LeftWinger

Official 2018 NHL Amateur Entry Draft Discussion Thread

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1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I tend to be wary of centermen "who also play wing." I want a centerman's centerman, a bona fide pivot who we are 99% certain will be a pivot in his pro career.

Hopefully Rass playing wing in Tri City isn't anything to be concerned about.

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18 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Hopefully Rass playing wing in Tri City isn't anything to be concerned about.

It's not. The coach has him and Geekie together for their incredible chemistry, despite the fact theyre both centerman. It has nothing to do with how good of a centerman he is.

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17 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Are you sure? I have seen him listed mostly as a RW, occasionally as a C/RW. If he isn't a full time C at the lower levels, I don't think he'll play C at the NHL level. Which is why I'm not high on him. I'm only looking at Svech, Zadina, Tkachuk if I am looking at a forward in the top 10. If I need a Center, I trade down and pick Veleno.

I guess I was a bit misleading. Wahlstrom is probably a full-time winger at higher levels, and that's why I'm not crazy about him. But I have the same basic concern about Tkachuk. So, if Tkachuk is the consensus top C, I think you also have to consider Wahlstrom for that title.

I do feel Veleno is more of a "centerman's centerman"; you could absolutely make a case for him being the top C.

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If I had to choose between Wahlstrom and Tkachuk, I think I'd take Wahlstrom. While it'd be great to have a throwback power-forward with a mean streak and soft hands (Tkachuk), I think Wahlstrom's game is better suited for today's NHL. He's got size, he's a great skater, he plays a physical game and likes to be in the middle of the action -- but he's also a wildly skilled scorer and playmaker with very real gamebreaking ability. And he shoots right-handed.

"Yet you say you might be disappointed if we take him in the 6-8 range. Be consistent, man!"

I just like those three or four defensemen that much, and we need high-end defensemen that badly. Not that we don't also need a scorer like Wahlstrom (or Zadina), but I don't think he (or Zadina, or Tkachuk) is on Svechnikov's level. If we're not getting Dahlin or Svechnikov, the smart pick is probably Hughes/Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson. I won't get bent out of shape if the Wings decide otherwise, though. Because all of these players are excellent.

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The idea of two towers like Miller and Samuelsson one day on our blue line sounds great!

If we could snag both of them with Vegas and Ottawa's pick, all would be good in thed world! We may get one, but I am not sure either of them get to the second round, even if it is 33 and 36.

If we stay at 5 or drop, and we cone out of June with Hughes/Bouchard/Dobson and Miller and Samuelsson with our 1st three picks....wow! But really there is so much talent available, how could anyone screw it up?

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1 hour ago, Dabura said:

If I had to choose between Wahlstrom and Tkachuk, I think I'd take Wahlstrom. While it'd be great to have a throwback power-forward with a mean streak and soft hands (Tkachuk), I think Wahlstrom's game is better suited for today's NHL. He's got size, he's a great skater, he plays a physical game and likes to be in the middle of the action -- but he's also a wildly skilled scorer and playmaker with very real gamebreaking ability. And he shoots right-handed.

"Yet you say you might be disappointed if we take him in the 6-8 range. Be consistent, man!"

I just like those three or four defensemen that much, and we need high-end defensemen that badly. Not that we don't also need a scorer like Wahlstrom (or Zadina), but I don't think he (or Zadina, or Tkachuk) is on Svechnikov's level. If we're not getting Dahlin or Svechnikov, the smart pick is probably Hughes/Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson. I won't get bent out of shape if the Wings decide otherwise, though. Because all of these players are excellent.

I agree 100%.

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

I guess I was a bit misleading. Wahlstrom is probably a full-time winger at higher levels, and that's why I'm not crazy about him. But I have the same basic concern about Tkachuk. So, if Tkachuk is the consensus top C, I think you also have to consider Wahlstrom for that title.

I do feel Veleno is more of a "centerman's centerman"; you could absolutely make a case for him being the top C.

Tkachuk is also listed as a slash too. He won't be a center at the NHL level. The highest ranked "true" Center is Veleno.

Whenever I See C/LW or C/RW I always see that as the equivalent of "padding a resume". Svech Sr. was listed as a C/LW when he was drafted IIRC, but i don't think there's much argument about him being a winger at the NHL level.

I think if it Dahlin and Svech are gone, I draft one of the D, then I look to trade up into the teens and draft Veleno if I can get him. The problem with that scenario is they'll probably want an early second back in the trade.

I guess my point is, unless it's Svechnikov, there are too many good young D to draft a winger with the first pick.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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17 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I agree 100%.

Tkachuk is also listed as a slash too. He won't be a center at the NHL level. The highest ranked "true" Center is Veleno.

Whenever I See C/LW or C/RW I always see that as the equivalent of "padding a resume". Svech Sr. was listed as a C/LW when he was drafted IIRC, but i don't think there's much argument about him being a winger at the NHL level.

