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Yes it is.
You can make all the excuses for him you want, but he was our starter for the majority of the season just like he wanted to be, and he was arguably the worst starter in the entire league last year. That's horrible. Meanwhile Howard posted one of his best seasons ever behind the same team.
It was so horrible he was unable to be traded, was then exposed, and still unclaimed.
Got any other mental gymnastics?
 


Yeah Jimmy had a huge 25 game season. Maybe that's why he did so well. Lots of rest and training/practice time, conditioning stint before returning. Had he played a real starters workload, his numbers would 99% not have stayed there. His numbers dropped while rotating with Mrazek towards the end of the season.

Howard was on the trade market before last season too, no one would touch him with his inconsistency, injuries, and contract. They still wouldn't. Calgary chose Elliott as a gamble for cheap for one season instead of a gamble on Howard and having him get hurt or suck and being stuck with his immovable deal. You act like Mrazek's one bad season defines his ability and potential and he's worthless. Before last year, he had a career GAA in the upper 2.00's. Horrible.


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18 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

 


I doubt that will happen, but he's good for an injury or two a year that sidelines him. It's just an "if" scenario. IF Howard stays healthy and is given 50-60 starts, then they shouldn't complain about Mrazek not stepping up.


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3 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

 


Yeah Jimmy had a huge 25 game season. Maybe that's why he did so well. Lots of rest and training/practice time, conditioning stint before returning. Had he played a real starters workload, his numbers would 99% not have stayed there. His numbers dropped while rotating with Mrazek towards the end of the season.

Howard was on the trade market before last season too, no one would touch him with his inconsistency, injuries, and contract. They still wouldn't. Calgary chose Elliott as a gamble for cheap for one season instead of a gamble on Howard and having him get hurt or suck and being stuck with his immovable deal. You act like Mrazek's one bad season defines his ability and potential and he's worthless. Before last year, he had a career GAA in the upper 2.00's. Horrible.


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That's funny... If Mrazek only plays 25 games the Wings shouldn't expect him to do well, but if Howard plays 25 games that's the reason he does well.

We're reach new levels of cognitive dissonance folks, hold on to your butts!

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That's funny... If Mrazek only plays 25 games the Wings shouldn't expect him to do well, but if Howard plays 25 games that's the reason he does well.
We're reach new levels of cognitive dissonance folks, hold on to your butts!


Didn't say don't expect him to do well. I said plays well in the games he's given. Don't give him the majority, don't s*** on him for not being the dominant goalie and use that as a basis for him not being around anymore. Give him the majority and he s***s the bed, then no worries, his contract is finished. With Blashill, who knows how starts will be divided up. Maybe throw a dart at two pictures with his eyes closed?


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1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

 


Didn't say don't expect him to do well. I said plays well in the games he's given. Don't give him the majority, don't s*** on him for not being the dominant goalie and use that as a basis for him not being around anymore. Give him the majority and he s***s the bed, then no worries, his contract is finished. With Blashill, who knows how starts will be divided up. Maybe throw a dart at two pictures with his eyes closed?


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But Howard did so well BECAUSE he only played 25 games. All that rest, training, practice time. You said it yourself. Clearly Mrazek would benefit from the same thing... Right? Or do you hold a double standard when it comes to our goalies??

 

 

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I doubt that will happen, but he's good for an injury or two a year that sidelines him. It's just an "if" scenario. IF Howard stays healthy and is given 50-60 starts, then they shouldn't complain about Mrazek not stepping up.


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Isn't it his job to step up and play well when he gets an opportunity? So yes, they should complain if he fails.

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But Howard did so well BECAUSE he only played 25 games. All that rest, training, practice time. You said it yourself. Clearly Mrazek would benefit from the same thing... Right? Or do you hold a double standard when it comes to our goalies??
 
 


Didn't say Mrazek would benefit from less games. I'm saying he needs to play all the games he can actually. But what's given is what's given. If you want to do all the things to send a message to play better or your done in Detroit, then you need to give him the chance to do it. Just don't want to see him move on because Blash favoured Howard or Coreau or whoever else over Mrazek even if he was playing great. That's all it is. Seems his attitude and performance last season might put him in that situation regardless of what he does. I hope that's not the case. The Wings need him to play well consistently and give him the reigns going forward. He's still the goalie with the most skill, confidence, and potential in the system right now. No one is really even close.


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42 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I somewhat disagree there, Mrazek WAS one of the bigger stories when lists were announced. Wouldn't surprise me if McPhee asked a few teams who've expressed interest in goalies if they'd like him to select Mraz for them to trade for. But he also may have not batted an eye at Mrazek and moved on his way without any teams asking either, who knows.

