Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread

[AtlantaHotWings 988]

11 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Well you should see the sh*t on twitter cause everyone’s ready to suck him off 

Well everything I read people acting like he’s crosby

 

anyways don’t with the veleno talk , if anyone’s seen any other prospects live and has opinions on them I’m all ears 

I have seen this prospect out of the KHL looks pretty good passing and has unreal skills with the puck. His defense is absurd pick pockets people all the time. His name escapes oh wait it's something like Datsyuk? Issue is he is a bit older and has a family in Russia otherwise an ideal prospect. 

I loved Dats when he was here but that ship has sailed. I look at it as we lost Dats gained Cholo who is a piece of us moving forward.  He left due to family needs heck even StevieY has moved back due to family and he was a 3 hour flight from MI.  What if things flare back up for Dats he can't just jump on a plane to fix it on an off day. 

Guessing like others this is an agent ploy. 

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

50 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

I have seen this prospect out of the KHL looks pretty good passing and has unreal skills with the puck. His defense is absurd pick pockets people all the time. His name escapes oh wait it's something like Datsyuk? Issue is he is a bit older and has a family in Russia otherwise an ideal prospect. 

I loved Dats when he was here but that ship has sailed. I look at it as we lost Dats gained Cholo who is a piece of us moving forward.  He left due to family needs heck even StevieY has moved back due to family and he was a 3 hour flight from MI.  What if things flare back up for Dats he can't just jump on a plane to fix it on an off day. 

Guessing like others this is an agent ploy. 

 

Datsyuk leaving was for the best so nobody should complain he was a traitor , if he stayed we wouldn’t have cholowski and hronek , we’d be a better team so probably missed out out on zadina and Rasmussen ... Maybe our prospect pool is so sh*t and we’re close to the playoffs we don’t consider trading Tatar and don’t have veleno  

maybe if he doesn’t leave this team looks so god awful with no hope in sight so it was all beneficial to both sides 

as for datsyuk I still think he can bring something to a team ... and maybe his daughter being 15-16 now helps him to wanna leave for a year or 2 ? I know when I was that age I didn’t wanna hang out with my parents as much so maybe it’ll be easier to leave 

but anyways this is just some ploy from his agent for sure 

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Datsyuk leaving was for the best so nobody should complain he was a traitor , if he stayed we wouldn’t have cholowski and hronek , we’d be a better team so probably missed out out on zadina and Rasmussen ... Maybe our prospect pool is so sh*t and we’re close to the playoffs we don’t consider trading Tatar and don’t have veleno  

maybe if he doesn’t leave this team looks so god awful with no hope in sight so it was all beneficial to both sides 

If Datsyuk stayed, and honored the last year of his contract, we wouldn't have Hronek, but we might have still taken Cholowski with that pick that we traded to Arizona. Or maybe we would have taken Chychrun, who is arguably better (when healthy) than Cholowski. We also wouldn't have signed Nielsen to that 6 year, $31.5M contract.

How much better do you really think we would have been in the 2016-17 season with Datsyuk instead of Nielsen? Maybe slightly, but I doubt it would have been a drastic difference. We wouldn't have been a playoff team with or without Datsyuk. The team was on the decline regardless. Maybe Datsyuk gets us a few extra wins. Maybe we finish with 89 points (instead of 79) and end up in the Flyers' lottery slot and land Patrick instead of Rasmussen.

The following season Datsyuk's contract was up anyway, so he wouldn't have effected our 2017-18 standings. Maybe we're worse because we don't have Nielsen though, and we end up with Dahlin instead of Zadina. Or maybe because we didn't sign Nielsen in 2016, and Datsyuk was heading back to Russia in 2017, we go out and sign Marleau that offseason. Or maybe something else happens... maybe, maybe, maybe... Point is, while yes, Datsyuk leaving definitely changed what would have otherwise happened in Detroit, there's no way to say with any certainty if the team is better or worse from it.

The same can be said about any single player signing or not signing with a team. If we didn't sign Green back in 2015, this would be a dramatically different looking team. Would we be better or worse right now? There's no way of knowing for sure...

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

Bert-Larkin-Hughes

Athanasiou-Veleno-Mantha

Svechnikov-Nielssen-Rasmussen

Glendening-Helm-Abdelkader

Ehn/De La Rose

 

Choloski-Hronek

DeKeyser-Lindstrom

Sulak-MacIsaac

Saarijarvi

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

If Datsyuk stayed, and honored the last year of his contract, we wouldn't have Hronek, but we might have still taken Cholowski with that pick that we traded to Arizona. Or maybe we would have taken Chychrun, who is arguably better (when healthy) than Cholowski. We also wouldn't have signed Nielsen to that 6 year, $31.5M contract.

