Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

[kickazz 5,459]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

This. I want to believe Holland's mindset has changed and is now more focused on rebuilding / getting younger. He's already made some moves to support this. I just hope he doesn't revert back to his old ways and sign any 30+ year old UFA's... I don't think he will.

Vanek's value is pretty bad anyways. He doesn't seem to bring in much at the trade deadline. 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:36 PM, kickazz said:

Seriously. You think getting a RH forward is beneficial at this point? It's really not at all. 

2008 team had zero R handed forwards on the PP fyi

Samuelsson.img

Edited September 25, 2019 by krsmith17

[kickazz 5,459]

9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah I remembered him and took it out.  But he played on the point anyways like Green does.

Edited June 24, 2018 by kickazz

[chaps80 1,591]

Can't believe the Avs got Grubauer and Orpik for a 2nd rounder. The goalie i wanted in Detroit is now a ******* Av. Oh well, theres still options. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

7 hours ago, kickazz said:

Why? To win the Stanley Cup? 

Sounds like a pointless idea. 

But I bet Holland thinks we are playoff ready and sign him anyways. 

Just because u sign a vet doesn't mean ur trying to win a cup or push for the playoffs. He fills a position of need. Ideally if ur in a rebuild u fill ur roster with youth. Then u supplement the holes with free agents. 

If you want this team to become a well run machine, then u need all of its parts. If you don't have all brand new parts to do it, then you make a trip to junkyard for the parts u need until you can get all brand new ones. Better to have all the parts u need, even if some are older or lesser quality then to be missing some.

So again. If he fills a need, is signed short term for cheap, isn't hurting the youth movement, fits on the roster and under the cap, and has proven to have good chemistry with the team, and can be traded for assets later, its a good move IMO

 

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

7 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

You are giving me everything I want. Unfortunately Jeff Blashill would not give me everything I want. Not because "veteran bias" though, because reasons unexplained.

Stupid Blashill. Why can't he just let us be happy. Can't he see it was meant to be? I am giving you everything you want and need. Isnt that good enough? Why can't he just be supportive and understanding? Why can't he be happy for us?

[kickazz 5,459]

19 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Just because u sign a vet doesn't mean ur trying to win a cup or push for the playoffs. He fills a position of need. Ideally if ur in a rebuild u fill ur roster with youth. Then u supplement the holes with free agents. 

If you want this team to become a well run machine, then u need all of its parts. If you don't have all brand new parts to do it, then you make a trip to junkyard for the parts u need until you can get all brand new ones. Better to have all the parts u need, even if some are older or lesser quality then to be missing some.

So again. If he fills a need, is signed short term for cheap, isn't hurting the youth movement, fits on the roster and under the cap, and has proven to have good chemistry with the team, and can be traded for assets later, its a good move IMO

 

 

He doesn't fill any need. A right handed forward is just some bulls*** you guys made up here in LGW.com and some guy asked Ansar Khan on May 22nd.

Like I said the 2008 team didn't have any forwards on the PP (Samuellsen played on the point and so does Mike Green). 

The PP specialists as of now consist of Nyquist, Zetterberg, Larkin, Mantha, Zadina, AA, Abdelkader, Rasmussen (possibly) and Nielsen if needed. So where does Vanek fit in exactly? 

They only have 3-4 forwards at a time out on ice (most likely 3 on one unit and 4 on the other). There's 2 units and I just named 9 people.  

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

19 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If you want this team to become a well run machine, then u need all of its parts. If you don't have all brand new parts to do it, then you make a trip to junkyard for the parts

 

Which is what teams that are heading to the playoffs would do at trade deadline.... which we aren't looking like we are; and if we do we may sign someone then. 

19 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Better to have all the parts u need, even if some are older or lesser quality then to be missing some.

According to who/what? The "unlimited funds and cap space" theory proposed by Sir Scotty Bowman?

Edited June 25, 2018 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Stupid Blashill. Why can't he just let us be happy. Can't he see it was meant to be? I am giving you everything you want and need. Isnt that good enough? Why can't he just be supportive and understanding? Why can't he be happy for us?

Okay, so assuming Blashill is "stupid", and refuses to healthy scratch Glendening... Would you rather give a 22 year old Svechnikov an opportunity, or sign a 34 year old Vanek to a one year contract? Even without Vanek, there are likely 12 forwards "ahead of Svechnikov". Assuming there are no trades, and everyone is healthy, we have Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Zadina, Larkin, Mantha, Rasmussen, Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, and Svechnikov, with Witkowski as the regular healthy scratch.

Believe me, I'd be all for signing Vanek, or any UFA to a short term deal, if A) we trade a player or two this offseason, B) there are serious injuries in camp, or C) Blashill is willing to healthy scratch Glendening (not going to happen). But if it comes down to Svechnikov or Vanek, I pick Svech.

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, kickazz said:

He doesn't fill any need. A right handed forward is just some bulls*** you guys made up here in LGW.com and some guy asked Ansar Khan on May 22nd.

