• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Dabura

Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

On 2/7/2019 at 12:47 PM, The 91 of Ryans said:

Blashill has shown plenty of signs that he's willing to play kids in the top 6 - 9 over vets. 

And Holland has made it clear he's evaluating Blashill based on youth development. 



So yeah, Nielsen on the 4th is no stretch and I'm sure the org. would be thrilled to have this problem 

Total Sidebar....

If we extend Blashill, does it follow that Holland remains as GM?  I think many people (including myself) would love to see Yzerman step in and take over as GM.  Would he be in on a resigning of Blash?  Would he only want the GM job if he had the ability to choose his own staff?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no idea, other than nostalgia, why anybody would want Yzerman over Holland.  Literally every single criticism of Holland is equally true of Yzerman as GM.  Plus, in case people aren't paying attention, our rebuild is actually going really really well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I have no idea, other than nostalgia, why anybody would want Yzerman over Holland.  Literally every single criticism of Holland is equally true of Yzerman as GM.  Plus, in case people aren't paying attention, our rebuild is actually going really really well. 

Really really well is exaggerating though; still no young goalie or top defensive player besides possibly 1 or 2 1B players in sight. Aka the defensive depth outside of Cholo, Hronek, MAYBE McIsaac, is a complete toss up. Larkin is a 2C at best so need a 1 center still. There’s still a lot of work that needs to be done and having a fresh perspective may help. Having said all this were still in a much better position than we were years ago. For instance our wingers are going to be really good. We should be set for 2-4 Center position easily for years to come. 

Far as Holland, GM tenure gets stale too not just coaches. It’s why Lou leaving Jersey for Toronto was probably a good thing for Toronto and now even the Islanders.

Let’s say Holland decided to part ways this summer and we were looking for a new GM, objectively speaking, Yzerman would still be a top candidate even if didn’t have the Red Wing history/nostalgia on his resume. He’s got a good track record as a GM and is a top candidate to fill any teams position at the moment. 

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Really really well is exaggerating though; still no young goalie or top defensive player besides possibly 1 or 2 1B players in sight. Larkin is a 2C at best so need a 1 center still. There’s still a lot of work that needs to be done and having a fresh perspective may help. 

GM tenure gets stale too not just coaches. It’s why Lou leaving Jersey for Toronto was probably a good thing for Toronto and now even the Islanders.

Let’s say Holland decided to part ways this summer and we were looking for a new GM, Yzerman would still be a top candidate even if didn’t have the Red Wing history on his resume. He’s got a good track record.

Ya let’s ignore the fact he turned Tampa into the top team in the league before leaving 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, kickazz said:

Larkin is a 2C at best so need a 1 center still.

I think at this point it's pretty safe to say he's a 1C. Maybe not an absolutely ideal 1C, but he can get the job done (with almost no help around him). 23 goals and 52 points in 54 games = 1C production.

I agree with your overall point tho. Saying the rebuild is going "really, really well" is probably overstating things a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, kickazz said:

Really really well is exaggerating though; still no young goalie or top defensive player besides possibly 1 or 2 1B players in sight. Aka the defensive depth outside of Cholo, Hronek, MAYBE McIsaac, is a complete toss up. Larkin is a 2C at best so need a 1 center still. There’s still a lot of work that needs to be done and having a fresh perspective may help. Having said all this were still in a much better position than we were years ago. For instance our wingers are going to be really good. We should be set for 2-4 Center position easily for years to come. 

Far as Holland, GM tenure gets stale too not just coaches. It’s why Lou leaving Jersey for Toronto was probably a good thing for Toronto and now even the Islanders.

Let’s say Holland decided to part ways this summer and we were looking for a new GM, objectively speaking, Yzerman would still be a top candidate even if didn’t have the Red Wing history/nostalgia on his resume. He’s got a good track record as a GM and is a top candidate to fill any teams position at the moment. 

We have plenty "young goalies", just none that are close yet. I would say that any of Larsson, Petruzzelli or Eliasson have as good a shot as any young goalie prospect to become a quality NHL starter. Projecting goalies is near impossible, but I would say the probability of at least one of those three panning out is fairly high.

