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Official 2018 NHL Amateur Entry Draft Discussion Thread

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11 minutes ago, Richdg said:

I understand that. But I also understand speaking in generalities and the difference between opinion and stats. If I say I see player X as a 60 point per year player does that mean he scores exactly 60 points per year? Or does that mean that over several years time he will average around 60 points. It could be 58, it could be 63, etc.... If I saw a guy is top 10 in the league does that mean he is tenth? 5th? 1st? That one gets hard becasue everyone has a different opinion of players. Who is the best player in the NHL right now? Ask 10 guys get at least 7 answers. So you group them. Far to many get far to upset about things that don't really matter-our opinions about hockey.

With that, Happy New Year!

The difference is you said he was a top 5 player on most sources but in reality he was nowhere close. That's the difference. It's not a matter of opinion, you just gave us some wrong facts and people can't take you seriously when you do that. It prevents actual discussion because we feel as though we're talking to a wall and it turns people off. 

It would be one thing if you said "I think he's going to be a top 5 prospect" but you basically said he's being listed by that by multiple sources, which is not true at all. 

Anyways we're all family here, Happy New Years Rich! 

Edited by kickazz

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41 minutes ago, Richdg said:

I understand that. But I also understand speaking in generalities and the difference between opinion and stats. If I say I see player X as a 60 point per year player does that mean he scores exactly 60 points per year? Or does that mean that over several years time he will average around 60 points. It could be 58, it could be 63, etc.... If I saw a guy is top 10 in the league does that mean he is tenth? 5th? 1st? That one gets hard becasue everyone has a different opinion of players. Who is the best player in the NHL right now? Ask 10 guys get at least 7 answers. So you group them. Far to many get far to upset about things that don't really matter-our opinions about hockey.

With that, Happy New Year!

If you called a guy who scored 58 points a 60 point scorer, nobody would say anything.

We come on here to discuss the Red Wings as clearly we all share a passion for this team. With that being said, we all disagree from time to time. The problem with what you do, is when you disagree with someone you will throw out "facts" that are just not true.

This is a perfect example. Poster says this kid is a sleeper, and you dispute that by saying you wouldn't call a guy that is top 5 in most experts list a sleeper. If everyone had him at 6, I wouldn't have said anything. But when he isnt even top 10 and is closer to 13 on most lists, people will saying something.

You're a solid contributor to this site Rich, but when you use stats and are way off it hurts your credibility and when it happens time after time after time, people stop taking you seriously.

Just fact check before you post numbers.

To be clear, I say this because I want to have healthy debates with you. But it's frustrating to debate with someone who just says whatever they need to in an attempt to make their point.

Please dont take this personally, I'm not trying to piss you off or come off like a jerk. I'm trying to give you advice so we can continue to talk hockey. 

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2 hours ago, Richdg said:

Since people like to call me a liar. Here you go:

Future Considerations #16

Central Scouting has him as an A rated player

ISS has him #13

Hockey Draft Central #13 in December

Ryan Pike on Hockey Writers #16 in November

Sportsbreak #13 in August

Sportsnet Jeff Maesk #13 in November

He was also the London Knights #1 pick 3 years ago.

Which brings me back to the point, he isn't a sleeper. He is a highly rated player. he has been for years. he is on pace for over 80 points this year for London. he will be taken in the first 10 picks in the draft and I bet it will be between 5-7. Save the post. I bet I am right.

Just for reference. Some other crazy things I have said over the last 5+ years.

tatar and nyquist are 40 point per year guys. Guess what they are.

mantha will be our pick. Called it about 5 months before the draft.

had Larkin in my final 3 possible for the 2014 draft months before the draft.

had svechnikov in my final 3 possibles weeks before the 2015 draft.

way off in 2016.

didn't do much about the 2017 draft due to personnel issues. Called rasmussen as 1 of 3 possibles the day before the draft.

Was discussing the "swedish mafia" stuff a year ago. Got flamed. Now others on this forum are talking about it, using the term and wondering if it is true.

But hey what do I know. I lie about everything. Clearly.

You also called Bertuzzi a garbage draft choice and thought Mark Fayne would be a tremendous pick up, among other things I'm sure.

We're all right and wrong about things sometimes. It's when individuals can't admit they're wrong that ppl get fed up. You were wrong about top 5. Just move on.