Like I said the 2008 team didn't have any forwards on the PP (Samuellsen played on the point and so does Mike Green). 

The PP specialists as of now consist of Nyquist, Zetterberg, Larkin, Mantha, Zadina, AA, Abdelkader, Rasmussen (possibly) and Nielsen if needed. So where does Vanek fit in exactly? 

They only have 3-4 forwards at a time out on ice (most likely 3 on one unit and 4 on the other). There's 2 units and I just named 9 people.  

No, seriously man, they do exist... I know it's crazy, but there are some forwards in the league that shoot right-handed... I seen one one time with my own two eyes... 

Seriously though, I disagree with you on this one. Just because the 2008 team didn't have any right-handed shots on the half-wall of their power-play, doesn't mean they wouldn't have benefited by having one. Their power-play ran at 20.7% that season. Maybe if they had an equally skilled right-handed shooter to plug in, their power-play percentage would have been slightly higher.

I don't want to get too deep into this again, but I strongly believe we should add at least one or two *young* right-handed snipers to our team over the next few season. And I do believe it makes a significant difference to a team's offense and power-play.

Zetterberg and Nyquist won't be here in 1-3 years. Athanasiou may or may not be. Same goes for Nielsen. Ideally, I'd like to see our two power-play units built something like this in a couple years...

Net front - Rasmussen and Bertuzzi / Svechnikov

Center - Larkin and Veleno / Athanasiou

Wingers - Zadina and Mantha (right side) RH Snipers ??? (left side)

Defense (quarterback) - Hronek and (Cholowski)???

[rwing 29]

8 hours ago, kickazz said:

He doesn't fill any need. A right handed forward is just some bulls*** you guys made up here in LGW.com and some guy asked Ansar Khan on May 22nd.

Like I said the 2008 team didn't have any forwards on the PP (Samuellsen played on the point and so does Mike Green). 

The PP specialists as of now consist of Nyquist, Zetterberg, Larkin, Mantha, Zadina, AA, Abdelkader, Rasmussen (possibly) and Nielsen if needed. So where does Vanek fit in exactly? 

They only have 3-4 forwards at a time out on ice (most likely 3 on one unit and 4 on the other). There's 2 units and I just named 9 people.  

 

What if we can get an ambidextrous forward? Hmmm? How about that!

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

No, seriously man, they do exist... I know it's crazy, but there are some forwards in the league that shoot right-handed... I seen one one time with my own two eyes... 

Seriously though, I disagree with you on this one. Just because the 2008 team didn't have any right-handed shots on the half-wall of their power-play, doesn't mean they wouldn't have benefited by having one. Their power-play ran at 20.7% that season. Maybe if they had an equally skilled right-handed shooter to plug in, their power-play percentage would have been slightly higher.

I don't want to get too deep into this again, but I strongly believe we should add at least one or two *young* right-handed snipers to our team over the next few season. And I do believe it makes a significant difference to a team's offense and power-play.

Zetterberg and Nyquist won't be here in 1-3 years. Athanasiou may or may not be. Same goes for Nielsen. Ideally, I'd like to see our two power-play units built something like this in a couple years...

Net front - Rasmussen and Bertuzzi / Svechnikov

Center - Larkin and Veleno / Athanasiou

Wingers - Zadina and Mantha (right side) RH Snipers ??? (left side)

Defense (quarterback) - Hronek and (Cholowski)???

Yeah they should get a young one. But signing Vanek in the cap era just for “handedness” in a non-playoff team sounds utterly stupid.  Unless Holland thinks we have a shot at the playoffs. 

If we’re signing any older free agents it’s to flip them at the trade deadline in case things don’t workout. Vanek’s value sucks. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by kickazz

[joesuffP 1,746]

What I’d like to see

 

Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi

Zadina-Zetterberg-Rasmussen

AA-Nielsen-Nyquist

Abdelkader-Glendening-Helm

Frk/Svechnikov

Dekeyser-Green

Daley-Ericsson

Kronwall-Jensen

Hicketts

[Dabura 12,207]

Look, I just want lots of old players. The more old players, the better.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, rwing said:

What if we can get an ambidextrous forward? Hmmm? How about that!

We had one. He wore #9.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, kickazz said:

Yeah they should get a young one. But signing Vanek in the cap era just for “handedness” in a non-playoff team sounds utterly stupid.  Unless Holland thinks we have a shot at the playoffs. 

If we’re signing any older free agents it’s to flip them at the trade deadline in case things don’t workout. Vanek’s value sucks. 

Playing kids on a well balanced roster is probably better for their development.

[TNWingedWheel 4]

4 hours ago, rwing said:

What if we can get an ambidextrous forward? Hmmm? How about that!