I don't know how there's anyone still questioning Larkin being a legit 1C. He's not elite, but he absolutely is a number one center in the league. He's among the top 20-30 centers in just about every category, despite having relatively weak linemates. Imagine what he'd be able to do with an elite winger like Kucherov or Pastrnak. Hopefully he'll have one over the next couple years in Zadina, or Hughes / Kakko. He's still only 22 years old. Give him another year or two to continue his development, and some help on his wings, and he'll be over a point per game player for sure.

The biggest holes on this team right now in my opinion are top six right-handed sniper, 2nd line center, number one defenseman, and number one goalie. The top six right-handed sniper is not currently in the system, so we'll have to acquire one through the draft, free agency or trade. I don't think the number one defenseman is in the system, but teams have proven they can win without an elite, number one defenseman, as long as they have four or five really good defensemen. I think we should have three in the three that you mentioned, and maybe the other is in the system as well, or maybe we'll get one in the upcoming draft. I think Veleno will become our number two center, and like I mentioned above, I think one of the goalie prospects currently in the system will develop into a number one goaltender.

Holland has done a fantastic job the past couple years acquiring picks for the future. We had four picks in the top 36 last year and hopefully we'll have a similar number after the trade deadline again this year. If we can acquire another one or two picks in the top 40, and get lucky in the draft lottery (both likely), I really like our chances of filling another couple of those holes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, kickazz said:

Really really well is exaggerating though; still no young goalie or top defensive player besides possibly 1 or 2 1B players in sight. Aka the defensive depth outside of Cholo, Hronek, MAYBE McIsaac, is a complete toss up. Larkin is a 2C at best so need a 1 center still. There’s still a lot of work that needs to be done and having a fresh perspective may help. Having said all this were still in a much better position than we were years ago. For instance our wingers are going to be really good. We should be set for 2-4 Center position easily for years to come. 

Far as Holland, GM tenure gets stale too not just coaches. It’s why Lou leaving Jersey for Toronto was probably a good thing for Toronto and now even the Islanders.

Let’s say Holland decided to part ways this summer and we were looking for a new GM, objectively speaking, Yzerman would still be a top candidate even if didn’t have the Red Wing history/nostalgia on his resume. He’s got a good track record as a GM and is a top candidate to fill any teams position at the moment. 

If we had every single piece we needed to contend then the rebuild would be complete and we wouldn't be having this conversation.  We've got a very good up and coming team, with lots of talent at all positions (maybe outside of goalie).  And Holland was able to do so without a single top five pick.  That's pretty good work. 

9 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Ya let’s ignore the fact he turned Tampa into the top team in the league before leaving 

Next you'll give him credit for building the Canadian Olympic team. 

Yzerman has done a fine job.  But his job was made 100 percent easier by the fact that Stamkos and Hedman were already on the team when took the job.  It's also worth noting that people have criticized Holland for years for already having Yzerman, Fedorov, and Lidstrom on the team when he became GM, which is true. But at least he won with the team he inherited.  Stevie is still a little light on Cup wins as a GM for people to gush over him the way they do.

Edited by kipwinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

We have plenty "young goalies", just none that are close yet. I would say that any of Larsson, Petruzzelli or Eliasson have as good a shot as any young goalie prospect to become a quality NHL starter. Projecting goalies is near impossible, but I would say the probability of at least one of those three panning out is fairly high.

I don't know how there's anyone still questioning Larkin being a legit 1C. He's not elite, but he absolutely is a number one center in the league. He's among the top 20-30 centers in just about every category, despite having relatively weak linemates. Imagine what he'd be able to do with an elite winger like Kucherov or Pastrnak. Hopefully he'll have one over the next couple years in Zadina, or Hughes / Kakko. He's still only 22 years old. Give him another year or two to continue his development, and some help on his wings, and he'll be over a point per game player for sure.