How much better do you really think we would have been in the 2016-17 season with Datsyuk instead of Nielsen? Maybe slightly, but I doubt it would have been a drastic difference. We wouldn't have been a playoff team with or without Datsyuk. The team was on the decline regardless. Maybe Datsyuk gets us a few extra wins. Maybe we finish with 89 points (instead of 79) and end up in the Flyers' lottery slot and land Patrick instead of Rasmussen.

The following season Datsyuk's contract was up anyway, so he wouldn't have effected our 2017-18 standings. Maybe we're worse because we don't have Nielsen though, and we end up with Dahlin instead of Zadina. Or maybe because we didn't sign Nielsen in 2016, and Datsyuk was heading back to Russia in 2017, we go out and sign Marleau that offseason. Or maybe something else happens... maybe, maybe, maybe... Point is, while yes, Datsyuk leaving definitely changed what would have otherwise happened in Detroit, there's no way to say with any certainty if the team is better or worse from it.

The same can be said about any single player signing or not signing with a team. If we didn't sign Green back in 2015, this would be a dramatically different looking team. Would we be better or worse right now? There's no way of knowing for sure...

Maybe I’m biased cause he’s a wing now but I think we’re better off with cholowski than chychrun , chychrun might have more size but I think cholowski is better d offensively and can help with the ppl and our defence outside of green can’t produce sh*t from the back end ... time will tell 

We might not have been a playoff team with datsyuk over Nielsen but don’t forget zetterberg was here as well and I’m sure we’d probably be one of the teams in the hunt for that spot and knowing ken Holland if we didn’t get nielsen as well he would have added someone else regardless to further boost our chances ... we’ll never know but I highly doubt we’d have been worse and got dahlin over zadina I think that’s just wishful thinking (trust me I’m pissed off we missed out on dahlin as well )

do you think if datsyuk stayed we would have traded Tatar? Cause i don’t, if we kept being a team on the playoff bubble he wouldn’t have dealt Tatar for picks and we wouldn’t have veleno +2 picks 

Yes there’s no way of knowing for sure but like you got your opinion I got mine  and my opinion is in the end if worked out for the best for both sides

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

22 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Bert-Larkin-Hughes

Athanasiou-Veleno-Mantha

Svechnikov-Nielssen-Rasmussen

Glendening-Helm-Abdelkader

Ehn/De La Rose

 

Choloski-Hronek

DeKeyser-Lindstrom

Sulak-MacIsaac

Saarijarvi

 

Mcisaac? Lindstrom? I know we suck but we shouldn’t rush all the prospects 

 

k won’t happen but whatever let’s have some fun

Bertuzzi Larkin stone

athanasiou nielsen mantha 

Kaakko datsyuk zadina 

Abdelkader turgeon glendening

delarose

trade helm/Rasmussen,daley for picks , d prospect(s)

 

karlsson hronek

green dekeyser 

Ericsson cholowski

sulak

 

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Mcisaac? Lindstrom? I know we suck but we shouldn’t rush all the prospects 

 

k won’t happen but whatever let’s have some fun

Bertuzzi Larkin stone

athanasiou nielsen mantha 

Kaakko datsyuk zadina 

Abdelkader turgeon glendening

delarose

trade helm/Rasmussen,daley for picks , d prospect(s)

 

karlsson hronek

green dekeyser 

Ericsson cholowski

sulak

 

 

Love Stone.  Not Karlsson anymore.

 

But we make the playoffs with that line up.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

3 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Mcisaac? Lindstrom? I know we suck but we shouldn’t rush all the prospects 

 

k won’t happen but whatever let’s have some fun

Bertuzzi Larkin stone

athanasiou nielsen mantha 

Kaakko datsyuk zadina 

Abdelkader turgeon glendening

delarose

trade helm/Rasmussen,daley for picks , d prospect(s)

 

karlsson hronek

green dekeyser 

Ericsson cholowski

sulak

 

 

Trade Rasmussen, a 19 year old top 9 pick, .............for picks? Good one.

 

31 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Bert-Larkin-Hughes

Athanasiou-Veleno-Mantha

Svechnikov-Nielssen-Rasmussen

Glendening-Helm-Abdelkader

Ehn/De La Rose

 

Choloski-Hronek

DeKeyser-Lindstrom

Sulak-MacIsaac

Saarijarvi

 

Veleno's your #2 C and no Zadina. Good one

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Trade Rasmussen, a 19 year old top 9 pick, .............for picks? Good one.

