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SwedeLundin77

Andreas Athanasiou Officially Signed 2 yrs. $3M AAV

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6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

That has been a criticism about him for a while now. It comes from coaches, analysts, broadcasters, sports journalists, etc. Let's try not to pretend that all of this is just being made up. If he wasn't doing it, nobody would be talking about it. He does it, and it needs to be corrected.

To be fair, AA doesn't suck. He has the potential to top out as a 2nd line winger IMO.Although I think its more likely he's a middle 6 guy. Like Helm, I don't see him as a natural center, although he may be able to contribute there from time to time. I also believe that he could be a much BETTER player if he would be more willing to listen to coaching and work on playing a more well rounded 200 foot game. I want AA to change his ways because I want him to be a better hockey player, to succeed. We should all want that. My criticism of him is based on the fear that he won't learn and continue to cheat on D, relying almost entirely on his speed to survive. Speed doesn't last forever, and if he doesn't learn to contribute more in other areas, his NHL career may end up being shorter than any of us (AA included) would like it to be.

Proof - the 6 seconds into OT goal.  He's hanging around the Red line looking for a pass, not playing any defense.  Coach should scratch him for that laziness.

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On 7/10/2018 at 1:56 AM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I literally have no idea what you're talking about. I gave stats/facts regarding AA and that was met with "weak argument". I then repeated well known criticisms about AA's game and the response was "you're talking out of your ass." I gave facts. I didnt make any of it up. Its all out there and available to anyone. Its not my fault if you choose to ignore it and dismiss it "cuz Z". Thats not debating, neither is replying "exactly" or "that's how you debate" or "you got pwned". Maybe try actually participating in the discussion instead of jumping onto someone else's posts. I'd be interested to know what you think.

The only factual evidence you gave was "113% more likely to score on a breakaway"

You could have given your peewee size and your argument would shoot up 20 times in strength. All you've said was "He sucks on defense because that's what everyone says". 

Well the christian church thought the earth was flat and everyone believed it but the math freaks said otherwise. 

From the math I provided, AA is about as good as Nyquist on defense or better. 

And the fact that you think him being on PK isn't because he's defensively aware and rather it's simply about his speed is roflmao. No coach in their right mind would put a "defensively liable" player on the PK. So by deduction either AA is good enough defensively to be put on the PK or Blashill is a moron. 

Edited by kickazz

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3 hours ago, kickazz said:

The only factual evidence you gave was "113% more likely to score on a breakaway"

You could have given your peewee size and your argument would shoot up 20 times in strength. All you've said was "He sucks on defense because that's what everyone says". 

Well the christian church thought the earth was flat and everyone believed it but the math freaks said otherwise. 

From the math I provided, AA is about as good as Nyquist on defense or better. 

And the fact that you think him being on PK isn't because he's defensively aware and rather it's simply about his speed is roflmao. No coach in their right mind would put a "defensively liable" player on the PK. So by deduction either AA is good enough defensively to be put on the PK or Blashill is a moron. 

Not true. I'll post them again.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/a/athanan01.html

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nyquigu01.html

Remember? The stats that you said were a "weak argument" because Nyquist plays with Z? I guess we shouldn't keep stats at all then.

Yep. These 2 things are totally comparable.

How good either of them is not the point. Only one is interested in playing defense on a consistent basis. That's the problem.

Same deduction also says that a coach is going to put the players on the ice for a power play that are most likely to score. Interesting to see that Nyquist gets more PP than AA. I guess that's because AA is better? Four forwards on the ice with a man advantage and still no AA? Huh. If AA was better than he would get more PP time than Nyquist. And it's not because of the PK. If AA was that skilled of a player, there are plenty of other guys who could be put on the PK to give AA more PP time. 

 

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1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Not true. I'll post them again.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/a/athanan01.html

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nyquigu01.html

Remember? The stats that you said were a "weak argument" because Nyquist plays with Z? I guess we shouldn't keep stats at all then.

Yep. Nyquist plays with the most superior and smarter playmaker on the team. What's your point? Larkin was -9 last season. Z was the only top 6 guy that was +1. And even then Nyquist somehow managed to be in the minus. 

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yep. These 2 things are totally comparable.

Appeal to ignorance. Logical fallacy. "AA is worse defensively because he's always floating and getting breakaways" even though statistically AA is either greater than or equal to Nyquist defensively. 

Edited by kickazz

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1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

How good either of them is not the point. Only one is interested in playing defense on a consistent basis. That's the problem.

Except that he does play defense lol. On something called a penalty kill. Does Nyquist even know how to kill a penalty. 