The biggest holes on this team right now in my opinion are top six right-handed sniper, 2nd line center, number one defenseman, and number one goalie. The top six right-handed sniper is not currently in the system, so we'll have to acquire one through the draft, free agency or trade. I don't think the number one defenseman is in the system, but teams have proven they can win without an elite, number one defenseman, as long as they have four or five really good defensemen. I think we should have three in the three that you mentioned, and maybe the other is in the system as well, or maybe we'll get one in the upcoming draft. I think Veleno will become our number two center, and like I mentioned above, I think one of the goalie prospects currently in the system will develop into a number one goaltender.

Holland has done a fantastic job the past couple years acquiring picks for the future. We had four picks in the top 36 last year and hopefully we'll have a similar number after the trade deadline again this year. If we can acquire another one or two picks in the top 40, and get lucky in the draft lottery (both likely), I really like our chances of filling another couple of those holes.

With all the tools that we do have in the system, we could get a new GM who is willing to speed things up through trades and free agency and turn the rebuild pretty quick. 

It’s like the “stale voice” that I mentioned. When a new guy comes in he’s almost expected to do something different just like any new CEO during a company turnover would. 

We’ve got some pieces available, some promising players, bring a new guy in and let’s get fancy with it.

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, kickazz said:

Really really well is exaggerating though; still no young goalie or top defensive player besides possibly 1 or 2 1B players in sight. Aka the defensive depth outside of Cholo, Hronek, MAYBE McIsaac, is a complete toss up. Larkin is a 2C at best so need a 1 center still. There’s still a lot of work that needs to be done and having a fresh perspective may help. Having said all this were still in a much better position than we were years ago. For instance our wingers are going to be really good. We should be set for 2-4 Center position easily for years to come. 

Far as Holland, GM tenure gets stale too not just coaches. It’s why Lou leaving Jersey for Toronto was probably a good thing for Toronto and now even the Islanders.

Let’s say Holland decided to part ways this summer and we were looking for a new GM, objectively speaking, Yzerman would still be a top candidate even if didn’t have the Red Wing history/nostalgia on his resume. He’s got a good track record as a GM and is a top candidate to fill any teams position at the moment. 

2C at best?? Larkin is a ppg 22 year old. He's absolutely a #1 center already and may still become "elite" in the near future. Watch a game.

IDK what you're so convinced about with our future wingers. They are just as much a toss up as our goal prospects and D prospects.

"Babs voice is stale, he needs to go in favor of Blashill" said all the dumbest Red Wings fans

Ya'll will be calling to fire Yzerman within 2 seasons

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

We have plenty "young goalies", just none that are close yet. I would say that any of Larsson, Petruzzelli or Eliasson have as good a shot as any young goalie prospect to become a quality NHL starter. Projecting goalies is near impossible, but I would say the probability of at least one of those three panning out is fairly high.

I don't know how there's anyone still questioning Larkin being a legit 1C. He's not elite, but he absolutely is a number one center in the league. He's among the top 20-30 centers in just about every category, despite having relatively weak linemates. Imagine what he'd be able to do with an elite winger like Kucherov or Pastrnak. Hopefully he'll have one over the next couple years in Zadina, or Hughes / Kakko. He's still only 22 years old. Give him another year or two to continue his development, and some help on his wings, and he'll be over a point per game player for sure.

The biggest holes on this team right now in my opinion are top six right-handed sniper, 2nd line center, number one defenseman, and number one goalie. The top six right-handed sniper is not currently in the system, so we'll have to acquire one through the draft, free agency or trade. I don't think the number one defenseman is in the system, but teams have proven they can win without an elite, number one defenseman, as long as they have four or five really good defensemen. I think we should have three in the three that you mentioned, and maybe the other is in the system as well, or maybe we'll get one in the upcoming draft. I think Veleno will become our number two center, and like I mentioned above, I think one of the goalie prospects currently in the system will develop into a number one goaltender.

Holland has done a fantastic job the past couple years acquiring picks for the future. We had four picks in the top 36 last year and hopefully we'll have a similar number after the trade deadline again this year. If we can acquire another one or two picks in the top 40, and get lucky in the draft lottery (both likely), I really like our chances of filling another couple of those holes.