De Hann/Cole 2018

 

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You have to ask yourself, if we do not get #1 and Dahlin, knowing we really need a defenseman, is Quinn Hughes the way to go? ISS has I'm at #5 right now, he doesn't rank any lower than 7 right now. OR do we just go for the best available? We drafted for need last year, should we do the same with a top 5 or go best available? I see Boqvist is ranked above him in 3 of the 4 below as well. Wonder why he falls to 8 in ISS when he is high as 3 in two of them and 4 in the other. Lets say you get #4 overall. If Hughes and Boqvist are there, which do you grab? Or do you go with Tkachuk/Zadina up front?

FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS TOP 31 - FALL RANKING team_homepage.png team_twitter.png team_facebook.png team_youtube.png
 
1 1.png Rasmus Dahlin (D) Frölunda HC SHL 26 5 6 11 12 
2 9.png Andrei Svechnikov (RW) Barrie Colts OHL 16 14 7 21 22 
3 1.png Adam Boqvist (D) Brynäs IF J20 SuperElit 17 11 7 18 16 
4 6.png Brady Tkachuk (C/LW) Boston Univ. NCAA 19 4 10 14 18 
5 8.png Filip Zadina (LW) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 32 24 22 46 17 
6 6.png Quinn Hughes (D) Univ. of Michigan NCAA 16 1 9 10 16 
7 3.png Joseph Veleno (C) Drummondville Voltigeurs QMJHL - - - -
8 3.png Ty Smith (D) Spokane Chiefs WHL 35 5 32 37 18 
9 6.png Oliver Wahlstrom (C/RW) U.S. National U18 Team USDP 26 16 15 31 20 
10 3.png Jared McIsaac (D) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 34 4 16 20 42 
MCKEEN'S HOCKEY TOP 31 - DECEMBER RANKING team_homepage.png team_twitter.png team_facebook.png
 
1 1.png Rasmus Dahlin (D) Frölunda HC SHL 26 5 6 11 12 
2 9.png Andrei Svechnikov (RW) Barrie Colts OHL 16 14 7 21 22 
3 8.png Filip Zadina (LW) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 32 24 22 46 17 
4 1.png Adam Boqvist (D) Brynäs IF J20 SuperElit 17 11 7 18 16 
5 6.png Quinn Hughes (D) Univ. of Michigan NCAA 16 1 9 10 16 
6 6.png Brady Tkachuk (C/LW) Boston Univ. NCAA 19 4 10 14 18 
7 6.png Oliver Wahlstrom (C/RW) U.S. National U18 Team USDP 26 16 15 31 20 
8 3.png Ty Smith (D) Spokane Chiefs WHL 35 5 32 37 18 
9 3.png Jared McIsaac (D) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 34 4 16 20 42 
10 3.png Ryan Merkley (D) Guelph Storm OHL 33 10 32 42 34 
ISS HOCKEY TOP 31 - DECEMBER RANKING team_homepage.png team_twitter.png team_facebook.png team_youtube.png
 
1 1.png Rasmus Dahlin (D) Frölunda HC SHL 26 5 6 11 12 
2 9.png Andrei Svechnikov (RW) Barrie Colts OHL 16 14 7 21 22 
3 6.png Brady Tkachuk (C/LW) Boston Univ. NCAA 19 4 10 14 18 
4 8.png Filip Zadina (LW) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 32 24 22 46 17 
5 6.png Quinn Hughes (D) Univ. of Michigan NCAA 16 1 9 10 16 
6 6.png Oliver Wahlstrom (C/RW) U.S. National U18 Team USDP 26 16 15 31 20 
7 3.png Joseph Veleno (C) Drummondville Voltigeurs QMJHL - - - -
8 1.png Adam Boqvist (D) Brynäs IF J20 SuperElit 17 11 7 18 16 
9 3.png Ryan McLeod (C) Mississauga Steelheads OHL 34 9 26 35 12 
10 2.png Rasmus Kupari (C) Kärpät Liiga 19 3 1 4
HOCKEYPROSPECT.COM TOP 31 - NOVEMBER RANKING team_homepage.png team_twitter.png team_facebook.png team_youtube.png
 
1 1.png Rasmus Dahlin (D) Frölunda HC SHL 26 5 6 11 12 
2 9.png Andrei Svechnikov (RW) Barrie Colts OHL 16 14 7 21 22 
3 1.png Adam Boqvist (D) Brynäs IF J20 SuperElit 17 11 7 18 16 
4 8.png Filip Zadina (LW) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 32 24 22 46 17 
5 6.png Brady Tkachuk (C/LW) Boston Univ. NCAA 19 4 10 14 18 
6 2.png Rasmus Kupari (C) Kärpät Liiga 19 3 1 4
7 6.png Quinn Hughes (D) Univ. of Michigan NCAA 16 1 9 10 16 
8 6.png Joel Farabee (LW) U.S. National U18 Team USDP 26 13 14 27 22 
8 3.png Ty Smith (D) Spokane Chiefs WHL 35 5 32 37 18 
9 6.png Oliver Wahlstrom (C/RW) U.S. National U18 Team USDP 26 16 15 31 20 
 