 

Veleno's your #2 C and no Zadina. Good one

Not a fan of Rasmussen and if you look closer I mentioned d prospects ... as in trade Rasmussen in a package for bean/fabbro 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 minute ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Not a fan of Rasmussen and if you look closer I mentioned d prospects ... as in trade Rasmussen in a package for bean/fabbro 

I must not have seen that through my tears of laughter. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

15 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Maybe I’m biased cause he’s a wing now but I think we’re better off with cholowski than chychrun , chychrun might have more size but I think cholowski is better d offensively and can help with the ppl and our defence outside of green can’t produce sh*t from the back end ... time will tell 

We might not have been a playoff team with datsyuk over Nielsen but don’t forget zetterberg was here as well and I’m sure we’d probably be one of the teams in the hunt for that spot and knowing ken Holland if we didn’t get nielsen as well he would have added someone else regardless to further boost our chances ... we’ll never know but I highly doubt we’d have been worse and got dahlin over zadina I think that’s just wishful thinking (trust me I’m pissed off we missed out on dahlin as well )

do you think if datsyuk stayed we would have traded Tatar? Cause i don’t, if we kept being a team on the playoff bubble he wouldn’t have dealt Tatar for picks and we wouldn’t have veleno +2 picks 

Yes there’s no way of knowing for sure but like you got your opinion I got mine  and my opinion is in the end if worked out for the best for both sides

Even if you think Cholowski is better than Chychrun, the Wings could have drafted him at 16 if the trade had not happened. Chances are, they had him in mind at 16 anyway, likely attempting the same trade they pulled off in 2013 when they traded back from 18 to 20 and still got their guy (Mantha) as well as the 58th overall pick (Bertuzzi).

If Detroit didn't trade Datsyuk's contract, they wouldn't have had room to add anything of significance because they would have been right up against the cap.

You don't think we would have been worse in the 2017-18 season without Nielsen (and Datsyuk)? We may not have been bad enough to drop 11 spots to land Dahlin, but it probably would have been close. Who knows...

If Datsyuk stayed for the final year of his contract, he would have likely walked the following season anyway. I don't know if we would have traded Tatar. That's my point. There's no way of knowing any of what would have or could have happened. It's all conjecture.

The difference is, I don't have an opinion. I have no idea if we would have been better off keeping or trading Datsyuk's contract. You're saying it benefitted us. Maybe. Maybe not...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I must not have seen that through my tears of laughter. 

Must not take much too make you laugh

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Even if you think Cholowski is better than Chychrun, the Wings could have drafted him at 16 if the trade had not happened. Chances are, they had him in mind at 16 anyway, likely attempting the same trade they pulled off in 2013 when they traded back from 18 to 20 and still got their guy (Mantha) as well as the 58th overall pick (Bertuzzi).

If Detroit didn't trade Datsyuk's contract, they wouldn't have had room to add anything of significance because they would have been right up against the cap.

You don't think we would have been worse in the 2017-18 season without Nielsen (and Datsyuk)? We may not have been bad enough to drop 11 spots to land Dahlin, but it probably would have been close. Who knows...

If Datsyuk stayed for the final year of his contract, he would have likely walked the following season anyway. I don't know if we would have traded Tatar. That's my point. There's no way of knowing any of what would have or could have happened. It's all conjecture.

The difference is, I don't have an opinion. I have no idea if we would have been better off keeping or trading Datsyuk's contract. You're saying it benefitted us. Maybe. Maybe not...

That’s true ... we wouldn’t of had hronek though most likely , Arizona was interested in that datsyuk contract 

I was talking as if datsyuk stuck around after his one year remaining deal ended and never left , think we’d be better off with him in the lineup over nielsen and his 33 pts , better enough to not land zadina and end up with 9-14th ... and if we were in a playoff hunt I don’t think we’d have traded Tatar and not end up with veleno and picks ... again this is just speculation and we’ll never know for certain

i find it hard to believe we would have walked away from datsyuk at 37, especially with the way we treat our veterans , I find it damn near impossible that we would have said we’re done with your services 

anyways this is my belief that datsyuk leaving the nhl and not staying opened up the possibilities of landing,hronek,veleno and other pieces that help our future ... and like you said we’ll never know but I’m sticking to my guns like you are yours 