We need the islanders to start dropping f*** I thought at the least we’d have 3 of the top 35 picks but islanders being where they are is a total shock 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, kickazz said:

With all the tools that we do have in the system, we could get a new GM who is willing to speed things up through trades and free agency and turn the rebuild pretty quick. 

It’s like the “stale voice” that I mentioned. When a new guy comes in he’s almost expected to do something different just like any new CEO during a company turnover would. 

We’ve got some pieces available, some promising players, bring a new guy in and let’s get fancy with it.

Which pieces do you consider untouchable?  I'm pretty much open to any of our players being involved in a trade, including Larkin.  If Buffalo offers Dahlin for Larkin, I do it in less than a second.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

2C at best?? Larkin is a ppg 22 year old. He's absolutely a #1 center already and may still become "elite" in the near future. Watch a game.

IDK what you're so convinced about with our future wingers. They are just as much a toss up as our goal prospects and D prospects.

"Babs voice is stale, he needs to go in favor of Blashill" said all the dumbest Red Wings fans

Ya'll will be calling to fire Yzerman within 2 seasons

Yzerman doesn't even have the job yet and I already want him fired from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

If we had every single piece we needed to contend then the rebuild would be complete and we wouldn't be having this conversation.  We've got a very good up and coming team, with lots of talent at all positions (maybe outside of goalie).  And Holland was able to do so without a single top five pick.  That's pretty good work. 

Next you'll give him credit for building the Canadian Olympic team. 

Yzerman has done a fine job.  But his job was made 100 percent easier by the fact that Stamkos and Hedman were already on the team when took the job.  It's also worth noting that people have criticized Holland for years for already having Yzerman, Fedorov, and Lidstrom on the team when he became GM, which is true. But at least he won with the team he inherited.  Stevie is still a little light on Cup wins as a GM for people to gush over him the way they do.

Ok here we go with some more of your idiotic nonsense , yzerman didn’t sign undrafted players in Johnson and gourde? Was there for kucherov , point , vasilevsky and brought in McDonough and Miller but hey let’s s*** on the guy cause he was lucky to have stamkos and hedman

no ones disputing that hedman and stamkos are all stars but a lot of gms inherit great players, example mcdavid and oilers and a lot of the gms never accomplish anything , so instead of trying to s*** on one of the best players in wings history in favour of a gm who’s accomplished nothing in the last 10 yrs but give our team cap problems with horrible deals (those are the facts) why don’t you give credit to yzerman

and Holland won those cups prior to the cap era and had the best coach in hockey history behind the bench and that’s the facts not an excuse , Bowman is a legend 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dabura said:

Yzerman doesn't even have the job yet and I already want him fired from it.

As the progressive think tank that we are, LGW should just start the fire stevie memes now so that we can continue to be light years ahead of the curve

suck me HF boards

yzerman-is-toews-toews-is-yzerman-yzerma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, kickazz said:

With all the tools that we do have in the system, we could get a new GM who is willing to speed things up through trades and free agency and turn the rebuild pretty quick. 

It’s like the “stale voice” that I mentioned. When a new guy comes in he’s almost expected to do something different just like any new CEO during a company turnover would. 

We’ve got some pieces available, some promising players, bring a new guy in and let’s get fancy with it.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. I was basically just disagreeing with you on Larkin.

25 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

"Babs voice is stale, he needs to go in favor of Blashill" said all the dumbest Red Wings fans

Ya'll will be calling to fire Yzerman within 2 seasons

Babs voice was getting stale. It happens. Even the captain was sick of his s***. I definitely don't miss Babcock. Leafs fans are starting to feel the same way most Wings fans were feeling for the past couple years he was here. If he doesn't win with that roster in the next 2-3 years, he'll be out of Toronto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Which pieces do you consider untouchable?  I'm pretty much open to any of our players being involved in a trade, including Larkin.  If Buffalo offers Dahlin for Larkin, I do it in less than a second.

Well no s***. Which is why Buffalo would never make that trade.

If Winnipeg offers Laine for Athanasiou, I do it in less than a second...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. I was basically just disagreeing with you on Larkin.

