2020 Draft Thread

[LeftWinger 4,934]

since the PA agreed to the 24 team playoff, then it should be a 7 team lottery and that is it. I don't care if team 7 wins the lottery and we fall to 4 if that's how they want to do it, although I do think the format should still remain that gives Detroit and Ottawa no lower than 2 and 4.  People like to complain about Detroit "tanking" but look at teams 6 and 7...Buffalo? New Jersey? There is no more than can be said about those two teams.  But even if they went with the same rules for the 7 teams, so be it, just do NOT include any of the 8 teams that would've NOT been in the playoffs in a normal season.  Are you gonna reward Montreal with the #1 pick overall if they make it past the first round? What if they do eliminate a top seed in the 1st, does that seed now get a lottery chance because they were eliminated in the 1st? Do you hold the draft now with the same 15 teams, Columbus wins they lottery, then miraculously goes on a run in the playoffs and wins a Cup or damn close? How fair is that for the 7 teams that aren't getting a playoff chance? If that's the case, then lets hold the draft with normal rules, normal odds, 15 teams, then after that have a 31 team playoff, best of 3 1st round? Can't have your goose, cook it and eat it too. It's either playoffs or lottery. You CANNOT win a shot at The Cup AND get rewarded with Lafreniere or even a top 7 pick unless you've traded for it. Isn't it good enough that Montreal gets a shot in the playoffs and STILL could get a #8 overall? That will be a pretty damn good player for your efforts AND the playoffs!

[13dangledangle 957]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

 But even if they went with the same rules for the 7 teams, so be it, just do NOT include any of the 8 teams that would've NOT been in the playoffs in a normal season.

I agree Lefty.  If they for some reason want a 24 team playoff format then those teams that sneak should consider that their lucky draw.  

In the end I still see the Wings being on the shortest end of the stick for some reason.  I hope Im wrong

[krsmith17 7,191]

32 minutes ago, 13dangledangle said:

I agree Lefty.  If they for some reason want a 24 team playoff format then those teams that sneak should consider that their lucky draw.  

In the end I still see the Wings being on the shortest end of the stick for some reason.  I hope Im wrong

The thing is, if you're one of the bottom tier teams (17-24), would you rather extremely low odds at a Stanley Cup? or low odds in the draft lottery? Chicago for example, according to MoneyPuck, would have a 0.2% chance at winning the Cup. If they're included in the draft lottery, they would have a 16% chance at a top three pick, and a 5% chance at the number one pick. I'm not sure what Bowman is pushing for, but he probably should be pushing for his team to be included in the draft lottery over the playoffs. If it is one or the other that is, which in my opinion, it should be...

As Wings fans, we're obviously all hoping for increased odds, in our favor, and I think there's a good chance there will be. Either way, the whole lottery system is a joke, and should be changed. In my opinion, teams shouldn't be able to move up or down more than 3 spots, regardless where they sit in the standings. No more Carolina's / Chicago's jumping up 9 spots to draft Svechnikov / Dach... 

[Dabura 12,206]

So the lotto format was announced and I hate it and the NHL is dumb. So much for my galaxy brain "They might try to help the Wings out, because the Wings being bad helps absolutely no one" take.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

9 minutes ago, Dabura said:

So the lotto format was announced and I hate it and the NHL is dumb. So much for my galaxy brain "They might try to help the Wings out, because the Wings being bad helps absolutely no one" take.

They basically told all the bottom teams to go f*** themselves. 

[Dabura 12,206]

Just now, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

They basically told all the bottom teams to go f*** themselves. 

Gotta love that Parity™.

Whatever. F*** tha police. I'm over it. As I've said, the front end of this draft class is crazy deep, so even at 4th overall we'd be getting a total stud who has all the makings of a cornerstone player.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Gotta love that Parity™.

Whatever. F*** tha police. I'm over it. As I've said, the front end of this draft class is crazy deep, so even at 4th overall we'd be getting a total stud who has all the makings of a cornerstone player.

Depending on who picks above us, we might have a couple really good ones to choose from. Some dumb*** will take Askarov or Drysdale in the top 3.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[mackel 674]

7 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Depending on who picks above us, we might have a couple really good ones to choose from. Some dumb*** will take Askarov or Drysdale in the top 3.

