Report: Detroit to name Steve Yzerman as GM

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

I’ll have you know the mods and site owner are not running to their safe space or trying to silencing your opinion. They’re simply here to make sure this hockey forum stays on topic and the no-politics rule is followed.

It’s an agreement you adhered to when making the account (always read the fine print).

Where did I say that? I have no issues with the site administrators.

The ability to have differing viewpoints and discuss them without one side trying to silence the other because they don't like what they're hearing is exactly what is missing in too many places. 

We can disagree on things here and debate them. That's a good thing. I am very well aware of what the rules of the board are. Nobody's perfect and I think we can all say that we've broken a rule or 2 along the way (including you). It happens.

And there are times when things that happen in the hockey world spill over into the social and political world. It's life. I dont think there's anything wrong with discussions that involve those things when they are hockey related. We can't just close off the rest of the world and pretend like life exists only on a 200 x 85 sheet of ice. The hockey world is bigger than that. And so should be the discussions when appropriate.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Where did I say that? I have no issues with the site administrators.

The ability to have differing viewpoints and discuss them without one side trying to silence the other because they don't like what they're hearing is exactly what is missing in too many places. 

We can disagree on things here and debate them. That's a good thing. I am very well aware of what the rules of the board are. Nobody's perfect and I think we can all say that we've broken a rule or 2 along the way (including you). It happens.

And there are times when things that happen in the hockey world spill over into the social and political world. It's life. I dont think there's anything wrong with discussions that involve those things when they are hockey related. We can't just close off the rest of the world and pretend like life exists only on a 200 x 85 sheet of ice. The hockey world is bigger than that. And so should be the discussions when appropriate.

are hot dogs sandwiches

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

are hot dogs sandwiches

Don’t get me started. 

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Where did I say that? I have no issues with the site administrators.

The ability to have differing viewpoints and discuss them without one side trying to silence the other because they don't like what they're hearing is exactly what is missing in too many places. 

We can disagree on things here and debate them. That's a good thing. I am very well aware of what the rules of the board are. Nobody's perfect and I think we can all say that we've broken a rule or 2 along the way (including you). It happens.

And there are times when things that happen in the hockey world spill over into the social and political world. It's life. I dont think there's anything wrong with discussions that involve those things when they are hockey related. We can't just close off the rest of the world and pretend like life exists only on a 200 x 85 sheet of ice. The hockey world is bigger than that. And so should be the discussions when appropriate.

I don’t think anyone has issues with “hockey politics” but United States politics started getting way too personal last year. Some of us were joking around but some people took it personally.

I remember I had to message F. Michael in Pm cause he thought I was being serious with my remarks. We’re good now and he’s a good dude and is a family man, but things like that get out of hand and exactly why we should all steer clear. 

I’m happy to go to a political forum with some of you guys and talk/vent actual politics, gov, policies etc. 

It’s fun and not serious to stir the pot when it comes to players like AA vs Larkin etc. (although my god some people even take that s*** personally) But consistently bringing up US politics and personal beliefs to stir the pot and piss off Canadians, or Left Wing or Right Wing etc Americans clearly gets personal. We all (including myself) took it way too far the past and it doesn’t really accomplish anything good around here. All it does it divide  fans of the same team. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by kickazz

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

are hot dogs sandwiches

Dont go there. I kid.

Its not really a debate. Hot dogs are definitely not sandwiches. And anyone who says otherwise is stupid.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[mackel 681]

29 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Dont go there. I kid.

Its not really a debate. Hot dogs are definitely not sandwiches. And anyone who says otherwise is stupid.

Mods do something about this ^^^^   LOL

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

On 4/26/2019 at 5:47 AM, krsmith17 said:

I agree that we need to give Yzerman some time. He's not going to turn this team around over night. However, I disagree that it's such a mess as you say...

I discussed this a bit in another thread, but here goes again... NTC/NMC don't really effect team's as much as some people believe they do. It rarely prevents players from being traded, it just gives the player a say in where they get traded.

We do not have 9 NTC/NMC. We currently have 7. Kronwall's and Vanek's are done. They are UFA's this offseason, and neither are likely to be re-signed. Even if Kronwall gets another one year contract (I hope he doesn't), and even if he's given a NTC (I don't think he would), it wouldn't effect us at all long-term.

Another 2 come off the books after next season, in Ericsson and Daley. You can also remove Abdelkader and Helm from that list, because both of their NTC's become void after next season if the Red Wings don't make the playoffs (we won't), and / or if they are not in the top 9 forwards in ice time (they won't be).

So now, all of a sudden, we only have 3 NTC/NMC going into the 2020 season. What a coincidence, that's the season we should be starting to turn the corner to be competitive...