I think if it Dahlin and Svech are gone, I draft one of the D, then I look to trade up into the teens and draft Veleno if I can get him. The problem with that scenario is they'll probably want an early second back in the trade.

I guess my point is, unless it's Svechnikov, there are too many good young D to draft a winger with the first pick.

Yup.

Tkachuk might be an NHL center, but my money's on him becoming a winger like his his older brother and performing more or less the same as his bro has.

I'm thinking Veleno probably goes in the top 12. That said, I'd be thrilled if we could somehow trade up and get him with our second pick. Maybe an AA+ package gets us there? AA + Vegas's 1st + one of our 2nds? Does that get us a pick in the 9-12 range and, if so, would Veleno be worth it?

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1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Yup.

Tkachuk might be an NHL center, but my money's on him becoming a winger like his his older brother and performing more or less the same as his bro has.

I'm thinking Veleno probably goes in the top 12. That said, I'd be thrilled if we could somehow trade up and get him with our second pick. Maybe an AA+ package gets us there? AA + Vegas's 1st + one of our 2nds? Does that get us a pick in the 9-12 range and, if so, would Veleno be worth it?

Yes, I think that trade would be accepted. Would I do it? IDK, that's one of those trades I'm glad I don't have to decide.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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Thing is, Larkin is our future #1 Center (if not already) Sure Veleno would be a great pick up, but would we be squandering one of them on the 2nd line? They both cannot be #1 C's...

Personally, If I am not getting Dahlin, then if we trade AA, VEG's pick and a 2nd to get another top 10-12 pick, I am taking another D.  Lets say I get Hughes with our pick, then trade up to #9 and Bouchard or Boqvist is still there, I am taking one of them. I know we need a lot of things, but man if we could score BOTH Hughes Bouchard, my goodness!  Hell even if we got Dahlin, making a deal for another top10-12 is not a bad idea either. Could you imagine Dahlin AND Hughes for example? Nice!

Honestly though, I think just trading AA and VEG's pick can get us somewhere around 10-12. I might offer up one of those 3rds, but I like our 2nds, we could really score big with two picks in the top 12 and two more in the top 5 of the 2nd. 

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22 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Thing is, Larkin is our future #1 Center (if not already) Sure Veleno would be a great pick up, but would we be squandering one of them on the 2nd line? They both cannot be #1 C's...

Personally, If I am not getting Dahlin, then if we trade AA, VEG's pick and a 2nd to get another top 10-12 pick, I am taking another D.  Lets say I get Hughes with our pick, then trade up to #9 and Bouchard or Boqvist is still there, I am taking one of them. I know we need a lot of things, but man if we could score BOTH Hughes Bouchard, my goodness!  Hell even if we got Dahlin, making a deal for another top10-12 is not a bad idea either. Could you imagine Dahlin AND Hughes for example? Nice!

Honestly though, I think just trading AA and VEG's pick can get us somewhere around 10-12. I might offer up one of those 3rds, but I like our 2nds, we could really score big with two picks in the top 12 and two more in the top 5 of the 2nd. 

Penguins seem to make it work. But I get your point.

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4 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Penguins seem to make it work. But I get your point.

Ya, I didn't think of them, but I try not to think too much about the Penguins. :lol: 

Veleno would be a great addition, man there is so much to choose from! Can we somehow get 17 1st rounder's?

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We're all hoping to get one of those top 2 picks on the 28th, but if we end up with the 3rd pick, I'd definitely shop it to a team in the 5-8 range. If we could get Bouchard with that top pick and trade up to also get Wahlstrom, that would be an amazing first round for us. And we'd still have another one or two picks in the 2nd round to hopefully get another big player. 

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Penguins seem to make it work. But I get your point.

Larkin / Veleno also wouldn't be close to the calibre of Crosby / Malkin... A ton of teams have two top centers as good or better than what Larkin / Veleno project to be.

We need a number one defenseman, a top 2 center and a couple high end right handed wingers added to the prospect pool. If we could get 2 of those 4 pieces, we'll be well on our way to rebuilding this team. This is a HUGE draft for this organization. Hopefully we get lucky in the lottery and on draft day...

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On the spot time. You're Holland, you're drafting a D with your first pick. With the obvious #1 being Dahlin, what is your order preference after that?

For me, because of our need of a RH puck mover first:

Dobson

Bouchard 

Boqvist

Hughes

Really though, they're all elite and IMO can ALL challenge for an open spot this season. Trade XO, do not re-sign Green, that leaves two spots to vie for. If Hicketts is going to be a 6/7, with Jensen or injury replacement, we need to give our draft pick every chance to win a spot in the top 5.

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On the O side, it seems Zadina has passed Svechling into the #2 spot, but because of his local ties I'll say if we're going O, Svechling would be Holland's 1st choice, after that:

Zadina

Tkachuk

Farabee

Wahlstrom

Hayton

Looking further down with our 3 more picks, a ranking I saw had Noel at 22, Miller at 30 and Samuelsson at 31. If they inched down a wee bit, we could haul in a draft that could rank 2nd behind 1989.