I just have visions of the Leafs or Oilers picking ahead of us...  if that happens I don't think it could in anyway be justified by the "league". 

Imagine if the Leafs get Lafreniere cost controlled for 3 years... all of a sudden they can trade Marner for a boatload of futures get out from under their self inflicted cap problems and be set for a decade or more... oh and they're in our division. I'll be cheering for Montreal and Toronto this play in... it's in our interest for sure!

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Depending on who picks above us, we might have a couple really good ones to choose from. Some dumb*** will take Askarov or Drysdale in the top 3.

If Ottawa have two of the top three picks, I think they could take Drysdale, along with their center / winger. Otherwise, I don't see any other team taking Drysdale top 3. I also don't see any team taking Askarov top 10, let alone top 3... 

I'm still hopeful that we'll land a top two pick, but we should be getting a stud anywhere in the top four.

2 minutes ago, mackel said:

I just have visions of the Leafs or Oilers picking ahead of us...  if that happens I don't think it could in anyway be justified by the "league". 

Imagine if the Leafs get Lafreniere cost controlled for 3 years... all of a sudden they can trade Marner for a boatload of futures get out from under their self inflicted cap problems and be set for a decade or more... oh and they're in our division. I'll be cheering for Montreal and Toronto this play in... it's in our interest for sure!

I wouldn't even mind the Oilers (my 2nd favorite team), but the Leafs, Hawks or Pens would be disgusting... Imagine a top line of Lafreniere, McDavid and whoever... That would also be disgusting...

[TLGTrico 616]

If I could pick 3 lottery winners, they'd be Detroit, Minnesota and Arizona.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

16 hours ago, TLGTrico said:

If I could pick 3 lottery winners, they'd be Detroit, Minnesota and Arizona.

I'd give one to Ottawa just because I feel so bad for their fanbase for having to deal with that dumpster fire. 

[Dabura 12,206]

On 5/28/2020 at 7:56 PM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Depending on who picks above us, we might have a couple really good ones to choose from. Some dumb*** will take Askarov or Drysdale in the top 3.

I'll be pretty surprised if Askarov goes in the top three. Less surprised if Drysdale does, as I think he looks like a future 1D. I'd be ok with Yzerman taking Drysdale or Rossi as high as 2nd overall, so I really mean it when I say we'd be getting a stud with all the makings of a cornerstone player at 4th overall.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

17 hours ago, TLGTrico said:

If I could pick 3 lottery winners, they'd be Detroit, Minnesota and Arizona.

Maybe the league should gift the first overall to Minnesota. We wouldn't want them to riot or anything.

28 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'll be pretty surprised if Askarov goes in the top three. Less surprised if Drysdale does, as I think he looks like a future 1D. I'd be ok with Yzerman taking Drysdale or Rossi as high as 2nd overall, so I really mean it when I say we'd be getting a stud with all the makings of a cornerstone player at 4th overall.

Im less convinced about Drysdale than I was about Bowen or even Q. Hughes.

[Dabura 12,206]

3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Maybe the league should gift the first overall to Minnesota. We wouldn't want them to riot or anything.

I'd been thinking all season long that Minny's gonna get one of the first three picks. Still think that. Just a gut feeling.

4 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Im less convinced about Drysdale than I was about Bowen or even Q. Hughes.

Fair enough. Personally, I dunno what's not to like about him. He filled in for Byram at the WJC and performed admirably, becoming the youngest defenseman to represent Canada since Jay Bouwmeester. He has the elite skating and elite offensive instincts of guys like Hughes and Makar but he's also surprisingly good on the defensive side of the puck. Like Seider, he projects as a guy who eats minutes across all situations, a guy you can hard match against top talent. A guy you can really lean on. His bread and butter will likely be the power play, but I definitely don't see him as a one-dimensional power play specialist, if that's the concern. A top three of Drysdale, Seider, Hronek could be delicious.

On the other hand, if we take Byfield/Stutzle/Rossi then we likely will have addressed our center depth problem, possibly for the next ten years.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

21 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'd been thinking all season long that Minny's gonna get one of the first three picks. Still think that. Just a gut feeling.

