Would you bring back Babcock?

[Akakabuto 1,751]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

witter linking is f***ed on this site now? f*** off Matt!! What kind of welfare s*** is this?

 

 

[kipwinger 8,524]

I think that all the "Babcock is the worst person" chatter completely distracts people from the fact that he's not a good coach. That should be the story. He was routinely given uber talented teams and he routinely failed to win championships with them. If he was "the best coach in the world" as he was talked about during the peak of his career wouldn't that have gone down a little differently? As it stands he has had EXACTLY as much success as Peter Laviolette (a guy nobody spends much time thinking/writing about) but with WAY more talented teams. 

Here's what is going to happen in Columbus. He's going to take a ton of really talented players, browbeat them to the point that they're afraid of own shadows (let alone afraid to make a mistake on the ice) and then they're going to go out on the ice and do...nothing. They're going to dump pucks, make conservative changes, never press in transition, and "trust the process" instead of making plays. That's what ALWAYS happens with his teams. But they sure will hustle. Atta boy Babs.

[bIueadams 776]

9 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I think that all the "Babcock is the worst person" chatter completely distracts people from the fact that he's not a good coach. That should be the story. He was routinely given uber talented teams and he routinely failed to win championships with them. If he was "the best coach in the world" as he was talked about during the peak of his career wouldn't that have gone down a little differently? As it stands he has had EXACTLY as much success as Peter Laviolette (a guy nobody spends much time thinking/writing about) but with WAY more talented teams. 

Here's what is going to happen in Columbus. He's going to take a ton of really talented players, browbeat them to the point that they're afraid of own shadows (let alone afraid to make a mistake on the ice) and then they're going to go out on the ice and do...nothing. They're going to dump pucks, make conservative changes, never press in transition, and "trust the process" instead of making plays. That's what ALWAYS happens with his teams. But they sure will hustle. Atta boy Babs.

The thing Babs players always say about him is "he's the most detailed/prepared coach" in hockey. I assume this to mean he does his homework on every little detail about his team, the other team, and goes into every game with distinct gameplan.

Other than that we know from his time here he likes low event hockey. Which kinda makes sense for his OCD personality. He wants to control the game as much as he can, chaos is bad.

In regards to the talents of his teams,

05/06 - he should have been good, but was ousted by SC finalist Oilers in the first. Also the weird year coming back from lockout.
06/07 - was good, ousted in the 3rd by Giggy having his famous lights out run.
07/08 - was good, win SC
08/09 - was good, SC finals
08/10 - at this point Lidstrom is 39, Raffi is 35, Draper/Maltby/Osgood/Bertuzzi/Holmstrom are all aging shells. Who are the replacements coming in? Franzen, Howard, Fil, Hudler, Abby, Ericsson, Meech, Lebda, Kindl? That's not good. We are aging out at this point, with poor talent coming back in. And everything slowly got worse every year from there on. It's not like this guy was handed the best roster every year. Maybe it felt like we were favs at the time, but looking back now its obvious that was hubris.

Then you have Tronna, and Tronna is Tronna. I don't think they're gonna win with Scotty on the bench.

Is he the best coach of all time? Certainly not. But I'd put him in the same category as Trotz, Ruff, etc. Good, not great, coaches that no one will remember in 20 years.

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

I think that all the "Babcock is the worst person" chatter completely distracts people from the fact that he's not a good coach. That should be the story. He was routinely given uber talented teams and he routinely failed to win championships with them. If he was "the best coach in the world" as he was talked about during the peak of his career wouldn't that have gone down a little differently? As it stands he has had EXACTLY as much success as Peter Laviolette (a guy nobody spends much time thinking/writing about) but with WAY more talented teams. 

Here's what is going to happen in Columbus. He's going to take a ton of really talented players, browbeat them to the point that they're afraid of own shadows (let alone afraid to make a mistake on the ice) and then they're going to go out on the ice and do...nothing. They're going to dump pucks, make conservative changes, never press in transition, and "trust the process" instead of making plays. That's what ALWAYS happens with his teams. But they sure will hustle. Atta boy Babs.

Never forget when his powerhouse Canadian roster was only able to beat Latvia 1-0 in the 2014 Olympics. 

 

23 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

06/07 - was good, ousted in the 3rd by Giggy having his famous lights out run.

Giggy's insane run was the 2003 playoffs. Anaheim was just actually a good team in 2007. 

[bIueadams 776]

2 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Never forget when his powerhouse Canadian roster was only able to beat Latvia 1-0 in the 2014 Olympics. 

Now you'd gone and done it and crossed the line insulting the proud country of Latvia. You wouldn't say that to the face of Skrastins or Daugavins.

4 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Giggy's insane run was the 2003 playoffs. Anaheim was just actually a good team in 2007. 

