Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Listen. I know you don't like to read other people posts. It's hard work. Especially ones more than a few words in length. But I was talking about his conditioning stint in the AHL. 

Na just yours actually 

And you wanna compare ahl stats go check brannstrom and his 28 pts in 41 games as a 19 yr old rookie coming to North America playing defense which is a lot harder than playing wing 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Is being "sent down" only to Grand Rapids now?  He had another year of junior eligibility.  If he was so un-worthy of an NHL roster spot he could have been sent down.  Lots of other players from his draft class still are. 

Sure, he could have been sent back to junior, but that probably wasn't the best thing for his development. He could not be sent down to GR, and that's the point. Do you think if he was AHL eligible he would be playing in the NHL regardless? 

[kipwinger 8,772]

10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Got it. Never trade for prospects because their NHL projection is up in the air. You never know what you're getting. So many dumb GM's in the NHL making dumb trades... If only they were as smart as kipwinger...

No, I like anyone's comments that I agree with. I completely agree with this...

 

Correct, never trade a player for another player if there's a good reason to believe the second player will not turn out better than the first.  You don't have to be as smart as me.  You could be as smart as the actual Kip Winger.  Because even a washed up, druggie, hair metal rocker from the 80's probably knows not to trade something for something else without knowing that the later has more value than the former. 

Do you seriously think it's a good idea to trade something without knowing the value of the thing you're getting back?  Because I've got this mystery box...

Edited February 27, 2019 by kipwinger

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

1 minute ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Na just yours actually 

And you wanna compare ahl stats go check brannstrom and his 28 pts in 41 games as a 19 yr old rookie coming to North America playing defense which is a lot harder than playing wing 

Why are you talking about Brannstrom Jr stats? Real dominant/ //////////////

[kipwinger 8,772]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Sure, he could have been sent back to junior, but that probably wasn't the best thing for his development. He could not be sent down to GR, and that's the point. Do you think if he was AHL eligible he would be playing in the NHL regardless? 

Don't know.  I know in the three AHL games he played he looked totally dominant.  Enough to earn a call up had he started the season there. So, maybe?

I mean, Christopher Ehn made the team out of camp and played a bunch of games.  So, why do you think Rasmussen would play in the AHL?  There were open NHL roster spots and Ras is clearly better than Ehn and Frk, so yeah, he probably would have made the big club regardless of AHL eligibility. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by kipwinger

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Why are you talking about Brannstrom Jr stats? Real dominant/ //////////////

Why you getting your dick hard for 15 pts? 2 pts in 3 ahl games ?

Ya real dominant 

last I checked this teams been in desperate need for defense since lidstrom retired, yet we passed on good dmen that draft Cause Rasmussen’s 6’5. That whole draft we seemed to go for skill and size and grit and passing on a brannstrom,Foote,valimaki for Rasmussen will one day come back to bite us 

we need to draft elite defensemen cause no ones giving them to us , sorry it’s hard for you to understand that 

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Don't know.  I know in the two AHL games he played he looked totally dominant.  Enough to earn a call up had he started the season there. So, maybe?

He’d 100% be playing in the ahl  and not wasting away on a 4th line barely getting minutes 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Correct, never trade a player for another player if there's a good reason to believe the second player will not turn out better than the first.  You don't have to be as smart as me.  You could be as smart as the actual Kip Winger.  Because even a washed up, druggie, hair metal rocker from the 80's probably knows not to trade someone for something else without knowing that the later has more value than the former. 

Do you seriously think it's a good idea to trade someone without knowing the value of the thing you're getting back?  Because I've got this mystery box...

So what if you do think the latter has more value than the former? You still don't make the trade because you don't "know" for sure? Like I said, so many dumb GM's... Why are they all making trades for these unknown "mystery boxes"... F***ing idiots...

 

[kipwinger 8,772]

16 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Why you getting your dick hard for 15 pts? 2 pts in 3 ahl games ?