Fair enough. Personally, I dunno what's not to like about him. He filled in for Byram at the WJC and performed admirably, becoming the youngest defenseman to represent Canada since Jay Bouwmeester. He has the elite skating and elite offensive instincts of guys like Hughes and Makar but he's also surprisingly good on the defensive side of the puck. Like Seider, he projects as a guy who eats minutes across all situations, a guy you can hard match against top talent. A guy you can really lean on. His bread and butter will likely be the power play, but I definitely don't see him as a one-dimensional power play specialist, if that's the concern. A top three of Drysdale, Seider, Hronek could be delicious.

On the other hand, if we take Byfield/Stutzle/Rossi then we likely will have addressed our center depth problem, possibly for the next ten years.

I literally have nothing specific about him to point to. It's just one of those things where its what my gut is telling me. However, my gut can be wrong, so I won't stubbornly argue the point.

[Dabura 12,206]

9 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I literally have nothing specific about him to point to. It's just one of those things where its what my gut is telling me. However, my gut can be wrong, so I won't stubbornly argue the point.

COWARD!

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I'd been thinking all season long that Minny's gonna get one of the first three picks. Still think that. Just a gut feeling.

Fair enough. Personally, I dunno what's not to like about him. He filled in for Byram at the WJC and performed admirably, becoming the youngest defenseman to represent Canada since Jay Bouwmeester. He has the elite skating and elite offensive instincts of guys like Hughes and Makar but he's also surprisingly good on the defensive side of the puck. Like Seider, he projects as a guy who eats minutes across all situations, a guy you can hard match against top talent. A guy you can really lean on. His bread and butter will likely be the power play, but I definitely don't see him as a one-dimensional power play specialist, if that's the concern. A top three of Drysdale, Seider, Hronek could be delicious.

On the other hand, if we take Byfield/Stutzle/Rossi then we likely will have addressed our center depth problem, possibly for the next ten years.

Thanks for the short analysis as I still have barely looked into Drysdale. When you mention Hughes and Makar my interest is piqued.

Your last line is the way I think though, and if we don't get Laff I'd really like any one of those guys. Byfield obviously, Stutzle would be cool for the german factor and because I really like drafting guys who've already played in men's leagues. Rossi seems risky due to his skating/size, but he just seems so stinking talented and also appears to have some exceptional balance, which may make his size less of a factor. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Wheelchairsuperhero

[Akakabuto 1,744]

8 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Rossi seems risky due to his skating/size, but he just seems so stinking talented and also appears to have some exceptional balance, which may make his size less of a factor. 

Read somewhere that goaltending this year in the OHL has been abysmal. When asked about the goalie trademarket in juniors this year one scout said something like: "Can you even find two goalies in the OHL worth trading for?".

Something to think about when it comes to Byfield, Rossi, Perfetti etc. Their numbers might be inflated.

Sorry for not being able to provide source.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

10 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Read somewhere that goaltending this year in the OHL has been abysmal. When asked about the goalie trademarket in juniors this year one scout said something like: "Can you even find two goalies in the OHL worth trading for?".

Something to think about when it comes to Byfield, Rossi, Perfetti etc. Their numbers might be inflated.

Sorry for not being able to provide source.

Worth thinking about, but I guess my first though after hearing that is that everyone's stats will be inflated. So if we're comparing them to past draft years/players of other leagues sure, but if we're just going to look at them relative to one another and assume the quality of the OHL isn't drastically different this year then It's not really a huge factor. 

Personally I'm not knowledgeable enough on the skill differences between the various leagues, outside of the typical narrative you hear about the QMJHL being  a higher scoring league. That's why I find prospects like Stutzle so enticing, as I think there's no doubt a men's professional league contains stiffer competition. 

[Akakabuto 1,744]

6 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Worth thinking about, but I guess my first though after hearing that is that everyone's stats will be inflated. So if we're comparing them to past draft years/players of other leagues sure, but if we're just going to look at them relative to one another and assume the quality of the OHL isn't drastically different this year then It's not really a huge factor. 

Personally I'm not knowledgeable enough on the skill differences between the various leagues, outside of the typical narrative you hear about the QMJHL being  a higher scoring league. That's why I find prospects like Stutzle so enticing, as I think there's no doubt a men's professional league contains stiffer competition. 

I realized I shouldnt have put Byfield in that group as his stats doesnt stand out in that way.

