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Z and D for the C

Rate our current forward group

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Just as a discussion: I'm not sure if it's just myself, but with all the talk about doom and gloom for this team, when I actually look at our forward group I'm a little impressed and I think it might be one of the better groups overall. Obviously we don't have a lot of major star power anymore - we don't have a Crosby, Stamkos, etc or the young stars like the Leafs do but I'd put our forward group up against a lot of teams. Zetterberg, at least as of last season has shown he can still produce, especially if Nyquist and Tatar have better years and I love our second line right now. We also have a ton of depth on the 3rd line. While I've always thought Helm and Abdelkader were way overused when in the top 6 they fit great on the third line and I feel like it has to be one of the better third lines in the league. And then our fourth line are some good grinders/defensive players that we can count on to do 4th liney things.

It's too bad we have such a poor defense right now. Green has gotten to be one of my favorite players on the team but I don't think he's a #1 by any means, and then rest of our defense are 3/4 and 5/6 type guys.

Again this is mostly for discussion and obviously things on paper always look better than they are, but is our forward group a little underrated?

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5 hours ago, Echolalia said:

We have good supporting cast, and I think when you look at the Wings' complementary players we can stack up well against other teams, but it's the fact we don't have a Stamkos or Crosby that makes our forward group as a whole inferior to many other squads.

Yeah, pretty much this. The lack of a young elite center is what I believe is this forward groups biggest weakness. The depth is there, but the star power is lacking. If by December Athanasiou is signed and Svechnikov gets called up (doubt it), we could have one of the deepest forward groups in the league, assuming everyone else is healthy...

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Mantha

Tatar - Larkin - Svechnikov

Athanasiou - Nielsen - Frk

Abdelkader - Helm - Booth / Sheahan / Glendening

The defense is a sad state right now, but I don't think it has to be as bad as it is right now either. If Ericsson were scratched in favor of Hicketts or Sproul, it would drastically improve the defense in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, pretty much this. The lack of a young elite center is what I believe is this forward groups biggest weakness. The depth is there, but the star power is lacking. If by December Athanasiou is signed and Svechnikov gets called up (doubt it), we could have one of the deepest forward groups in the league, assuming everyone else is healthy...

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Mantha

Tatar - Larkin - Svechnikov

Athanasiou - Nielsen - Frk

Abdelkader - Helm - Witkowski

The defense is a sad state right now, but I don't think it has to be as bad as it is right now either. If Ericsson were scratched in favor of Hicketts or Sproul, it would drastically improve the defense in my opinion.

Fixed your post.  That's a solid group indeed.  

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Witkowski blows and should not be anywhere near an NHL roster.

Booth / Sheahan / Glendening >>> Witkowski

Oh come on.  He hits people and drops the gloves.  God forbid the team should try to draw women to games and boost alcohol sales in the process.  Also, he's Polish.  There's lots of them in Detroit.  Nothing wrong with that large segment of Detroit's population being more interested in this fading team. 

Edited by GMRwings1983

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34 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Oh come on.  He hits people and drops the gloves.  God forbid the team should try to draw women to games and boost alcohol sales in the process.  Also, he's Polish.  There's lots of them in Detroit.  Nothing wrong with that large segment of Detroit's population being more interested in this fading team. 

I'm not sure what toughness has to do with women attending games or alcohol sales, much less winning hockey games... Witkowski, thus far hasn't shown he can do anything that could help win hockey games, therefore shouldn't be in the lineup.

13 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

We are 1 line removed from a solid forward group.  We have forwards 4 - 12.  We are missing 1-3.

You don't think we have a single top 3 forward on our team? I'd agree that we don't have a single top pair defenseman, but disagree on the forwards.

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9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not sure what toughness has to do with women attending games or alcohol sales, much less winning hockey games... Witkowski, thus far hasn't shown he can do anything that could help win hockey games, therefore shouldn't be in the lineup.

You don't think we have a single top 3 forward on our team? I'd agree that we don't have a single top pair defenseman, but disagree on the forwards.

1. Fist goes into face
2. Panties go to floor
3. Males drink in celebration
4. Profit

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1 hour ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Oh come on.  He hits people and drops the gloves.  God forbid the team should try to draw women to games and boost alcohol sales in the process.  Also, he's Polish.  There's lots of them in Detroit.  Nothing wrong with that large segment of Detroit's population being more interested in this fading team. 

There were lots of women there on opening night. They were dressed in skinny jeans, sporting man buns and long hipster beards, and wearing sweaters with the names of modern warriors like Nyquist and Tatar. I'm pretty sure that the PC term for these ladies nowadays, is, Metrosexual. 

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46 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not sure what toughness has to do with women attending games or alcohol sales, much less winning hockey games... Witkowski, thus far hasn't shown he can do anything that could help win hockey games, therefore shouldn't be in the lineup.

You don't think we have a single top 3 forward on our team? I'd agree that we don't have a single top pair defenseman, but disagree on the forwards.

Everybody knows women love hockey fights.  Everyone also knows that when women attend events with their friends, they drink lots of alcohol.  That in turn makes more profit for the team.  Seems like a simple concept.    