We should be able to
Supreme Court ruled gender discrimination illegal

[krsmith17 7,191]

40 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

What I’d like to see

Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi

Zadina-Zetterberg-Rasmussen

AA-Nielsen-Nyquist

Abdelkader-Glendening-Helm

Frk/Svechnikov

Dekeyser-Green

Daley-Ericsson

Kronwall-Jensen

Hicketts

IF Svechnikov is going to be your 14th forward (I dont think he should be), wouldn't it be better for his development to send him down to Grand Rapids?

[joesuffP 1,746]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

IF Svechnikov is going to be your 14th forward (I dont think he should be), wouldn't it be better for his development to send him down to Grand Rapids?

Yes he’ll slide in with injuries or if AA/Nyquist is traded. If he can bounce back we’ll have a tonne of offensive depth going forward

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

41 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Look, I just want lots of old players. The more old players, the better.

That's all I ask

[kickazz 5,459]

50 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Playing kids on a well balanced roster is probably better for their development.

You don’t handicap your cap space for a right handed shooter that might be beneficial for a total of 3 minutes a game lol. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

15 minutes ago, kickazz said:

You don’t handicap your cap space for a right handed shooter that might be beneficial for a total of 3 minutes a game lol. 

Vanek scored 38 pts in 48 games for us, including 15 goals.

Last year he had 41 pts in 61 games for Vancouver, including 17 goals. Then he went on to put up 15 pts in 19 games for Columbus after being traded.

I hardly think he's useful for only 3 minutes a game. The guy is still a very talented offensive threat. The issue I have with Vanek, is you have to give him almost exclusively offensive minutes cause he's not great in his own zone.

IMO his right handedness is being really overstated here. This is a guy that who can be inserted into almost any top 6 and produce effectively (and at a cheap price). Besides, he likes to play on his off-hand anyway, which doesn't make him a pure RHer in my book.

I follow KRS's logic here, that the reason you wouldn't want Vanek is to make more room for kids. I personally think the kids have enough room with Vanek on the roster. This team like always will have some injuries pile up, and whatever extra space you wanted will become available quickly.

 

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Vanek scored 38 pts in 48 games for us, including 15 goals.

Last year he had 41 pts in 61 games for Vancouver, including 17 goals. Then he went on to put up 15 pts in 19 games for Columbus after being traded.

I hardly think he's useful for only 3 minutes a game. The guy is still a very talented offensive threat. The issue I have with Vanek, is you have to give him almost exclusively offensive minutes cause he's not great in his own zone.

IMO his right handedness is being really overstated here. This is a guy that who can be inserted into almost any top 6 and produce effectively (and at a cheap price). Besides, he likes to play on his off-hand anyway, which doesn't make him a pure RHer in my book.

I follow KRS's logic here, that the reason you wouldn't want Vanek is to make more room for kids. I personally think the kids have enough room with Vanek on the roster. This team like always will have some injuries pile up, and whatever extra space you wanted will become available quickly.

 

I’m not saying Vanek actually legitimately sucks. I’m just saying his trade deadline value is bad and just bringing him once for PP as a right handed shooter like Neo wants is a bad idea. Vanek can score but that would only be useful for us if we were making a run. We have younger players who can score and will.

Besides, Vanek isn’t a player that makes the younger players better. He’s more the type that utilizes other good playmakers. If anything he would probably benefit from Larkin than the other way around. 

If we want vets to help the kids, should sign Joe Thornton. Otherwise stand pat with what we have in Zetterberg, Kronwall, Nielsen.

Edited June 25, 2018 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

51 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Vanek scored 38 pts in 48 games for us, including 15 goals.

Last year he had 41 pts in 61 games for Vancouver, including 17 goals. Then he went on to put up 15 pts in 19 games for Columbus after being traded.

I hardly think he's useful for only 3 minutes a game. The guy is still a very talented offensive threat. The issue I have with Vanek, is you have to give him almost exclusively offensive minutes cause he's not great in his own zone.

IMO his right handedness is being really overstated here. This is a guy that who can be inserted into almost any top 6 and produce effectively (and at a cheap price). Besides, he likes to play on his off-hand anyway, which doesn't make him a pure RHer in my book.

I follow KRS's logic here, that the reason you wouldn't want Vanek is to make more room for kids. I personally think the kids have enough room with Vanek on the roster. This team like always will have some injuries pile up, and whatever extra space you wanted will become available quickly.

Playing his off-wing is what makes him even more dangerous. Most snipers prefer their off-wing. Ovechkin plays the left side, Kucherov and Tarasenko play the right side, Mantha and Zadina both prefer the right side. Laine is the only sniper I can think of off the top of my head who usually plays his "correct" side.

Vanek is certainly still useful, but I think top 6 is a bit of a stretch. He's a solid top 9 scoring winger / power-play weapon. He should probably be looking to sign with a contender at this point in his career though.

I'd be open to signing Vanek if we trade one or two forwards for help on D. Otherwise, I think we have more than enough depth up front without signing any free agents.

If we were to sign him, and flip him at next year's deadline, the most we'd get would probably be a 4th round pick. To me, that's not worth keeping a younger player down in GR.