What's interesting is this was AA's only second full season too. Nyquist has had about 5ish under his belt. A comparison being made between the two already speaks volumes for AA. 

Edited by kickazz

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1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Same deduction also says that a coach is going to put the players on the ice for a power play that are most likely to score. Interesting to see that Nyquist gets more PP than AA. I guess that's because AA is better? Four forwards on the ice with a man advantage and still no AA? Huh. If AA was better than he would get more PP time than Nyquist. And it's not because of the PK. If AA was that skilled of a player, there are plenty of other guys who could be put on the PK to give AA more PP time. 

 

Let me simplify it for you again. If AA was bad defensively like you claim. Then no coach would put him on a defensive situation on a penalty kill. 

 

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The place where I see AA do a bad habit frequently is when there is a battle for the puck in the offensive zone. The other player has half a step on AA and he reaches around the player with one hand on the stick and attempts to poke check. The dreaded poke and hope.

 

AA was put on the PK in hopes that it would teach him to play better defense. If you poke and hope on the PK you easily get burned.

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If AA eliminates that poke and hope move from his game by first moving to be on the defensive side if the puck then he'll be better off in two ways. 

One, he will give up fewer goals and that will help his +-.

Two, he'll get more minutes from the coach.

He's so fast that he'll still get breakout chances even when being a little bit more defensive.

If that plays out this season then I think 3 Mil per season will seem cheap. Fingers crossed!

 

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2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

That's what I call my pickup strategy when I'm at the bar

Works a lil differently thou

bill.gif

Not an accurate gif. Cosby used the "Poke and Dope" method.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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On 7/12/2018 at 7:58 PM, kickazz said:

 

What's interesting is this was AA's only second full season too. Nyquist has had about 5ish under his belt. A comparison being made between the two already speaks volumes for AA. 

When Nyquist turned 24, he had 4 goals and 9 assists.  AA turns 24 in August.  He has 44 goals and 33 assists so far.  Comparing these 2 players is laughable.  Nyquist doesn't do anything better than Athanasiou EXCEPT keep his mouth shut so he can gobble up all the good minutes with Z and Mantha.  

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On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:46 PM, Jonas Mahonas said:

Proof - the 6 seconds into OT goal.  He's hanging around the Red line looking for a pass, not playing any defense.  Coach should scratch him for that laziness.

Hanging around the red line?  This must be sarcastic or perhaps you should re-watch that goal, Larkin won the faceoff and AA chased the puck and got a very fortunate bounce off Karlsson. 

 Anyways either way I wont deny AA needs to up his defensive game but a lot of those plays of him looking for breakout passes are indeed set plays.  You can see Larkin curl back a lot of the time trying to create time for AA to get time to break free, and when you have a player with his quick acceleration and high top end speed why not use it.

Edited by 13dangledangle

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3 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

When Nyquist turned 24, he had 4 goals and 9 assists.  AA turns 24 in August.  He has 44 goals and 33 assists so far.  Comparing these 2 players is laughable.  Nyquist doesn't do anything better than Athanasiou EXCEPT keep his mouth shut so he can gobble up all the good minutes with Z and Mantha.  

he's also better at accepting money for which he does not earn.

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2 hours ago, 13dangledangle said:

 Anyways either way I wont deny AA needs to up his defensive game but a lot of those plays of him looking for breakout passes are indeed set plays.  You can see Larkin curl back a lot of the time trying to create time for AA to get time to break free, and when you have a player with his quick acceleration and high top end speed why not use it.

Because people here are still stuck in the Canadian hockey mentality that everyone has to be an amazing two-way player.  I Remember I used to be like that too

Edited by kickazz

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21 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Because people here are still stuck in the Canadian hockey mentality that everyone has to be a two-way player.  I Remember I used to be like that too

I want him to realize his potential, become the best player he's capable of being. What he is right now is a middle-six winger who lives and dies by dramatic knife-thrust rushes through neutral ice. That won't get him very far. If he grows his game, works on becoming a better playmaker, works on setting up and executing high-level cycle plays in the o-zone, works on being more engaged on the defensive side of the puck (which will lead to more offense), works on playing "in the guts of the game," works on protecting the puck and winning board battles...he could be a really great player.

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40 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I want him to realize his potential, become the best player he's capable of being. What he is right now is a middle-six winger who lives and dies by dramatic knife-thrust rushes through neutral ice. That won't get him very far. If he grows his game, works on becoming a better playmaker, works on setting up and executing high-level cycle plays in the o-zone, works on being more engaged on the defensive side of the puck (which will lead to more offense), works on playing "in the guts of the game," works on protecting the puck and winning board battles...he could be a really great player.