 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

44 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

That’s true ... we wouldn’t of had hronek though most likely , Arizona was interested in that datsyuk contract 

I was talking as if datsyuk stuck around after his one year remaining deal ended and never left , think we’d be better off with him in the lineup over nielsen and his 33 pts , better enough to not land zadina and end up with 9-14th ... and if we were in a playoff hunt I don’t think we’d have traded Tatar and not end up with veleno and picks ... again this is just speculation and we’ll never know for certain

i find it hard to believe we would have walked away from datsyuk at 37, especially with the way we treat our veterans , I find it damn near impossible that we would have said we’re done with your services 

anyways this is my belief that datsyuk leaving the nhl and not staying opened up the possibilities of landing,hronek,veleno and other pieces that help our future ... and like you said we’ll never know but I’m sticking to my guns like you are yours 

You say that we would have been a better team, and finished between 9th-14th in the lottery. You're right, but that's my point. If we were 11 points better that season, we could have had Svechnikov instead of Zadina. The year before, if we finished 10 points better, we could have had Patrick instead of Rasmussen. It's a total crap shoot, and there's no way to know if we would have been better or worse based on keeping or trading Datsyuk's contract.

We wouldn't have "walked away from Datsyuk at 37". He would have walked away from us (gone back to Russia), like was his plan for the past several years.

I'm not "sticking to my guns". I'm just pointing out that there's no way you can say that Datsyuk leaving made the Red Wings a better team today. I have no opinion on the matter, because there's no way to know for sure.

 

[LeftWinger 4,962]

I too am in a 2019 rebuild. I'm not gone guys, this holiday season has just been so hard on my family. Take care of this place, I'll check in every so often.

FWIW, I'd take Datsyuk back. Those Russians play great into their 40's.

God Bless.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

27 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I too am in a 2019 rebuild. I'm not gone guys, this holiday season has just been so hard on my family. Take care of this place, I'll check in every so often.

FWIW, I'd take Datsyuk back. Those Russians play great into their 40's.

God Bless.

Best wishes dude!

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

You say that we would have been a better team, and finished between 9th-14th in the lottery. You're right, but that's my point. If we were 11 points better that season, we could have had Svechnikov instead of Zadina. The year before, if we finished 10 points better, we could have had Patrick instead of Rasmussen. It's a total crap shoot, and there's no way to know if we would have been better or worse based on keeping or trading Datsyuk's contract.

We wouldn't have "walked away from Datsyuk at 37". He would have walked away from us (gone back to Russia), like was his plan for the past several years.

I'm not "sticking to my guns". I'm just pointing out that there's no way you can say that Datsyuk leaving made the Red Wings a better team today. I have no opinion on the matter, because there's no way to know for sure.

 

Alright, there’s no way in knowing for certain but it is my opinion that we’d have been a better team if he stuck around never went back to Russia , thus impacting our draft rankings

The end 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Alright, there’s no way in knowing for certain but it is my opinion that we’d have been a better team if he stuck around never went back to Russia , thus impacting our draft rankings

The end 

What? I'm so confused... I thought you thought that him going back to Russia was a good thing for this team???

7 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Datsyuk leaving was for the best so nobody should complain...

Which is it?

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

What? I'm so confused... I thought you thought that him going back to Russia was a good thing for this team???

Which is it?

Obviously its the him going to Russia has benefitted the wings part , we just been going back and forth on this it’s messing with my head lmao 

anyways I’m datsyuk’d out until the day he signs somewhere or retires lol as I’m sure you are as well haha 

[krsmith17 7,191]

Nyquist, Howard and Daley traded at the deadline for 1st, 2nd, and 4th round picks respectively.
Win the draft lottery and draft Jack Hughes.
Howard re-signs for 2 years, $4.5AAV.
Jensen re-signs for 2 years, $2.25AAV.
Kronwall and Vanek retire.
Frk and Witkowski walk.
Ehn and de la Rose waived.

Hughes - Larkin - Mantha
Bertuzzi - Nielsen - Zadina
Rasmussen - Veleno - Athanasiou
Abdelkader - Glednening - Helm
Svechnikov / Turgeon

Cholowski - Green
Ericsson - Hronek
DeKeyser - Jensen
Hicketts

Howard
Bernier

[kickazz 5,459]

35 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Nyquist, Howard and Daley traded at the deadline for 1st, 2nd, and 4th round picks respectively.
Win the draft lottery and draft Jack Hughes.
Howard re-signs for 2 years, $4.5AAV.
Jensen re-signs for 2 years, $2.25AAV.
Kronwall and Vanek retire.
Frk and Witkowski walk.
Ehn and de la Rose waived.