Edited by LeftWinger

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8 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

On the O side, it seems Zadina has passed Svechling into the #2 spot

For some people, yes, but I think they're in the minority. Svechnikov is generally considered the top forward in this draft class. For all of the HYPE! around Zadina, Svechnikov quietly obliterated the OHL this season.

Edited by Dabura

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On 4/17/2018 at 6:00 PM, LeftWinger said:

Thing is, Larkin is our future #1 Center (if not already) Sure Veleno would be a great pick up, but would we be squandering one of them on the 2nd line? They both cannot be #1 C's...

The way I see it, we need everything. Or, put another way: there isn't anything we don't need. All positions are open. We are hiring.

Larkin and Mantha are looking like they could be real stars, but we don't know that they're going to be the elite 1C and elite scoring winger that we would ideally like to have in our quest for the Cup. I'm all about the huge step Larkin took this season, but at this point in time there's no guarantee that he doesn't ultimately top out as sort of a Matt Duchene/Kyle Turris, i.e. a serviceable 1C who you'd ideally like to have slotted behind a powerhouse 1C. And if you can't find the powerhouse 1C, you'd like to at least have a couple of those Duchene-Turrises, e.g. Nashville's current two top-six centermen (Johansen and Turris, neither of whom put up especially great numbers this season).

But I digress...

We're rebuilding. The more picks we have in the next few drafts, the more likely we are to get some really high-end prospects. The more high-end prospects we have, the more likely we are to end up with some elite NHLers. The more elite NHLers we have, the more capable we are of winning the Cup, at least in theory. So, I wouldn't worry about Veleno being overqualified for a 2C role. That would be a good problem to have. The bigger, more immediate concern right now is that we only have one young high-end centerman on the roster (Larkin) and one high-end centerman in the pipeline (Rasmussen). The Wings would be foolish to assume that having Larkin and Rasmussen means they're set at center.

On 4/17/2018 at 6:00 PM, LeftWinger said:

Personally, If I am not getting Dahlin, then if we trade AA, VEG's pick and a 2nd to get another top 10-12 pick, I am taking another D.  Lets say I get Hughes with our pick, then trade up to #9 and Bouchard or Boqvist is still there, I am taking one of them. I know we need a lot of things, but man if we could score BOTH Hughes Bouchard, my goodness!  Hell even if we got Dahlin, making a deal for another top10-12 is not a bad idea either. Could you imagine Dahlin AND Hughes for example? Nice!

IMO, my hypothetical trade-up proposal only gets accepted if our trade partner isn't wild about the available names and believes AA + Vegas's 1st + early 2nd is collectively more valuable than the player he could get with his 9th/10th/11th/12th overall pick. If Hughes or Bouchard or Boqvist is available, we're not getting that pick. But if those guys are gone and Veleno is looking like the best name left on the board? Then we might have a shot.

But we don't know what any organization's preference chart looks like. So I dunno.

On 4/17/2018 at 6:17 PM, LeftWinger said:

Basically what we are all trying to say is this top 10 is so good, we really can't go wrong!

:lol: The only way Holland can screw this up is if he gets #1 and doesn't draft Dahlin!

Yep! :w00t2:

Edited by Dabura

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1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Dude. What has gotten into you today. First its PULITZER Peace Prize and now its 5 forwards listed as D. :wacko:

The PPP was intentional. This one was a shameful mistake..

OR MAYBE I'M JUST PLAYING MIND GAMES. DID YOU EVER CONSIDER THAT???

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So worst case scenario: We drop to 8th. Dahlin, Svech, Zadina, and all 4 of the 2nd-tier D off the board. What do you do?

Tkachuk? Wahlstrom? Veleno? Next-best D in Ty Smith? Curse the hockey gods and start watching cricket?

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6 minutes ago, Buppy said:

So worst case scenario: We drop to 8th. Dahlin, Svech, Zadina, and all 4 of the 2nd-tier D off the board. What do you do?

Tkachuk? Wahlstrom? Veleno? Next-best D in Ty Smith? Curse the hockey gods and start watching cricket?

Tkachuk. Not a bad piece at 8 eh?

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42 minutes ago, Dabura said:

The PPP was intentional. This one was a shameful mistake..

OR MAYBE I'M JUST PLAYING MIND GAMES. DID YOU EVER CONSIDER THAT???

Whaaaa? Much like British comedy, I just didn't get it.

16 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Tkachuk. Not a bad piece at 8 eh?

So in other words, we're getting a really good player no matter how badly we get screwed on lottery day.

25 minutes ago, Buppy said:

So worst case scenario: We drop to 8th. Dahlin, Svech, Zadina, and all 4 of the 2nd-tier D off the board. What do you do?

Tkachuk? Wahlstrom? Veleno? Next-best D in Ty Smith? Curse the hockey gods and start watching cricket?

Keep the bus from falling below 55 MPH.

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