Babs voice was getting stale. It happens. Even the captain was sick of his s***. I definitely don't miss Babcock. Leafs fans are starting to feel the same way most Wings fans were feeling for the past couple years he was here. If he doesn't win with that roster in the next 2-3 years, he'll be out of Toronto.

Leafs fans are disappointed he's taken them to the #4 team in the league? I knew they were ungrateful, but damn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Well no s***. Which is why Buffalo would never make that trade.

If Winnipeg offers Laine for Athanasiou, I do it in less than a second...

What/who do you think Larkin is worth?  A lot of people on here think he's untouchable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike Babcock has quickly become the most overrated coach in modern hockey. He's won 1 stanley cup and gets paid 50 million for some atrocious contract and has barely put a dent in the playoff run for the Leafs. The Leafs won't win a cup under current dumb contract he's on. They'll probably re-sign him though. 

And anyone who says "well he won all those Gold medals for Canada". That's like crediting the USA coach for the Basketball team in the Olympics and ignoring the fact that those teams had Kobe, Shaq, Lebron James, etc on them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

What/who do you think Larkin is worth?  A lot of people on here think he's untouchable.

He's untouchable. 22-year-old point-per-game centerman with great leadership qualities on a very fair long-term contract. Zero reason to move him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

What/who do you think Larkin is worth?  A lot of people on here think he's untouchable.

 

1 minute ago, kickazz said:

Mike Babcock has quickly become the most overrated coach in modern hockey. He's won 1 stanley cup and gets paid 50 million for some atrocious contract and has barely put a dent in the playoff run for the Leafs. The Leafs won't win a cup under current dumb contract he's on. They'll probably re-sign him though. 

And anyone who says "well he won all those Gold medals for Canada". That's like crediting the USA coach for the Basketball team in the Olympics and ignoring the fact that those teams had Kobe, Shaq, Lebron James, etc on them. 

Are you saying Tyronn Lue are Steve Kerr are NOT the best NBA coaches of this generation!!!

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

He's untouchable. 22-year-old point-per-game centerman with great leadership qualities on a very fair long-term contract. Zero reason to move him.

I have to agree with Cady here, Larkin is not untouchable. I have zero desire to trade him, but if the right offer came along, I'd move him. With that said, the chances of that happening are pretty much slim to none.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, kliq said:

 

Are you saying Tyronn Lue are Steve Kerr are NOT the best NBA coaches of this generation!!!

Mike Babcock is so good he turned Sidney Crosby, John Tavares, Patrice Bergeron, Ryan Getzlaf, Drew Doughty, Duncan Keith, Corey Perry, Rick Nash, Carey Price into Olympic champions.

Tyronn Lue is the reason Lebron James is who he is.  

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The interesting thing with the impending Yzerman regime change IMO is what he may do with the staff. I think he gives Blashill at least a season before he even considers coaching changes.

Now that Tampa is good, can he even realistically lure any of his staff with him? I would like Verbeek back, but he's already an executive there and is probably untouchable. Jamie Pushor has history with us, but again he's already so far up the chain IDK if it's feasible...

One of the pulls could be Antonin Routa Sr., one of Tampa's main European scouts, as his son already works for us as a Euro scout. Stevie's brother Chris is probably also a realistic pull, maybe Phil Osaer their tendy scout, and possibly some of his buddies from Team Canada??

Mark Howe is probably on his way out over the next few years, and our North American amateur scouts haven't really discovered anything of note besides Athanasiou, Jensen, and Bertuzzi over the past 10+ years, I'd be fine with whole sale changes there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Babs voice was getting stale. It happens. Even the captain was sick of his s***. 

Ye.

I think Holland ideology, hell even his presence is getting stale. He has nothing to prove here either. He's won 3/4 cups for this team and he's accomplished what he needed to. Yzerman would have a lot of motivation to prove himself to his fans in a GM role. If a new voice is needed I'd rather it be him than anyone else due to the fact that it's his home and it's a fan base that loves him and he'd want to keep them believing in him. Honestly he would have a lot of pressure on him and if anything that can be a good thing for a GM. 

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now