Hughes - Larkin - Mantha
Bertuzzi - Nielsen - Zadina
Rasmussen - Veleno - Athanasiou
Abdelkader - Glednening - Helm
Svechnikov / Turgeon

Cholowski - Green
Ericsson - Hronek
DeKeyser - Jensen
Hicketts

Howard
Bernier

That defensive core gives me anxiety. 

Edited January 25, 2019 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

That defensive core gives me anxiety. 

And to think it should be (in theory) an upgrade to what we have this season...

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 hours ago, kickazz said:

That defensive core gives me anxiety. 

The unfortunate thing is, we don't really have any defensemen in the system to get all that excited about either. Hicketts likely won't ever be anything more than a filler, 6th/7th depth defenseman. I don't see Sulak or Saarijarvi ever becoming regular NHL defensemen. McIsaac and Lindstrom will likely become regulars, but probably not anything more than bottom pair defensemen. Maybe one of them becomes a top 4. One of Kotkansalo, Regula or Barton could make it, but the odds are against any of them being anything more than bottom pairing defensemen. I like Barton a lot, and he's the guy I hope can become our mid-round steal, ie; Letang, Yandle, Slavin...

I don't see much help on the horizon, and unless we get lucky in the upcoming draft, I don't see how we fix the blueline outside of a trade or free agency... I think we'll need to add at least one (more?) top pairing defenseman to truly become a legit contender over the next few years.

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The unfortunate thing is, we don't really have any defensemen in the system to get all that excited about either. Hicketts likely won't ever be anything more than a filler, 6th/7th depth defenseman. I don't see Sulak or Saarijarvi ever becoming regular NHL defensemen. McIsaac and Lindstrom will likely become regulars, but probably not anything more than bottom pair defensemen. Maybe one of them becomes a top 4. One of Kotkansalo, Regula or Barton could make it, but the odds are against any of them being anything more than bottom pairing defensemen. I like Barton a lot, and he's the guy I hope can become our mid-round steal, ie; Letang, Yandle, Slavin...

I don't see much help on the horizon, and unless we get lucky in the upcoming draft, I don't see how we fix the blueline outside of a trade or free agency... I think we'll need to add at least one (more?) top pairing defenseman to truly become a legit contender over the next few years.

Honestly I would say it may take 1-2 top defenseman (which I know is asking for a lot). I’m not overly optimistic about our future in goaltending either.

Would be one thing if we had a young Hasek coming in (much as I gave flack to Mrazek it really does suck he didn’t live up to expectations). Alright maybe not a world class like Hasek but even a prime Ryan Miller type would be nice. Maybe then we would have gotten away with the core you presented in your post. But without a high caliber goalie in sight, that defense really needs to get better for us to be a legit contender. 

I would hate for all this forward talent to go to waste the next 5-7 years while we’re still waiting and waiting to get better on defense 

Ergo; I think a trade is necessary within a couple of years of this build.

Edited January 25, 2019 by kickazz

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

 

 

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The unfortunate thing is, we don't really have any defensemen in the system to get all that excited about either. Hicketts likely won't ever be anything more than a filler, 6th/7th depth defenseman. I don't see Sulak or Saarijarvi ever becoming regular NHL defensemen. McIsaac and Lindstrom will likely become regulars, but probably not anything more than bottom pair defensemen. Maybe one of them becomes a top 4. One of Kotkansalo, Regula or Barton could make it, but the odds are against any of them being anything more than bottom pairing defensemen. I like Barton a lot, and he's the guy I hope can become our mid-round steal, ie; Letang, Yandle, Slavin...

I don't see much help on the horizon, and unless we get lucky in the upcoming draft, I don't see how we fix the blueline outside of a trade or free agency... I think we'll need to add at least one (more?) top pairing defenseman to truly become a legit contender over the next few years.

I disagree with you here.

Cholowski-Hronek

Sulak-Lindstrom

McIsaac-

 

All 5 of these guys play with their heads up and can skate.  They lack size and experience, but they all have the skill fundamentals.  Our defense right now is suffering from a lack of skill and speed.  Green and Jensen can move the puck, and that's why they are seeing the big minutes.  I agree with your assessment of none of these guys projecting out to 1A/1B though.  So we will need to acquire those 2 spots in the next 2-3 UFA/Draft periods.