Green's NTC becomes a M-NTC leading up the trade deadline in his final season (February 2020), in which he would have to submit a 10 team no-trade list. Easily tradable...

DeKeyser's NTC becomes a M-NTC leading up the trade deadline in his second to final season (January 2021), in which he would have to submit a 10 team no-trade list. Easily tradable...

Nielsen has a M-NTC now until the end of his contract (2022) in which he would have to submit a 10 team no-trade list. Easily tradeable.

Long story short, we're not in nearly as bad shape as some people think we are. I actually think we're in pretty good shape going forward.

I honestly see this as a complete dumpster fire as to where we're at today but am confident that we can right the ship.

I really hope that we don't hand out so many NTCs/NMCs in the future. I firmly believe that this is part of the reason as to why we haven't been a competitive team in many years (along with bad decisions at trade deadlines when we were a fringe playoff team).

What I'd like to see moving forward is a focus on signing young guys that have high ceilings for low space or veteran guys that you can sign cheaply (think like the Oakland A's and their moneyball approach). 

I'm willing to be wrong here but why the f*** did we go out and sign guys like Daley, Green, Vanek, and Nielsen? My intuition says that Holland thought these guys made our team better and put us in a position to make the playoffs but I think all of those signings were terrible and a few years ago should've of taken a different approach.

I look at Tampa Bay and see what they've done there. All of their core is super young. Yes, they're going to have issues trying to retain a lot of those guys but Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov, Palat, Johnson, Miller, Gourde, Point, Vasilevsky, etc. are all very young and those are the types of guys we should be trying to fill our roster with.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

On 4/26/2019 at 7:47 AM, krsmith17 said:

I agree that we need to give Yzerman some time. He's not going to turn this team around over night. However, I disagree that it's such a mess as you say...

I discussed this a bit in another thread, but here goes again... NTC/NMC don't really effect team's as much as some people believe they do. It rarely prevents players from being traded, it just gives the player a say in where they get traded.

We do not have 9 NTC/NMC. We currently have 7. Kronwall's and Vanek's are done. They are UFA's this offseason, and neither are likely to be re-signed. Even if Kronwall gets another one year contract (I hope he doesn't), and even if he's given a NTC (I don't think he would), it wouldn't effect us at all long-term.

Another 2 come off the books after next season, in Ericsson and Daley. You can also remove Abdelkader and Helm from that list, because both of their NTC's become void after next season if the Red Wings don't make the playoffs (we won't), and / or if they are not in the top 9 forwards in ice time (they won't be).

So now, all of a sudden, we only have 3 NTC/NMC going into the 2020 season. What a coincidence, that's the season we should be starting to turn the corner to be competitive...

Green's NTC becomes a M-NTC leading up the trade deadline in his final season (February 2020), in which he would have to submit a 10 team no-trade list. Easily tradable...

DeKeyser's NTC becomes a M-NTC leading up the trade deadline in his second to final season (January 2021), in which he would have to submit a 10 team no-trade list. Easily tradable...

Nielsen has a M-NTC now until the end of his contract (2022) in which he would have to submit a 10 team no-trade list. Easily tradeable.

Long story short, we're not in nearly as bad shape as some people think we are. I actually think we're in pretty good shape going forward.

According to Helms NTC, starting in 2018-19 season, it can be voided between June 15, 2019 and trade deadlinbe 2020, because the Wings already failed to qualify for playoffs. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Never_Retire_Steve said:

I honestly see this as a complete dumpster fire as to where we're at today but am confident that we can right the ship.

I really hope that we don't hand out so many NTCs/NMCs in the future. I firmly believe that this is part of the reason as to why we haven't been a competitive team in many years (along with bad decisions at trade deadlines when we were a fringe playoff team).

What I'd like to see moving forward is a focus on signing young guys that have high ceilings for low space or veteran guys that you can sign cheaply (think like the Oakland A's and their moneyball approach). 

I'm willing to be wrong here but why the f*** did we go out and sign guys like Daley, Green, Vanek, and Nielsen? My intuition says that Holland thought these guys made our team better and put us in a position to make the playoffs but I think all of those signings were terrible and a few years ago should've of taken a different approach.

I look at Tampa Bay and see what they've done there. All of their core is super young. Yes, they're going to have issues trying to retain a lot of those guys but Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov, Palat, Johnson, Miller, Gourde, Point, Vasilevsky, etc. are all very young and those are the types of guys we should be trying to fill our roster with.

I'm confused. In another thread you're advocating trading for Karlsson, but in this one, you're saying we should only focus on signing young players with high ceilings or veteran players on the cheap. Karlsson is neither of those things.