 

 

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Quick Note: Mattias Samuelsson has rocketed into the top 20 on some lists, as a matter of fact he lands at #13 on hockeyprospects.com list. Could be a sleeper for someone. Maybe a high 2nd for us if drops a bit?

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3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

You have to ask yourself, if we do not get #1 and Dahlin, knowing we really need a defenseman, is Quinn Hughes the way to go? ISS has I'm at #5 right now, he doesn't rank any lower than 7 right now. OR do we just go for the best available? We drafted for need last year, should we do the same with a top 5 or go best available? I see Boqvist is ranked above him in 3 of the 4 below as well. Wonder why he falls to 8 in ISS when he is high as 3 in two of them and 4 in the other. Lets say you get #4 overall. If Hughes and Boqvist are there, which do you grab? Or do you go with Tkachuk/Zadina up front?

FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS TOP 31 - FALL RANKING team_homepage.png team_twitter.png team_facebook.png team_youtube.png
 
1 1.png Rasmus Dahlin (D) Frölunda HC SHL 26 5 6 11 12 
2 9.png Andrei Svechnikov (RW) Barrie Colts OHL 16 14 7 21 22 
3 1.png Adam Boqvist (D) Brynäs IF J20 SuperElit 17 11 7 18 16 
4 6.png Brady Tkachuk (C/LW) Boston Univ. NCAA 19 4 10 14 18 
5 8.png Filip Zadina (LW) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 32 24 22 46 17 
6 6.png Quinn Hughes (D) Univ. of Michigan NCAA 16 1 9 10 16 
7 3.png Joseph Veleno (C) Drummondville Voltigeurs QMJHL - - - -
8 3.png Ty Smith (D) Spokane Chiefs WHL 35 5 32 37 18 
9 6.png Oliver Wahlstrom (C/RW) U.S. National U18 Team USDP 26 16 15 31 20 
10 3.png Jared McIsaac (D) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 34 4 16 20 42 
MCKEEN'S HOCKEY TOP 31 - DECEMBER RANKING team_homepage.png team_twitter.png team_facebook.png
 
1 1.png Rasmus Dahlin (D) Frölunda HC SHL 26 5 6 11 12 
2 9.png Andrei Svechnikov (RW) Barrie Colts OHL 16 14 7 21 22 
3 8.png Filip Zadina (LW) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 32 24 22 46 17 
4 1.png Adam Boqvist (D) Brynäs IF J20 SuperElit 17 11 7 18 16 
5 6.png Quinn Hughes (D) Univ. of Michigan NCAA 16 1 9 10 16 
6 6.png Brady Tkachuk (C/LW) Boston Univ. NCAA 19 4 10 14 18 
7 6.png Oliver Wahlstrom (C/RW) U.S. National U18 Team USDP 26 16 15 31 20 
8 3.png Ty Smith (D) Spokane Chiefs WHL 35 5 32 37 18 
9 3.png Jared McIsaac (D) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 34 4 16 20 42 
10 3.png Ryan Merkley (D) Guelph Storm OHL 33 10 32 42 34 
ISS HOCKEY TOP 31 - DECEMBER RANKING team_homepage.png team_twitter.png team_facebook.png team_youtube.png
 
1 1.png Rasmus Dahlin (D) Frölunda HC SHL 26 5 6 11 12 
2 9.png Andrei Svechnikov (RW) Barrie Colts OHL 16 14 7 21 22 
3 6.png Brady Tkachuk (C/LW) Boston Univ. NCAA 19 4 10 14 18 
4 8.png Filip Zadina (LW) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 32 24 22 46 17 
5 6.png Quinn Hughes (D) Univ. of Michigan NCAA 16 1 9 10 16 
6 6.png Oliver Wahlstrom (C/RW) U.S. National U18 Team USDP 26 16 15 31 20 
7 3.png Joseph Veleno (C) Drummondville Voltigeurs QMJHL - - - -
8 1.png Adam Boqvist (D) Brynäs IF J20 SuperElit 17 11 7 18 16 
9 3.png Ryan McLeod (C) Mississauga Steelheads OHL 34 9 26 35 12 
10 2.png Rasmus Kupari (C) Kärpät Liiga 19 3 1 4
HOCKEYPROSPECT.COM TOP 31 - NOVEMBER RANKING team_homepage.png team_twitter.png team_facebook.png team_youtube.png
 