You're right. Oops. But yeah there roster was pretty insane that year.

Kunitz - McDonald - Selanne
Penner - Getzlaf - Perry
Marchant - Pahlsson - Moen

Neidermeyer - Pronger
Beauchemin

Giggy
Bryzgalov

Pronger and Perry on the same team. McDonald was always a super underrated center. That 3rd line could grind any line down.

[marcaractac 3,963]

3 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

Now you'd gone and done it and crossed the line insulting the proud country of Latvia. You wouldn't say that to the face of Skrastins or Daugavins.

You're right. Oops. But yeah there roster was pretty insane that year.

Kunitz - McDonald - Selanne
Penner - Getzlaf - Perry
Marchant - Pahlsson - Moen

Neidermeyer - Pronger
Beauchemin

Giggy
Bryzgalov

Pronger and Perry on the same team. McDonald was always a super underrated center. That 3rd line could grind any line down.

Not to mention that first pair D. Good lord...

[bIueadams 776]

7 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Not to mention that first pair D. Good lord...

The Wings best D pairing of all time is probably Lids - Raffi? No?

Niedermayer - Pronger makes Lids - Raffi look foolish I feel like.

[kipwinger 8,524]

29 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

The thing Babs players always say about him is "he's the most detailed/prepared coach" in hockey. I assume this to mean he does his homework on every little detail about his team, the other team, and goes into every game with distinct gameplan.

Other than that we know from his time here he likes low event hockey. Which kinda makes sense for his OCD personality. He wants to control the game as much as he can, chaos is bad.

In regards to the talents of his teams,

05/06 - he should have been good, but was ousted by SC finalist Oilers in the first. Also the weird year coming back from lockout.
06/07 - was good, ousted in the 3rd by Giggy having his famous lights out run.
07/08 - was good, win SC
08/09 - was good, SC finals
08/10 - at this point Lidstrom is 39, Raffi is 35, Draper/Maltby/Osgood/Bertuzzi/Holmstrom are all aging shells. Who are the replacements coming in? Franzen, Howard, Fil, Hudler, Abby, Ericsson, Meech, Lebda, Kindl? That's not good. We are aging out at this point, with poor talent coming back in. And everything slowly got worse every year from there on. It's not like this guy was handed the best roster every year. Maybe it felt like we were favs at the time, but looking back now its obvious that was hubris.

Then you have Tronna, and Tronna is Tronna. I don't think they're gonna win with Scotty on the bench.

Is he the best coach of all time? Certainly not. But I'd put him in the same category as Trotz, Ruff, etc. Good, not great, coaches that no one will remember in 20 years.

While I won't quibble with your conclusion (he's good but forgettable) I will quibble with a couple of things. First, he absolutely WAS handed the best roster year after year (for most of his career). His very first year as head coach of the Wings he was handed a roster with four 80+ point players. Most coaches never have that much talent in their careers. What did he do with that team? Lost in the first round. In 2009 he had three 30 goal scorers, one 40 goal scorer, and a top four of Lids, Rafalski, Kronner, and Stuart. He lost in the finals. Quenneville/Sutter/Sullivan/Cooper don't lose in the finals with that roster. For five years he had dominant rosters and didn't win Cups during the window. The guys I just mentioned all won multiple Cups with similarly talented rosters during their five year windows. He didn't.

Which brings me to the second point. You're glossing over just how good he had it in TO and how he failed to do anything at all with all his talent. Sure you can say "Tronna is Tronna" but it's not like he was taking that team on deep runs and then blowing it. He couldn't get THAT team out of the first round. That's beyond embarrassing and there's no good excuse why a good coach (if he really is one) should have under performed THAT badly with THAT roster.

[marcaractac 3,963]

7 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

The Wings best D pairing of all time is probably Lids - Raffi? No?

Niedermayer - Pronger makes Lids - Raffi look foolish I feel like.

Lids is def the best of the 4, but the Duck duo is easily 2 and 3. So as a pairing, yeah they got it in the bag. Having said that, 2008 Detroit had the better top 4 than the 2007 Ducks. 

The best d-pairing to ever take the Ice was Lids and Weber in that All-Star game years back though. They dominated. Sure it was just an All-Star game, but f*** they were good.  

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

While I won't quibble with your conclusion (he's good but forgettable) I will quibble with a couple of things. First, he absolutely WAS handed the best roster year after year (for most of his career). His very first year as head coach of the Wings he was handed a roster with four 80+ point players. Most coaches never have that much talent in their careers. What did he do with that team? Lost in the first round. In 2009 he had three 30 goal scorers, one 40 goal scorer, and a top four of Lids, Rafalski, Kronner, and Stuart. He lost in the finals. Quenneville/Sutter/Sullivan/Cooper don't lose in the finals with that roster. For five years he had dominant rosters and didn't win Cups during the window. The guys I just mentioned all won multiple Cups with similarly talented rosters during their five year windows. He didn't.