13 minutes ago, BigWillieStyle said:

There were lots of women there on opening night. They were dressed in skinny jeans, sporting man buns and long hipster beards, and wearing sweaters with the names of modern warriors like Nyquist and Tatar. I'm pretty sure that the PC term for these ladies nowadays, is, Metrosexual. 

That's why there's no NHL team in Seattle.  Don't need more of that at the games.  

Edited by GMRwings1983

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50 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not sure what toughness has to do with women attending games or alcohol sales, much less winning hockey games... Witkowski, thus far hasn't shown he can do anything that could help win hockey games, therefore shouldn't be in the lineup.

You don't think we have a single top 3 forward on our team? I'd agree that we don't have a single top pair defenseman, but disagree on the forwards.

We have a top 3 in Mantha-Zetterberg-Larkin that is probably equal to or better than 10-15 teams' top 3.  That's OK, but we wont be competing with the Oilers, Blackhawks, Penguins, or Maple Leafs top 3 guys unless we can snag a few top draft picks over the next 2-3 years.  And we cant do that if we keep winning!

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35 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

1. Fist goes into face
2. Panties go to floor
3. Males drink in celebration
4. Profit

 

8 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Everybody knows women love hockey fights.  Everyone also knows that when women attend events with their friends, they drink lots of alcohol.  That in turn makes more profit for the team.  Seems like a simple concept.

Not sure what kind of women you guys usually go for (nor do I care), but I've yet to find a woman that gets excited or enjoys hockey fights, or fights of any kind for that matter... I do like a good hockey fight, but they also have to have some sort of skill... I'd love to have a Darren McCarty or Bob Probert on this team, but Luke Witkowski? No thanks...

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17 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Everybody knows women love hockey fights.  Everyone also knows that when women attend events with their friends, they drink lots of alcohol.  That in turn makes more profit for the team.  Seems like a simple concept.    

That's why there's no NHL team in Seattle.  Don't need more of that at the games.  

Here in Milwaukee we consume alcohol to make the women prettier.

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20 minutes ago, BigWillieStyle said:

There were lots of women there on opening night. They were dressed in skinny jeans, sporting man buns and long hipster beards, and wearing sweaters with the names of modern warriors like Nyquist and Tatar. I'm pretty sure that the PC term for these ladies nowadays, is, Metrosexual. 

Hx8U2ty.png

11 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Oh come on.  Everybody knows women love hockey fights.  Everyone also knows that when women attend events with their friends, they drink lots of alcohol.  That in turn makes more money for the team.  Seems like a simple concept.  

Common Knowledge. Women love violence and booze. Pretty much all my wife does is drink jack and hit me these days.

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1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

We have a top 3 in Mantha-Zetterberg-Larkin that is probably equal to or better than 10-15 teams' top 3.  That's OK, but we wont be competing with the Oilers, Blackhawks, Penguins, or Maple Leafs top 3 guys unless we can snag a few top draft picks over the next 2-3 years.  And we cant do that if we keep winning!

If we replace Zetterberg (who eventually has to slow down), with a young stud centerman (maybe Larkin, maybe Rasmussen, or maybe he hasn't been drafted yet) over the next couple years, I think a top line flanked by Mantha and whoever else could be as good as any top line in the league. We're not going to get a Crosby or McDavid or probably not even a Matthews, but we could definitely get a center as good or better than Toews, or any other top line center in the league. Our biggest needs are an elite number one center and an elite number one defenseman. Those aren't easy holes to fill, and likely will have to come in the way of a top 3 pick. Hopefully we get one of those (Dahlin) in the 2018 draft...

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22 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

 

That's why there's no NHL team in Seattle.  Don't need more of that at the games.  

 

I really think that the people that think that Seattle would be a good place for a team, have never spent any time in the area, and only look at it as a thriving metropolis, therefore, it would be a great place for a new team.

My wife grew up in the area, and I've been going out there to visit her family for the past 35 years. Have spent a great deal of time out there in the last 10 years, as her parents were aging, and finally passed on. Not one time in all of those years, have I ever thought that they could successfully keep an NHL club in Seattle. They would be more successful with having 3 soccer teams, than they would one NHL team. I've been to several Thunderbirds games, with around 500 in attendance. And The Husky's program is no better. Hockey really isn't really in the blood of the residents, and for lack of a better word to describe it, the city is too "Metropolitan" for hockey. 

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25 minutes ago, BigWillieStyle said:

I really think that the people that think that Seattle would be a good place for a team, have never spent any time in the area, and only look at it as a thriving metropolis, therefore, it would be a great place for a new team.

My wife grew up in the area, and I've been going out there to visit her family for the past 35 years. Have spent a great deal of time out there in the last 10 years, as her parents were aging, and finally passed on. Not one time in all of those years, have I ever thought that they could successfully keep an NHL club in Seattle. They would be more successful with having 3 soccer teams, than they would one NHL team. I've been to several Thunderbirds games, with around 500 in attendance. And The Husky's program is no better. Hockey really isn't really in the blood of the residents, and for lack of a better word to describe it, the city is too "Metropolitan" for hockey. 