1 1.png Rasmus Dahlin (D) Frölunda HC SHL 26 5 6 11 12 
2 9.png Andrei Svechnikov (RW) Barrie Colts OHL 16 14 7 21 22 
3 1.png Adam Boqvist (D) Brynäs IF J20 SuperElit 17 11 7 18 16 
4 8.png Filip Zadina (LW) Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 32 24 22 46 17 
5 6.png Brady Tkachuk (C/LW) Boston Univ. NCAA 19 4 10 14 18 
6 2.png Rasmus Kupari (C) Kärpät Liiga 19 3 1 4
7 6.png Quinn Hughes (D) Univ. of Michigan NCAA 16 1 9 10 16 
8 6.png Joel Farabee (LW) U.S. National U18 Team USDP 26 13 14 27 22 
8 3.png Ty Smith (D) Spokane Chiefs WHL 35 5 32 37 18 
9 6.png Oliver Wahlstrom (C/RW) U.S. National U18 Team USDP 26 16 15 31 20 
 

 

 

It's still early days. My current #2 and #3 are Svechnikov and Boqvist, respectively, but Zadina is making an increasingly strong case for being considered Svechnikov's equal, and Hughes might honestly be the second best defenseman in this draft class.

Those are my non-Dahlin top four right now. Those are the players I -- as a Wings fan first and a hockey fan second -- find the most tantalizing right now. A lot can change between now and June, though.

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2 hours ago, Dabura said:

It's still early days. My current #2 and #3 are Svechnikov and Boqvist, respectively, but Zadina is making an increasingly strong case for being considered Svechnikov's equal, and Hughes might honestly be the second best defenseman in this draft class.

Those are my non-Dahlin top four right now. Those are the players I -- as a Wings fan first and a hockey fan second -- find the most tantalizing right now. A lot can change between now and June, though.

I am no expert on the prospects by any means, but I was going to post something similar.

My plan, regardless of draft position, would be in this order:

1: Draft Dahlin if available

2. If Dahlin is gone, draft Svechnikov if available

3. If Dahlin and Svech are gone, draft Boqvist or Hughes if available

4. If all of those 4 are gone, draft one of Tkachuk or Zadina

5. If the Wings get really bad luck on the draw (likely), and all 6 are gone, throw darts

 

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Outside of the top two picks, which are boring to talk about, I'd like to see us take a high offensive defenseman, and a lower ranked center (with the pick we'll hopefully get from Mike Green).  I'm thinking Boqvist, Hughes, or Dobson on defense, and Veleno or McBain at center.  I'd be pumped.

Edited by kipwinger

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Am I the only one uninspired by the higher-end picks, aside from Dahlin? Seems all the top forwards are wingers, and all the top D play like they are. Not that I would hate a Boqvist, Hughes, or Zadina, I just wonder how much difference they would make. 

Seems like the middle of the 1st has the more well-rounded, potentially higher-impact players. I really like what I've read on Evan Bouchard and Noah Dobson. Also Wilde, McIsaac, and Veleno even though their numbers aren't great.

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I think Veleno could be a steal.  He's got the skill, but because he's never lived up to the "exceptional status" tag people are down on him.  I'm always a big fan of drafting on guys with dynamic skill sets and he's got one.  I literally cringe when I watch the World Juniors and see Casey Mittelstadt eating up his peers while remembering how he got s*** on for being too weak at the combine and not playing good enough competition.  I know less about Wilde and McIsaac, but I really like Dobson too.  And like I said above, McBain as a mid-rounder would be a nice choice as well. 

Given the talent that will be available mid-round, I think it would go along way toward our rebuild if we could somehow get multiple first round picks.  I hope Green will land us one, but if not I would certainly dangle one of Nyquist/Tatar if that would get us a 1st. 

Edited by kipwinger

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Just now, kickazz said:

Why

Because A) Wingers are less important to team success than centers and defensemen, B) This year's draft is heavy on offensive defensemen, C) Winger is a position of strength for us, D) There's the potential to get good centers later in the first round given that the top of the draft is full of defensemen. 

We need another good center, and a really good defenseman going forward.  We'll likely have two picks in the first round.  We can get two things that we need if only we don't use one of those picks on a winger. 