But looking at both Rossi and Prefetti they have a huge number of assists this year. Numbers that in the last couple of years only have been matched by players like Morgan Frost and Jordan Kyrou in their draft+1 or +2 seasons.

Rossi especially seems to benefit from his teammates also scoring big numbers too as the 67's had 4 players in the scoring top ten this season.

[Dabura 12,206]

On 5/30/2020 at 9:01 PM, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Thanks for the short analysis as I still have barely looked into Drysdale. When you mention Hughes and Makar my interest is piqued.

Honestly, I feel kinda dirty bringing up Hughes and Makar. Those two were phenomenal this season, so of course everyone's gonna be looking for "the next one"...and so of course when you look at Drysdale -- a smallish offense-driver who can skate you into the ground -- there's a temptation to say, "Wow! It's Hughes/Makar 2.0! Imagine our luck!" And I think there's also a temptation to overcorrect in the opposite direction and scream, "HE'S NOT HUGHES/MAKAR 2.0! STOP BEING A POO BRAIN!" Because, I mean, it's not like we should now expect every draft to produce a Hughes/Makar-caliber defenseman.

Realistically, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle; I don't expect Drysdale to be quite as lethal and electrifying as Hughes and Makar, but I think his all-around game is better than Hughes' and Makar's, which arguably makes his ceiling a higher than theirs. He's an all-situations guy.

On 5/30/2020 at 9:01 PM, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Your last line is the way I think though, and if we don't get Laff I'd really like any one of those guys. Byfield obviously, Stutzle would be cool for the german factor and because I really like drafting guys who've already played in men's leagues. Rossi seems risky due to his skating/size, but he just seems so stinking talented and also appears to have some exceptional balance, which may make his size less of a factor. 

My biggest source of HYPE! regarding this draft is the fact that we're likely going to be able to say, "OK, we've taken care of [insert position]. One down, three to go." I'm a sucker for center depth, so I do kinda hope it's a centerman (assuming we're not picking 1st). I'd hope the centerman ends up being a full-time centerman, but the thought of Byfield/Stutzle/Rossi splitting time between center and (Larkin's) wing gives me a boner, so it's all good. I do think they all look like full-time centermen tho. Even Rossi.

Some people say Rossi's skating is questionable, but I don't really see it. A lot of people are on record saying his skating is a strength. I agree with these people. Overall, Rossi's a remarkably well-rounded player. The Brayden Point comparisons are very appropriate. Because he's relatively old and plays a mature two-way game, I think he's arguably the most NHL-ready guy in this draft class not named Lafreniere.

[Dabura 12,206]

On 5/31/2020 at 5:52 AM, Akakabuto said:

Read somewhere that goaltending this year in the OHL has been abysmal. When asked about the goalie trademarket in juniors this year one scout said something like: "Can you even find two goalies in the OHL worth trading for?".

Something to think about when it comes to Byfield, Rossi, Perfetti etc. Their numbers might be inflated.

Sorry for not being able to provide source.

On 5/31/2020 at 4:40 PM, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Worth thinking about, but I guess my first though after hearing that is that everyone's stats will be inflated. So if we're comparing them to past draft years/players of other leagues sure, but if we're just going to look at them relative to one another and assume the quality of the OHL isn't drastically different this year then It's not really a huge factor. 

Personally I'm not knowledgeable enough on the skill differences between the various leagues, outside of the typical narrative you hear about the QMJHL being  a higher scoring league. That's why I find prospects like Stutzle so enticing, as I think there's no doubt a men's professional league contains stiffer competition. 

On 5/31/2020 at 4:53 PM, Akakabuto said:

I realized I shouldnt have put Byfield in that group as his stats doesnt stand out in that way.

But looking at both Rossi and Prefetti they have a huge number of assists this year. Numbers that in the last couple of years only have been matched by players like Morgan Frost and Jordan Kyrou in their draft+1 or +2 seasons.

Rossi especially seems to benefit from his teammates also scoring big numbers too as the 67's had 4 players in the scoring top ten this season.