Ya real dominant 

last I checked this teams been in desperate need for defense since lidstrom retired, yet we passed on good dmen that draft Cause Rasmussen’s 6’5. That whole draft we seemed to go for skill and size and grit and passing on a brannstrom,Foote,valimaki for Rasmussen will one day come back to bite us 

we need to draft elite defensemen cause no ones giving them to us , sorry it’s hard for you to understand that 

He’d 100% be playing in the ahl  and not wasting away on a 4th line barely getting minutes 

Again, Christopher Ehn made the team out of camp and played most of the season.  Is your position that if Rasmussen had AHL eligibility that he'd be lower on the depth chart than both Ehn AND another GR forward?  Someone has to take that spot. 

14 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So what if you do think the latter has more value than the former? You still don't make the trade because you don't "know" for sure? Like I said, so many dumb GM's... Why are they all making trades for these unknown "mystery boxes"... F***ing idiots...

 

I don't think the evidence backs this up at this point.  If there was reason to believe, based on his play this year, that Quinn Hughes was going to be a better NHL player than Rasmussen then I'd make the trade.  But I don't think his play has backed that up.  He might be better, he might not.  And because I don't feel convinced, I wouldn't make the trade. 

Edit: Further, Hughes' play hasn't convinced me that he's any better than the small, offensive, power play specialist we've already got (Filip Hronek).  So I DEFINITELY wouldn't trade away someone with Rasmussens's upside for him. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Again, Christopher Ehn made the team out of camp and played most of the season.  Is your position that if Rasmussen had AHL eligibility that he'd be lower on the depth chart than both Ehn AND another GR forward?  Someone has to take that spot. 

Ehn is at best a 4th line forward. Rasmussen should be a top six forward. So yes, playing Ehn in Detroit over Rasmussen, while he got big minutes in Grand Rapids, would have probably been the best thing for his development (if that were an option). 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Again, Christopher Ehn made the team out of camp and played most of the season.  Is your position that if Rasmussen had AHL eligibility that he'd be lower on the depth chart than both Ehn AND another GR forward?  Someone has to take that spot. 

Ehn is also 22, played with men in Europe and is a 4th line player barely getting ice time 

has nothing to do with who’s above who on the depth chart , zadina would be higher on the prospect chart but isn’t in the nhl to start, wings have always let kids go down and get a ton of ice time with Larkin being the exception and Rasmussen didn’t exactly light it up in the pre season 

Rasmussen only started here cause it was juniors or nhl , it’s that simple 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by nyqvististhefuture

[kipwinger 8,772]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

Ehn is at best a 4th line forward. Rasmussen should be a top six forward. So yes, playing Ehn in Detroit over Rasmussen, while he got big minutes in Grand Rapids, would have probably been the best thing for his development (if that were an option). 

That's a different question.  You asked "Do you think if he was AHL eligible he would be playing in the NHL regardless?".  My answer is "yes" because clearly Detroit had a need for two rookies this season, and he's one of the best two. 

Here you go changing things again. Is the question now "what's best for Michael Rasmussen's development"?  

4 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Ehn is also 22, played with men in Europe and is a 4th line player barely getting ice time 

has nothing to do with who’s above who on the depth chart , zadina would be higher on the prospect chart but isn’t in the nhl to start, wings have always let kids go down and get a ton of ice time with Larkin being the exception and Rasmussen didn’t exactly light it up in the pre season 

Rasmussen only started here cause it was juniors or nhl , it’s that simple 

 

It has everything to do with it.  There were two open roster spots in Detroit at the beginning of the season.  Rasmussen and Ehn filled those spots.  You're making it seem like Rasmussen is only in the NHL because he can't be sent to the AHL, when in reality two rookies were going to make the NHL team this year and I don't know why Rasmussen wouldn't have been one of them. 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

24 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That's a different question.  You asked "Do you think if he was AHL eligible he would be playing in the NHL regardless?".  My answer is "yes" because clearly Detroit had a need for two rookies this season, and he's one of the best two. 

Here you go changing things again. Is the question now "what's best for Michael Rasmussen's development"?  