Yes, I'm purposely projecting that vibe lol. It tickles me pink that half this board moped and griped about stupid Holland all week, when it appears precious Mrazek wasn't in any real threat of being selected the whole time. I do think Mrazek has sucked pretty bad for the last year and a half, but I've said since it was announced he was exposed that I don't think he'll be selected.

I think he's grossly overvalued, and that's basically the end of the story. Whether that's because he's been terrible or because the goalie market is dry, it's hard to say, it's probably a combination of each.

Sure, one of the bigger surprises (though likely seems a lot bigger to us since it's Wings related), but is that really saying much? What else was there: Neal and Ryan? (And Ryan probably not that big a surprise since he's 30, makes all the money for forever, and had a terrible season of his own.)

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Didn't say Mrazek would benefit from less games. I'm saying he needs to play all the games he can actually. But what's given is what's given. If you want to do all the things to send a message to play better or your done in Detroit, then you need to give him the chance to do it. Just don't want to see him move on because Blash favoured Howard or Coreau or whoever else over Mrazek even if he was playing great. That's all it is. Seems his attitude and performance last season might put him in that situation regardless of what he does. I hope that's not the case. The Wings need him to play well consistently and give him the reigns going forward. He's still the goalie with the most skill, confidence, and potential in the system right now. No one is really even close.


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So should they allow him to be the #1 guy and play 60 games even if he's terrible, so he can work through his issues? Because that would send a great message to the team. "Look guys I know we've lost a ton because of goal tending issues, but we can't make a change because Petr was named the starter and we just don't think it's fair to take the job away just because he's not getting the job done."

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So should they allow him to be the #1 guy and play 60 games even if he's terrible, so he can work through his issues? Because that would send a great message to the team. "Look guys I know we've lost a ton because of goal tending issues, but we can't make a change because Petr was named the starter and we just don't think it's fair to take the job away just because he's not getting the job done."

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Absolutely not. Goalies have rough stretches, but if he's consistently bad knowing he's under the microscope and his attitude and work ethic are in question heading into the season, then by all means, bench him. But if he's put the work in over the summer to improve and is playing well, let it roll. Give him as much playing time as possible.

Just don't want to see these issues the Wings have with him now affect and influence how he's treated and how much playing time he gets this season, even if he improves. Entire point of these last few comments that seems to have been missed.


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OK, but you're on record saying they shouldn't have given Howard as many starts and Coreau shouldn't have gotten as many as he did so they could play Mrazek even though he was playing like a dumpster fire all year.

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It was likely a mixture of all things. Rewarding Howard, sending Mrazek a message, and knowing that Vegas wouldn't likely claim Mrazek

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10 hours ago, joesuffP said:

It was likely a mixture of all things. Rewarding Howard, sending Mrazek a message, and knowing that Vegas wouldn't likely claim Mrazek

I really think it is as simple as this, like you say.

I've been saying since the exposure that Holland probably knew there was a very slim chance Mrazek would get claimed after shopping him. So he used the opportunity to send a message to his team. Guys who work hard will be rewarded, guys who act like little dick birds will not.

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs
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19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I really think it is as simple as this, like you say.

I've been saying since the exposure that Holland probably knew there was a very slim chance Mrazek wouldn't get claimed after shopping him. So he used the opportunity to send a message to his team. Guys who work hard will be rewarded, guys who act like little dick birds will not.

I think I heard somewhere that Holland will continue to try and trade Mrazek, though.  Arizona and Winnipeg are in need of a starter.  In either case, it seems we are gung-ho about having Howard/Coreau being the tandem this season and moving forward.  I do have reservations about Coreau's ability to stay consistent, based off of his play so far.  I also have to wonder, if we are moving away from Mrazek, will our goalie coach also change?

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5 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

I think I heard somewhere that Holland will continue to try and trade Mrazek, though.  Arizona and Winnipeg are in need of a starter.  In either case, it seems we are gung-ho about having Howard/Coreau being the tandem this season and moving forward.  I do have reservations about Coreau's ability to stay consistent, based off of his play so far.  I also have to wonder, if we are moving away from Mrazek, will our goalie coach also change?

I disagree here. His trade value is the lowest it's been since he entered the NHL right now. I think he's likely off the trade block for the time being, and will start the season with us in September. If he doesn't get his act together by the trade deadline however, I think he will be ditched at that time.

That is unless Holland wants to clear cap and a team like Arizona is willing to hedge their bets on the kid.

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