I suppose it's worth keeping in mind, like Wcs said. But I think what it comes down to -- and this is always a thing with any amateur or pro league -- is what kind of numbers the league's top scorers put up. So, like, Rossi's 120 points is probably inflated; he's got a clear age advantage (late September birthday) and that's going to help him even if poor OHL goaltending isn't a thing. So let's subtract, say, 30 points. Even with 90 points, he'd still be in pretty good company:

https://www.quanthockey.com/ohl/en/seasons/2019-20-ohl-players-stats.html

TBH, I'm not interested in Perfetti. I'm very high on Rossi tho. He's an Yzerman type, i.e. a smallish, high-skill, high-IQ, hard-working, well-rounded playmaking centerman who plays in the guts of the game across all three zones. He's always impacting the game, making things happen.

This is a good profile that goes over Rossi's numbers (and more) in detail:

https://www.silversevensens.com/2020/6/1/21276461/2020-nhl-draft-profile-marco-rossi-ottawa-senators-nhl-ohl

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

The Athletic - Wheeler's Final 2020 Draft Prospect Rankings

1. Lafreniere

2. Byfield

3. Rossi

4. Perfetti

5. Raymond

6. Holtz

7. Stuzle

8. Drysdale

9. Lundell

10. Gunler

Vs

The Athletic - Pronman's Final 2020 Draft Prospect Rankings

1. Lafreniere

2. Byfield

3. Stuzle

4. Raymond

5. Perfetti

6. Holtz

7. Drysdale

8. Askavov

9. Rossi

10. Zary

 

[Dabura 12,206]

On 6/3/2020 at 8:46 AM, The 91 of Ryans said:

The Athletic - Wheeler's Final 2020 Draft Prospect Rankings

1. Lafreniere

2. Byfield

3. Rossi

4. Perfetti

5. Raymond

6. Holtz

7. Stuzle

8. Drysdale

9. Lundell

10. Gunler

Vs

The Athletic - Pronman's Final 2020 Draft Prospect Rankings

1. Lafreniere

2. Byfield

3. Stuzle

4. Raymond

5. Perfetti

6. Holtz

7. Drysdale

8. Askavov

9. Rossi

10. Zary

Yep, sounds about right. Lafreniere and Byfield are the consensus 1 and 2, respectively. No clear consensus beyond that.

Like I said, I'm not interested in Perfetti. My reasoning is lazy: He's a smallish guy and I've heard his skating isn't great and I don't want a smallish guy whose skating isn't great. So he's pretty much guaranteed to become the best NHLer this draft produces, because f*** my life.

I'm torn on Holtz. On the one hand, he's a natural born goal-scorer and I can easily imagine him becoming the next Kucherov. On the other hand, I think his overall game is lacking. Maybe Raymond isn't quite the goal-scorer Holtz is, but Raymond's all-around game is way more dynamic, way more robust.

Stutzle at 7 on Wheeler's list is surprising to me...but I guess it also kind of isn't, as there are some things Stutzle needs to work on and/or may never be able to claim as strengths. Matt Larkin:

Quote

“His offensive hockey skills, his skating and ability to beat players 1-on-1 and create outnumbered situations, it’s a big asset,” said Adler Mannheim coach Pavel Gross. “Especially the quickness, how he can recognize the situation, how he is able to create new scoring chances for his teammates. That’s something, as a coach, you cannot teach.”

As a first-year pro, Stutzle posted a stat line characteristic of a playmaker: seven goals and 34 points in 41 games. But once he reaches his potential and gets used to playing against men, the goals should come. Forget the obvious and inaccurate comparison to Draisaitl, a hulking puck protector. Gross sees Stutzle, at a stringy 6-foot-1 and 185 pounds, as more of an Elias Pettersson type. The difference right now, Gross says, is Pettersson has one of the NHL’s deadliest releases, whereas Stutzle has to work on getting his shot off quicker. He has yet to consistently translate his speed into good outcomes. He also doesn’t always come out with the puck when he goes into the corner against a big, heavy defenseman.

“The thing I want to work on this summer is getting stronger on the ice to stay on my feet the whole time in battles,” Stutzle said. “That’s the thing I worked a lot on (this) season, playing against men.”

Gross and Tobias Abstreiter, Germany’s world junior coach, list defensive play as the No. 1 skill Stutzle must refine. Not that either views it as a long-term problem.

[shrug]

[LeftWinger 4,934]

Come on Lottery!  (just sayin)