It has everything to do with it.  There were two open roster spots in Detroit at the beginning of the season.  Rasmussen and Ehn filled those spots.  You're making it seem like Rasmussen is only in the NHL because he can't be sent to the AHL, when in reality two rookies were going to make the NHL team this year and I don't know why Rasmussen wouldn't have been one of them. 

Because he’s a 9th overall pick and should be given tons of ice time to complete his game and get more offensive opportunities to become a better player overall 

you look at past track record Larkin is the exception to the rule plain and simple. The wings would have been fine with Rasmussen starting down if we could, we have a ton of players capable of being 10-13th forward guys , frk would have simply just played more games 

I’d be preparing myself for Rasmussen starting down next season in Grand Rapids and eventually being called up if I were you so it won’t come as a complete shock when it happens

Edited February 27, 2019 by nyqvististhefuture

[krsmith17 7,191]

14 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That's a different question.  You asked "Do you think if he was AHL eligible he would be playing in the NHL regardless?".  My answer is "yes" because clearly Detroit had a need for two rookies this season, and he's one of the best two. 

Here you go changing things again. Is the question now "what's best for Michael Rasmussen's development"?  

How is it clear that Detroit had a "need for two rookies this season"? They had enough players that could have filled the 14 forward slots, and had Rasmussen start in Grand Rapids. If Rasmussen was AHL eligible, I think it was highly likely he would have started down there. He might have gotten a taste of the NHL at some point, but probably similar to Zadina, 9 game stint to slide his ELC.

You mentioned that Rasmussen "looked totally dominant" down in GR... Did you actually watch those games? Or are you just basing that on his stats? I watched 2 of the 3 games he played, and he looked good, but far from dominant in my opinion. By the way, Ras and Zadina have the exact same points per game in the AHL, and most seem to think Zadina isn't / wasn't ready. Neither had a great showing in training camp / pre-season. I think if the option were there, they both would have been in GR.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

How is it clear that Detroit had a "need for two rookies this season"? They had enough players that could have filled the 14 forward slots, and had Rasmussen start in Grand Rapids. If Rasmussen was AHL eligible, I think it was highly likely he would have started down there. He might have gotten a taste of the NHL at some point, but probably similar to Zadina, 9 game stint to slide his ELC.

You mentioned that Rasmussen "looked totally dominant" down in GR... Did you actually watch those games? Or are you just basing that on his stats? I watched 2 of the 3 games he played, and he looked good, but far from dominant in my opinion. By the way, Ras and Zadina have the exact same points per game in the AHL, and most seem to think Zadina isn't / wasn't ready. Neither had a great showing in training camp / pre-season. I think if the option were there, they both would have been in GR.

Ya I don’t understand the 2 rookies logic , and this team is well known for having way too many bottom line guys and would have been just fine

[kipwinger 8,772]

21 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

How is it clear that Detroit had a "need for two rookies this season"? They had enough players that could have filled the 14 forward slots, and had Rasmussen start in Grand Rapids. If Rasmussen was AHL eligible, I think it was highly likely he would have started down there. He might have gotten a taste of the NHL at some point, but probably similar to Zadina, 9 game stint to slide his ELC.

You mentioned that Rasmussen "looked totally dominant" down in GR... Did you actually watch those games? Or are you just basing that on his stats? I watched 2 of the 3 games he played, and he looked good, but far from dominant in my opinion. By the way, Ras and Zadina have the exact same points per game in the AHL, and most seem to think Zadina isn't / wasn't ready. Neither had a great showing in training camp / pre-season. I think if the option were there, they both would have been in GR.

First Bold: So Rasmussen jumped several NHL players on the depth chart and you're using this as proof that he would have started in the AHL if he could?  Ok, man.  Rasmussen (and Zadina) is on the exact same developmental trajectory as Larkin.  Drafted, played outside the NHL in his draft plus one season, played in the NHL the year after that.  Given how skilled he is, and now physically mature he is, this seems totally reasonable to me.  Zadina, being more skilled than both Larkin AND Rasmussen is playing his draft plus one in the highest non-NHL league in North America, he'll be in the NHL next year.  So kudos to him.  But they're all on the same developmental trajectory and should be. 