As a Seattle resident I agree and disagree with you.

Hockey is certainly not the in the blood of the city. There's the obvious love for the Seahawks (every American city loves their football) but after that it's the sounders soccer team and wanting a basketball team back.

However, I don't think how much Seattle is changing and growing can be ignored. We currently have about 2,000 new residents moving into the city a month. Which is insane. And a ton of these people are east coast transplants like myself. I barely know a handful of natives, almost all my colleagues and friends are from New York, Chicago, etc. The market is just too large with too much dispensable income to ignore.

Brand the team right and the hipster douches will jump on board just like they did with the Sounders.

The biggest wrench for a new team is the possible moving of Amazon. Their is heavy suspicion from many Amazon employees I know that the company will pick up and move to avoid the rising costs in Seattle. The place their rumored to be looking at right now is Detroit. If Amazon announces a move to Detroit I implore all of you living in near the city to starting buying homes around the Detroit area ASAP. The city will become an income residence cash cow overnight. 

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32 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

As a Seattle resident I agree and disagree with you.

Hockey is certainly not the in the blood of the city. There's the obvious love for the Seahawks (every American city loves their football) but after that it's the sounders soccer team and wanting a basketball team back.

However, I don't think how much Seattle is changing and growing can be ignored. We currently have about 2,000 new residents moving into the city a month. Which is insane. And a ton of these people are east coast transplants like myself. I barely know a handful of natives, almost all my colleagues and friends are from New York, Chicago, etc. The market is just too large with too much dispensable income to ignore.

Brand the team right and the hipster douches will jump on board just like they did with the Sounders.

The biggest wrench for a new team is the possible moving of Amazon. Their is heavy suspicion from many Amazon employees I know that the company will pick up and move to avoid the rising costs in Seattle. The place their rumored to be looking at right now is Detroit. If Amazon announces a move to Detroit I implore all of you living in near the city to starting buying homes around the Detroit area ASAP. The city will become an income residence cash cow overnight. 

No.

Edited by kickazz

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4 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Oh come on.  He hits people and drops the gloves.  God forbid the team should try to draw women to games and boost alcohol sales in the process.  Also, he's Polish.  There's lots of them in Detroit.  Nothing wrong with that large segment of Detroit's population being more interested in this fading team. 

I'm polish. Keep that guy as far from the ice as possible.

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2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

If we replace Zetterberg (who eventually has to slow down), with a young stud centerman (maybe Larkin, maybe Rasmussen, or maybe he hasn't been drafted yet) over the next couple years, I think a top line flanked by Mantha and whoever else could be as good as any top line in the league. We're not going to get a Crosby or McDavid or probably not even a Matthews, but we could definitely get a center as good or better than Toews, or any other top line center in the league. Our biggest needs are an elite number one center and an elite number one defenseman. Those aren't easy holes to fill, and likely will have to come in the way of a top 3 pick. Hopefully we get one of those (Dahlin) in the 2018 draft...

Agreed.  We sure look like a team that wants to win, though.  That wont help us get Dahlin or Svechito.

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19 hours ago, Z and D for the C said:

Just as a discussion: I'm not sure if it's just myself, but with all the talk about doom and gloom for this team, when I actually look at our forward group I'm a little impressed and I think it might be one of the better groups overall. Obviously we don't have a lot of major star power anymore - we don't have a Crosby, Stamkos, etc or the young stars like the Leafs do but I'd put our forward group up against a lot of teams. Zetterberg, at least as of last season has shown he can still produce, especially if Nyquist and Tatar have better years and I love our second line right now. We also have a ton of depth on the 3rd line. While I've always thought Helm and Abdelkader were way overused when in the top 6 they fit great on the third line and I feel like it has to be one of the better third lines in the league. And then our fourth line are some good grinders/defensive players that we can count on to do 4th liney things.

It's too bad we have such a poor defense right now. Green has gotten to be one of my favorite players on the team but I don't think he's a #1 by any means, and then rest of our defense are 3/4 and 5/6 type guys.

Again this is mostly for discussion and obviously things on paper always look better than they are, but is our forward group a little underrated?

Personally, I wouldn't say we have one of the better forward groups. But I totally get where you're coming from.

I guess I'd put it this way: we don't have one of the better forward groups right now, but over the next three years our group could get "real good, real fast" (to borrow a hockey coachism/GMism). That's because Holland has constructed a really good supporting cast, as you and others have pointed out. The depth is there, we just need to find ourselves that radiant top-tier star to lead the way.

If we somehow land Andrei Svechnikov and Larkin establishes himself as a viable 1C this season, that might be enough to put us back in business, at least in the forward department.

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Two things,  we aren't even icing our best possible lineup (which would have AA,  Svechnikov,  and Bertuzzi), and so as a result we have two lines which have no realistic shot of contributing offensively.   As a result is say our forward lines are trash in their totality. Ice our best lineup and they're probably 12-18 in the league. 

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