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3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Because A) Wingers are less important to team success than centers and defensemen, B) This year's draft is heavy on offensive defensemen, C) Winger is a position of strength for us, D) There's the potential to get good centers later in the first round given that the top of the draft is full of defensemen. 

We need another good center, and a really good defenseman going forward.  We'll likely have two picks in the first round.  We can get two things that we need if only we don't use one of those picks on a winger. 

But his name is the same as the other guy we drafted

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3 hours ago, Buppy said:

Am I the only one uninspired by the higher-end picks, aside from Dahlin? Seems all the top forwards are wingers, and all the top D play like they are. Not that I would hate a Boqvist, Hughes, or Zadina, I just wonder how much difference they would make. 

Seems like the middle of the 1st has the more well-rounded, potentially higher-impact players. I really like what I've read on Evan Bouchard and Noah Dobson. Also Wilde, McIsaac, and Veleno even though their numbers aren't great.

I'm starting to kinda lean in this direction as I learn more and more about more and more of these players.

I mean, let me be clear: I'm not uninspired by Svechnikov, Boqvist, Zadina, Hughes, Tkachuk. Far from it. To me, they're looking like your safest bets for a franchise cornerstone player right now (beyond Dahlin, of course). They're all exciting, they're all tantalizing, any one of them would be a huge addition to the Wings' system. At the same time, though, what makes this draft class special -- IMO, the reason why this is widely considered an extremely deep class -- is that there isn't necessarily going to be much talent separation between, say, #5 and #20.

We're looking at a very big pool of very good players, a much bigger pool than we're used to seeing. If Evan Bouchard (who, like I've said, I'm really high on) were in last year's class, he probably would've gone in the top ten. Joe Veleno might've been a top-five pick last year. But, as things currently stand, Bouchard and Veleno and a busload of similarly high-end-yet-surprisingly-underhyped players are kind of stuck in the shadow of some players who really might not be any better than them. Bouchard, Veleno, et al. aren't the dazzling offense-weighted weapons that guys like Boqvist and Zadina are, but you could be on to something when you say they're more well-rounded and perhaps more desirable because of it.

I'll put it this way: anyone who gets taken within the first 45 selections in this draft has the potential to become a big-time impact player in the NHL. That's the case with every draft, but I think it's especially true this time around. I'm expecting this draft to produce a relatively high number of homeruns and I'm expecting many of them to be sleepers. Wings fans won't want to hear it, but trading down could be the smart play here.

Edited by Dabura

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13 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Because A) Wingers are less important to team success than centers and defensemen, B) This year's draft is heavy on offensive defensemen, C) Winger is a position of strength for us, D) There's the potential to get good centers later in the first round given that the top of the draft is full of defensemen. 

We need another good center, and a really good defenseman going forward.  We'll likely have two picks in the first round.  We can get two things that we need if only we don't use one of those picks on a winger. 

I mean what if we end up with the second pick? Go with need over best avail this year? 

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9 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I mean what if we end up with the second pick? Go with need over best avail this year? 

In that scenario I'd shop the pick to someone who REALLY wanted Svech, and take whatever futures they're willing to give.  If we don't draft #1 then I'd be fine with drafting somewhere 5-10.  Especially if that meant we'd get another 1st round pick.  Like I said elsewhere, I'd rather draft the best available defenseman at 5-10, and then a center at 15-25, than anything other than Dahlin.  Drafting someone like Dobson, Bouchard (who Buppy turned me on to) or Hughes early in the first, and Veleno or McBain later, plus getting additional picks for trading back from 2nd would be much better than taking a winger with the 2nd pick.

As deep as this draft is, I want as many picks in the top two rounds as possible and at least two in the first.  If I were the GM I'd trade Green AND one of Nyquist/Tatar and draft in the first three times.  Can you imagine how far along it would move our rebuild with three first rounders?  Take Larkin/Mantha/AA, plus Rasmussen, Cholowski, and Sarijaarvi/Hronek/Sambrook, plus three first rounders this year and your rebuild is very nearly done.

Edited by kipwinger

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2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Because A) Wingers are less important to team success than centers and defensemen, B) This year's draft is heavy on offensive defensemen, C) Winger is a position of strength for us, D) There's the potential to get good centers later in the first round given that the top of the draft is full of defensemen. 

We need another good center, and a really good defenseman going forward.  We'll likely have two picks in the first round.  We can get two things that we need if only we don't use one of those picks on a winger. 

Can we use one of our picks on a kipwinger? Although I understand that they tend to disappear for long periods of time.

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