Which brings me to the second point. You're glossing over just how good he had it in TO and how he failed to do anything at all with all his talent. Sure you can say "Tronna is Tronna" but it's not like he was taking that team on deep runs and then blowing it. He couldn't get THAT team out of the first round. That's beyond embarrassing and there's no good excuse why a good coach (if he really is one) should have under performed THAT badly with THAT roster.

I don't disagree with Babs being mid at all, but I don't think he gets the blame for 2009. There were some brutal key injuries that run. Rafalski was basically a cripple in those finals. The Pens just had a little more in the tank at the end of that series. I'll never forget that goal where Staal blew right past Raf. That was the turning point of that series that the Wings just didn't have enough to recover from.

100% agree with the rest though. 

[bIueadams 776]

6 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

While I won't quibble with your conclusion (he's good but forgettable) I will quibble with a couple of things. First, he absolutely WAS handed the best roster year after year (for most of his career).

NAh - we was handed good rosters evey year - but you can easily argue any of the rosters that beat the Wings were just as good if not better. These kinda comments stink of classic Wings elitist hubris.

9 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

His very first year as head coach of the Wings he was handed a roster with four 80+ point players. Most coaches never have that much talent in their careers. What did he do with that team? Lost in the first round.

We also saw Carolina win the cup that year with a 100 pt Eric Staal, 76 pt Justin Williams, over PPG Cory Stillman, a 70 pt Brindamour, a PPG Erik Cole, and nearly a PPG Ray Whitney. It's easy to forget most of those players ever did anything. But sometimes you collect lightning in a bottle. The cup doesn't get handed to the best regular season team.

14 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

 In 2009 he had three 30 goal scorers, one 40 goal scorer, and a top four of Lids, Rafalski, Kronner, and Stuart. He lost in the finals. Quenneville/Sutter/Sullivan/Cooper don't lose in the finals with that roster. For five years he had dominant rosters and didn't win Cups during the window. The guys I just mentioned all won multiple Cups with similarly talented rosters during their five year windows. He didn't.

Yes he did - we literally won with the Wings in 2008.

That year we lost to Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Gonchar, Satan, Staal, Orpik, Goligoski, and Fleury. Argue this point with a Pens fan. They'll tell you they had the better roster in 2008 as well.

19 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Which brings me to the second point. You're glossing over just how good he had it in TO and how he failed to do anything at all with all his talent. Sure you can say "Tronna is Tronna" but it's not like he was taking that team on deep runs and then blowing it. He couldn't get THAT team out of the first round. That's beyond embarrassing and there's no good excuse why a good coach (if he really is one) should have under performed THAT badly with THAT roster.

And your point might actually be damning if Keefe did something with Tronna. But he hasn't. You have players like Gudas literally saying lol I would never sign there - just playing them in the playoffs is beyond my comfort zone. Tronna has systemic problems way beyond the coach.

 

[bIueadams 776]

Here's the annoying part about Wings fans, when it comes to Babs.

For years you were happy to have him and gloat about him being the best coach in the league (don't even pretend this wasn't the narrative)

Then the roster turns sour and many of you are happy make him the scapegoat. Go to Toronto - we never liked you anyway! (you did) - oh you got fired from Toronto? We secretly knew you were always bad and you are actually the reason we didn't win MORE cups... lol

The man took us to 2 SCF in 4 years in the cap era and you have the gall to say he sucks because we didn't win all 4 years lmao. Its like the most pathetic retro-history I've ever seen. And I hope yall never stop doing it so i cantinue to comment on it.

[bIueadams 776]

Fake news nothing burger

Jenner and Babs deny

Babs Derangement Syndrome continues. Chicklets is fake news.

 

[bIueadams 776]

Biz is also doubling down on his statements. Saying he's heard this from "tons of players" lol specifically he said he heard it from Mike Commodore, Matt Commodore, Mike Pommodoro, Michael Commodore, Mike Commodore in a wig, Mike Commodore with a mustache, and others.

 

[bIueadams 776]

I think the funniest outcome to all of this would be:

Babs really DID do this immediately upon getting his career back and he's already browbeaten his new team into obeying him and gas lighting Biz.

He has changed his ways... he's gone from abusive to super sayan abusive.

[bIueadams 776]

Johnny Hockey responds

Quote

"I was a little upset how it got kinda blown out of proportion there," Gaudreau told Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman and Jeff Marek during a recording of their 32 Thoughts podcast in Henderson, Nev.