Second Bold:  Yes, I did watch the games.  He did everything he should have done to prove he'd be dominant at the AHL level.  Won puck battles, scored goals in front of the net, hung on to the puck and made plays (particularly below the goal line), was great on the cycle. And did it all against top AHL competition. Maybe the reason he didn't seem dominant to you was because he was recovering from injury, and not because he's not obviously too good for that league. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by kipwinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Sorry i asked...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

30 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Sorry i asked...

This is all YOUR fault 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

NHL roster spots arent always filled by "Who are the the best 23 guys under contract?" Moose could very well have been better than Ehn, Frk, etc. But if its better for his development to log big minutes in GR than bottom 6 minutes in Detroit, than it would make sense to send him down.

That was never a choice, so we'll never know for sure if that's what would have happened. The team obviously felt that getting sheltered minutes in the NHL was better than sending him back to juniors, which is why he is up now. But based on past history with this team, I don't think its a stretch at all to think he would have started the season in GR.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

This is all YOUR fault 

story of my life

[kipwinger 8,772]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

NHL roster spots arent always filled by "Who are the the best 23 guys under contract?" Moose could very well have been better than Ehn, Frk, etc. But if its better for his development to log big minutes in GR than bottom 6 minutes in Detroit, than it would make sense to send him down.

That was never a choice, so we'll never know for sure if that's what would have happened. The team obviously felt that getting sheltered minutes in the NHL was better than sending him back to juniors, which is why he is up now. But based on past history with this team, I don't think its a stretch at all to think he would have started the season in GR.

As I've stated elsewhere he's on the exact same developmental trajectory as Larkin was and Zadina is.  Totally befitting a top ten pick. 

Also, prior to the season both Ryan Martin and Kris Draper discussed how the Wings were interested in speeding up the development process to get some of the more talented prospects into the NHL faster.  They did exactly that with Rasmussen and now you and KRsmith are suggesting that they didn't really want to do it, but HAD to because he was ineligible for the AHL.  Seems like confirmation bias to me. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

37 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

As I've stated elsewhere he's on the exact same developmental trajectory as Larkin was and Zadina is.  Totally befitting a top ten pick. 

Also, prior to the season both Ryan Martin and Kris Draper discussed how the Wings were interested in speeding up the development process to get some of the more talented prospects into the NHL faster.  They did exactly that with Rasmussen and now you and KRsmith are suggesting that they didn't really want to do it, but HAD to because he was ineligible for the AHL.  Seems like confirmation bias to me. 

No. I said we don't know because it was never an option.

Also I think the comments by Draper were more about moving away from the "overripe"  mentality which existed for years, which a rebuilding team can't afford to do. The idea that you can expedite development is ludicrous. And I don't think that's what he was inferring, just that the team is moving away from keeping kids down longer than necessary and bringing them in as soon as they are ready.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Winning team full of veterans
"We like to make sure our prospects are overripe first"

Sucky team hemorrhaging veterans
"We'd like to speed up the development of some of our prospects"

It's like their strategy changes depending on the circumstances or something

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Holland will not do this, but I will. Here is my 2019 off season (with us winning Jack Hughes.)

First, I buyout BOTH Ericsson and Daley at a cap hit of $2.1M for the season, and even less the next. Of course Franzen and Z are moved to LTIR, opening up TONS of cap space.  So here is my hopeful 2019-2020 Red Wings:

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Good news on the Darren Helm NTC.  It states that NTC can be VOIDED between 6-15-2019 and the 2019-2020 TDL IF player is not in the top 9 TOI for forwards OR Team fails to make the playoffs. Well, June is approaching and obviously we did not qualify for the playoffs, so his NTC can be voided if they want to trade him at the draft or beyond! Plus he's ranked 11th in TOI for forwards to boot!

Edited February 28, 2019 by LeftWinger