For the record, I agree with your philosophy in this thread, for the most part... However, I don't think we're a complete dumpster fire as you put it. I think we're a rebuilding team, with a lot of very promising young players on the team / in the system, with more on the way in the next two drafts.

You replied to my previous message, but you clearly didn't read it, or understand it. These NTC/NMC really don't effect a team that much. Certainly not enough to blame that on the team's demise. This team is bad now, because it's the natural cycle of sports. Every team inevitably has to be bad before they can be good again. We miraculously avoided one rebuild because we got extremely lucky in the draft. The chance of that happening again was slim to none.

I was impartial on the Nielsen signing. Didn't like it at the time, but didn't hate it either. I hated the Daley and Vanek signings. Green was a good signing. But yeah, for the most part, I agree that we should stay away from these types of signings, which is why I've been saying that we should stay far away from free agency this offseason.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm confused. In another thread you're advocating trading for Karlsson, but in this one, you're saying we should only focus on signing young players with high ceilings or veteran players on the cheap. Karlsson is neither of those things.

For the record, I agree with your philosophy in this thread, for the most part... However, I don't think we're a complete dumpster fire as you put it. I think we're a rebuilding team, with a lot of very promising young players on the team / in the system, with more on the way in the next two drafts.

You replied to my previous message, but you clearly didn't read it, or understand it. These NTC/NMC really don't effect a team that much. Certainly not enough to blame that on the team's demise. This team is bad now, because it's the natural cycle of sports. Every team inevitably has to be bad before they can be good again. We miraculously avoided one rebuild because we got extremely lucky in the draft. The chance of that happening again was slim to none.

I was impartial on the Nielsen signing. Didn't like it at the time, but didn't hate it either. I hated the Daley and Vanek signings. Green was a good signing. But yeah, for the most part, I agree that we should stay away from these types of signings, which is why I've been saying that we should stay far away from free agency this offseason.

How do you feel about Panarin?

[krsmith17 7,191]

54 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

How do you feel about Panarin?

I'd be slightly more okay with a Panarin signing, depending on the cost... $10+M for 7 years, I'd pass. Not because I don't think he's worth that contract, but because I don't think he'd be worth it to this team. We're not a Panarin away from being a Cup contender. Again, stay the course. No quick fixes.

[kickazz 5,459]

56 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd be slightly more okay with a Panarin signing, depending on the cost... $10+M for 7 years, I'd pass. Not because I don't think he's worth that contract, but because I don't think he'd be worth it to this team. We're not a Panarin away from being a Cup contender. Again, stay the course. No quick fixes.

I’d do Panarin 10 million 7 years.

Karlsson 12 million 7 years (with a deal that Zetterberg, Franzen, Ericsson, Kronwall all stay in town to keep him company)

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Panarin

Mantha - AA - Zadina

Hirose - Nielsen - Svech

Rasmussen - Glendigk - Abdel

 

Karlsson - Hronek

DK - Cholowski

Hicketts - Byram / Ericsson 

 

Howard

 

Playoffs next 3 years, Cup in 2022 when Byram becomes a top 5 D man  next to Karlsson on top line and Zadina becomes a top 10 winger and explodes into the NHL.

Edited April 28, 2019 by kickazz

[DaWingsin071 4]

Change Ericsson to Bowey.

Karlsson - Hronek

DK - Cholowski

Bowey - Byram 

[kickazz 5,459]

29 minutes ago, DaWingsin071 said:

Change Ericsson to Bowey.

Karlsson - Hronek

DK - Cholowski

Bowey - Byram 

Ericsson has to be in the lineup for Karlsson’s sake

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

5 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

How do you feel about Panarin?

Their soups are good.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

10 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm confused. In another thread you're advocating trading for Karlsson, but in this one, you're saying we should only focus on signing young players with high ceilings or veteran players on the cheap. Karlsson is neither of those things.

For the record, I agree with your philosophy in this thread, for the most part... However, I don't think we're a complete dumpster fire as you put it. I think we're a rebuilding team, with a lot of very promising young players on the team / in the system, with more on the way in the next two drafts.

You replied to my previous message, but you clearly didn't read it, or understand it. These NTC/NMC really don't effect a team that much. Certainly not enough to blame that on the team's demise. This team is bad now, because it's the natural cycle of sports. Every team inevitably has to be bad before they can be good again. We miraculously avoided one rebuild because we got extremely lucky in the draft. The chance of that happening again was slim to none.