"It sucks to see how it kinda got blown out in the wrong direction

Gaudreau, a 10-year veteran and leader on the team, said "not a single person" on the team approached him to express discomfort with Babcock's photo access requests. He believes if a teammate does take issue with Babcock's approach, they will feel at ease going to Gaudreau, Jenner or Zach Werenski.

"It was his way of kinda getting to know me, and I got to get to know him," Gaudreau said. "I wasn't uncomfortable at all. I was showing him pictures of my family. If I had (a) problem with it, I would've been like, 'I don't think I'm comfortable with that.' But I had no problem with it."

Gaudreau, 30, explained that Babcock initiated the exchange by saying, "I want to get to know you. Show me some pictures of your family, what you like to in the summer, things you did this summer. So, I pulled up pictures."

Gaudreau says he was happy to share photos of his 10-month-old daughter, Noa; his mother and father; his brother; his beloved and recently deceased grandmother; and his dog.

"I've never had a coach take a direction like that and get to know me on a personal level like that right off the bat — and it was the first time I ever met him. He showed me a few things about his family and kinda talked about his kids and his wife and the dogs that he's watching now ... We got to know each other that way. Then we got right into the hockey after," Gaudreau said.

"When someone asks to see your family, I love my family. A big reason why I chose Columbus is I wanted to be around them more.

"That's important to me. I think it's a great idea for somebody to get to know me is getting to know my family.

Biznasty has become UNHINGED

[bIueadams 776]

"Hey Big Bully Babs I bet you wanna see all the dick pics I collect on my phone. Haha nice try pervert."

[Axl Foley 224]

9 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Piggy's insane run was the 2003 playoffs. Anaheim was just actually a good team in 2007. 

Yep. 03 was Gigueres Conn Smythe. 07 Ducks team was stacked up front and on D. I was not upset to get ousted in the CF, they were just a much better team.

[bIueadams 776]

8 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

Yep. 03 was Gigueres Conn Smythe. 07 Ducks team was stacked up front and on D. I was not upset to get ousted in the CF, they were just a much better team.

yet us not winning was babcocks fault according to @kipwinger

[Axl Foley 224]

I think Commodore is behind this Babcock nonsense. I think he would make up a story about leaving a Subway and getting beat up by Babcock in a MAGA hat. He hates him that much.

[bIueadams 776]

30 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

I think Commodore is behind this Babcock nonsense. I think he would make up a story about leaving a Subway and getting beat up by Babcock in a MAGA hat. He hates him that much.

Commodore is legitimately insane. Has been for a while. If I told him Babs sucked my ******* he would turn around and tell everyone no questions asked. I call him Commacuck.

[marcaractac 3,963]

9 hours ago, bIueadams said:

yet us not winning was babcocks fault according to @kipwinger

Yeah, can't really blame that loss on Babs either. That Ducks roster was stacked. We didn't even have Rafalski yet. Not to mention Franzen has yet to pop off at this stage. 

[bIueadams 776]

Finally got around to reading the Hf main board and reddit comments about this scenario. All I can say is it is PURE KINO. Fans basically frothing at the mouth to end Babs (again) with insane statements.  Then the news coming out that its basically all false and everyone just dissapears lol.

God bless the retards at chiclets for this one lol

Here's my question though. Is Mike Babcock the Donald Trump of the NHL? It certainly has the same vibes for me. Everyone wants him to be the bad guy so much that they will stretch their own dignity to try and prove it. IDK lemme know fam.

Edited September 14, 2023 by bIueadams

[Axl Foley 224]

48 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

Finally got around to reading the Hf main board and reddit comments about this scenario. All I can say is it is PURE KINO. Fans basically frothing at the mouth to end Babs (again) with insane statements.  Then the news coming out that its basically all false and everyone just dissapears lol.

God bless the retards at chiclets for this one lol

Here's my question though. Is Mike Babcock the Donald Trump of the NHL? It certainly has the same vibes for me. Everyone wants him to be the bad guy so much that they will stretch their own dignity to try and prove it. IDK lemme know fam.

Babs does live rent free in people's heads. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Axl Foley

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

On 9/13/2023 at 7:14 PM, bIueadams said:

Finally got around to reading the Hf main board and reddit comments about this scenario. All I can say is it is PURE KINO. Fans basically frothing at the mouth to end Babs (again) with insane statements.  Then the news coming out that its basically all false and everyone just dissapears lol.

God bless the retards at chiclets for this one lol

Here's my question though. Is Mike Babcock the Donald Trump of the NHL? It certainly has the same vibes for me. Everyone wants him to be the bad guy so much that they will stretch their own dignity to try and prove it. IDK lemme know fam.

aged poorly.  Is Babcock done for good now?

[bIueadams 776]

7 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

aged poorly.  Is Babcock done for good now?

No hes available to return to the wings now