Ovechkin, Crosby, Patrick Kane, Sedins, Perry many more offensive juggernauts all below average on defense. Half the guys mentioned dont even backcheck. 

AA has had less than 2 full seasons in the NHL. Last season he missed those 20 games or so because of the contract issue so really this was the first full season. 71 games. 

Converted from a natural center to winger. 

He doesn't need to be a two-way player. That s*** is a myth. 

Agree that he can continue increasing his playmaking, cycling ability. But again, not even two NHL seasons.

Buppy may have become jaded now but I agree with him that a lot of people turning on this guy already is ridiculous. 

Z, D didn't become top 6 players till like their 3rd FULL NHL season.

Everyone needs to calm down.  

Edited by kickazz

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57 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Ovechkin, Crosby, Patrick Kane, Sedins, Perry many more offensive juggernauts all below average on defense. Half the guys mentioned dont even backcheck. 

AA has had less than 2 full seasons in the NHL. Last season he missed those 20 games or so because of the contract issue so really this was the first full season. 71 games. 

Converted from a natural center to winger. 

He doesn't need to be a two-way player. That s*** is a myth. 

Agree that he can continue increasing his playmaking, cycling ability. But again, not even two NHL seasons.

Buppy may have become jaded now but I agree with him that a lot of people turning on this guy already is ridiculous. 

Z, D didn't become top 6 players till like their 3rd FULL NHL season.

Everyone needs to calm down.  

Then Ovie started back-checking and the Caps win a cup. 

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35 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Ovechkin, Crosby, Patrick Kane, Sedins, Perry many more offensive juggernauts all below average on defense.

Andreas Athanasiou is not Alex Ovechkin.

38 minutes ago, kickazz said:

AA has had less than 2 full seasons in the NHL. Last season he missed those 20 games or so because of the contract issue so really this was the first full season. 71 games.

Doesn't invalidate what I'm saying. His game is deficient in key areas and he needs to grow his game if he wants to become a cornerstone guy.

The same is true of Mantha.

41 minutes ago, kickazz said:

He doesn't need to be a two-way player. That s*** is a myth.

Cool. Death to defense and well-rounded players. You've convinced me.

I'm not saying he needs to become A Two-Way Player. I'm saying he's a one-dimensional player at present and he needs to grow his game, for his sake and the team's sake.

43 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Everyone needs to calm down.  

I'm perfectly calm. I'm not saying anything Blashill hasn't told him and all the other young guns a hundred thousand times.

We all want AA to excel as a Red Wing. We need franchise cornerstone players. If AA grows his game, he could become something really special. I was disappointed with what I saw from him this past season, whether it was him singlehandedly killing power play cycles left and right, or failing to deke around a defenseman in a one-on-one situation, or being easily stripped of the puck in the corner, or blowing assignments in the d-zone. His career is still young and I would expect him to become a better player over the next few years. I want to see him become an unholy terror, a guy no one wants to play against. To become that player, he's going to have to work incredibly hard at his craft and not just count on his rush game to get the job done every night.

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9 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Then Ovie started back-checking and the Caps win a cup. 

-____---- yes the Caps won the entire season and playoffs because Alexander Ovechkin backchecked.

Perry, Kane cant backcheck and won cups

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15 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Andreas Athanasiou is not Alex Ovechkin.

Great counter. Completely misses my point. Your entire squad doesn't need to be two-way forwards. It's a myth. Bruins had one of the most defensively minded hockey teams and aside from winning the cup a few years ago kept miserably failing year in and year out while projected to be a top contender. 

We need our forwards to score. If AA wants to run a breakaway play with Larkin then by all means let him. If he wants to pull a Hull and wait for a pass then by all means let him. He has the speed and acceleration for breakaways. THAT IS HIS STRENGTH. 

Edited by kickazz

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22 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Doesn't invalidate what I'm saying. His game is deficient in key areas and he needs to grow his game if he wants to become a cornerstone guy.

 

I am speaking in general terms to those who have questioned his defensive game. He doesn't need to backcheck hard to become a corner stone guy and neither does Mantha as long as we have enough of other guys doing it. This past season speaks volumes about our offense. We need offense period. And honestly, he's not even that bad at backchecking. People are making him seem a lot worse than he is. He's used his speed to cause a ton of turnovers plenty of times in our D-zone.  

He can improve on his cycling and playmaking but so can Dylan Larkin. These guys are still young. I've got no issue with AA currently being a middle 6 winger or whatever it is. If he was 28 years old then it would be an issue. 

I think Dylan Larkin set the bar too high and people subconsciously use him as a comparable. 

Edited by kickazz

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