I was impartial on the Nielsen signing. Didn't like it at the time, but didn't hate it either. I hated the Daley and Vanek signings. Green was a good signing. But yeah, for the most part, I agree that we should stay away from these types of signings, which is why I've been saying that we should stay far away from free agency this offseason.

NTC clauses usually come with exceptions anyway. Theyre usually performance based or only partial. If a player can list teams he WONT go to, its usually the bad teams who need to rebuild that arent intetested in acquiring him in the first place. The good teams who are looking to add players usually arent the ones that the player would block. The whole argument is WAY overblown. People make way too big of a deal about them.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, kickazz said:

I’d do Panarin 10 million 7 years.

Karlsson 12 million 7 years (with a deal that Zetterberg, Franzen, Ericsson, Kronwall all stay in town to keep him company)

Playoffs next 3 years, Cup in 2022 when Byram becomes a top 5 D man  next to Karlsson on top line and Zadina becomes a top 10 winger and explodes into the NHL.

You now have approximately $17M in cap space going into the 2020-21 season, and need to fill 5 forwards (including restricted free agents Mantha, Athanasiou and Bertuzzi), 3 defensemen and a goaltender.

I want nothing to do with signing 2 players beyond their prime years to $22M...

[kickazz 5,459]

25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You now have approximately $17M in cap space going into the 2020-21 season, and need to fill 5 forwards (including restricted free agents Mantha, Athanasiou and Bertuzzi), 3 defensemen and a goaltender.

I want nothing to do with signing 2 players beyond their prime years to $22M...

Panarin and Karlsson are in their primes

 

53 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Their soups are good.

Dip their bread in, then bust.

[Dabura 12,207]

2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Panarin and Karlsson are in their primes

Forwards tend to peak before age 28. Panarin will be 28 in October.

Karlsson's body is breaking down. The other day some insider half-joked on Twitter that when the Sharks' run is over, Karlsson's going to check himself into a hospital. He probably has three elite years left, at most.

[kickazz 5,459]

9 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Forwards tend to peak before age 28. Panarin will be 28 in October.

Karlsson's body is breaking down. The other day some insider half-joked on Twitter that when the Sharks' run is over, Karlsson's going to check himself into a hospital. He probably has three elite years left, at most.

Panarin is Russian, not murican. He’ll last till 33 or 34 too shape.

If it’s Karlsson’s groin that’s the issue, then I’m not too worried about it. They don’t end careers for defenders. 

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, kickazz said:

If it’s Karlsson’s groin that’s the issue, then I’m not too worried about it. They don’t end careers for defenders. 

The groin thing is the latest in a long line of injuries. At this point, his lower body is being held together with duct tape and prayer.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

The groin thing is the latest in a long line of injuries. At this point, his lower body is being held together with duct tape and prayer.

As long as he has his walnuts he may be ok

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

The groin thing is the latest in a long line of injuries. At this point, his lower body is being held together with duct tape and prayer.

Bon Jovi has been " living on a prayer" for like 30 years. He's held up pretty well.

[Dabura 12,207]

46 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Bon Jovi has been " living on a prayer" for like 30 years. He's held up pretty well.

Bon Jovi is lazy and he sucks.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

15 hours ago, Never_Retire_Steve said:

I honestly see this as a complete dumpster fire as to where we're at today but am confident that we can right the ship.

I really hope that we don't hand out so many NTCs/NMCs in the future. I firmly believe that this is part of the reason as to why we haven't been a competitive team in many years (along with bad decisions at trade deadlines when we were a fringe playoff team.

I'm willing to be wrong here but why the f*** did we go out and sign guys like Daley, Green, Vanek, and Nielsen? My intuition says that Holland thought these guys made our team better and put us in a position to make the playoffs but I think all of those signings were terrible and a few years ago should've of taken a different approach.

Holland made those moves to maintain the playoffs as long as possible. It was his job. Its what ownership and higher ups wanted him to do. If he hadnt done it, they would have given the job to someone else to do it. It wouldnt have been any different if Yzerman had been GM. He may not have made the same moves per se, but I can guarantee that the mandate would have been the same: Keep the streak alive as long as possible. And Stevie would have made moves to keep it going just like Holland did.

I truly believe that if Holland had stepped aside in 2010 and Yzerman made GM, he would have made similar moves and the team would be in the same place now. And fans would have been claiming that Yzerman wasnt fit to do the job and Ilitch should have kept Holland at the helm instead.

Daley and Green were signed to fill out the D and provide veteran leadership. Not enough D talent in the organization at the time.

Nielsen was signed because we needed a 2C.

Vanek was brought in as a depth F, a RH shot, and for the PP.

All of them were justifiable at rhe time considering the circumstances.