is there anything "good" about the Wings?

[Joe S 11]

I have played some pickup hockey and even coached for a year, but I am no self proclaimed expert on the game. Therefore, I would like someone who actually knows about the game to tell me if there is anything good about this team.

The way I see it, they have some potentially good players. I say potentially good because for some of them, there was a time when they actually did play good hockey. Right now, they are the laughing stock of the game of hockey, not just the NHL.

They play like ice-mites, they whack the puck when they get it with no concern what so ever as to where it goes. They dump and do not chase. They cannot complete a pass( and if they do, its only one pass, never two in a row). They never drive to the net, the best they can do is skate in that general direction once in a while before they dump the puck in the corner and head for the bench. 

The concept of puck control is completely absent from this team.  I know that they have more talent than that, so the question has to be asked, why do they consistently play that way? I can only conclude that that is the way the coaching staff wants them to play, which is the great mystery to me, because I KNOW that Steve Y knows better than that, so why does he put up with it?

It also appears to me that they do not have the conditioning to play hard the entire game, but they must have conditioning standards that are at least roughly the same as other teams. I would like to blame it all on Blashill, but they have Bylsma on the team and he did win the Cup with Pittsburg, so must have at least one coach who knows up from down. 

When Blashil was hired he was touted as a "players coach" who was well liked by all the players. I am not aware that he has benched anyone to send a message. I suspect that the problem is a little more complex than just that he is too much of a nice guy and doesn't  demand more of the players, which is what it looks like to me. 

Cant wait for the season to end. I cant find another team to root for and hate watching any game because I hate it when they show the  score of the Wings' game , or even worse, the "highlights". 
Joe S

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

To answer your question: NO

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

We suck right now.  

 

________ - ________ - _________

Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi

Zadina-Athanasiou-________

________-Veleno-________

 

________-________

Seider-Choloski

Hronek-Dekeyser

 

________

________

 

On a cup team, we have a whole top line missing, a top defensive pair missing, and a top goalie missing.  

 

This team is in complete disarray right now.  Its sad.

[F.Michael 4,590]

Back in '84 when I became a fan the Wings had Yzerman, Gallant, Probert, Kocur.

Today there's no star centerman, no team identity, and a bunch of 3rd/4th line nobody's.

I expect more of this for another 2 to 4 seasons since we are unlikely to win the lottery, and will continue to add a bunch of random average players to the roster.

8 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

We suck right now.  

 

________ - ________ - _________

Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi

Zadina-Athanasiou-________

________-Veleno-________

 

________-________

Seider-Choloski

Hronek-Dekeyser

 

________

________

 

On a cup team, we have a whole top line missing, a top defensive pair missing, and a top goalie missing.  

 

This team is in complete disarray right now.  Its sad.

This IMO is pretty accurate.

Our 'top' line is at best 2nd line quality by many teams standards.

Our forwards are so bad at times - they couldn't score in a womens' prison with a handful of pardons.

Edited February 4, 2020 by F.Michael

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Back in '84 when I became a fan the Wings had Yzerman, Gallant, Probert, Kocur.

Today there's no star centerman, no team identity, and a bunch of 3rd/4th line nobody's.

I expect more of this for another 2 to 4 seasons since we are unlikely to win the lottery, and will continue to add a bunch of random average players to the roster.

This IMO is pretty accurate.

Our 'top' line is at best 2nd line quality by many teams standards.

Our forwards are so bad at times - they couldn't score in a womens' prison with a handful of pardons.

The dude's got Cholowski higher than Hronek and Dekeyser. It's not really accurate. 

[TLGTrico 660]

2 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

We suck right now.  

 

________ - ________ - _________

Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi

Zadina-Athanasiou-________

________-Veleno-________

 

________-________

Seider-Choloski

Hronek-Dekeyser

 

________

________

 

On a cup team, we have a whole top line missing, a top defensive pair missing, and a top goalie missing.  

 

This team is in complete disarray right now.  Its sad.

Already ruling out Seider as a top pairing defenseman?

[xault 272]

This is how I feel about our current roster...

[F.Michael 4,590]

5 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

The dude's got Cholowski higher than Hronek and Dekeyser. It's not really accurate. 

Maybe he's an optimist?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

8 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

We suck right now.  

 

________ - ________ - _________

Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi

Zadina-Athanasiou-________

________-Veleno-________

 

________-________

Seider-Choloski

Hronek-Dekeyser

 

________

________

 

On a cup team, we have a whole top line missing, a top defensive pair missing, and a top goalie missing.  

 

This team is in complete disarray right now.  Its sad.

What are you getting at with this "line-up"?

You realize that by the time Veleno is on this team, your boy AA will be prematurely flying the zone in Edmonton or Arizona right? 

[LeftWinger 5,130]

On 2/4/2020 at 8:49 AM, The 91 of Ryans said:

What are you getting at with this "line-up"?

You realize that by the time Veleno is on this team, your boy AA will be prematurely flying the zone in Edmonton or Arizona right? 

I wonder what Arizona has to offer...could Yzerman get me my boy Liam Kirk? LOL! Just kidding, but he isn't doing too bad this season in Peterborough.

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by LeftWinger

[xtrememachine1 795]

Every team in the league runs into problems, they solve them, make the necessary adjustments, get better and move on.  The Red Wings, this year, are not doing that.  They started off good, ran into a problem in the form of a 10 game losing streak, made no adjustments and never really fixed it.  Its now growing and getting worse and still nothing is being done.  THAT is why we're as bad as we are right now.

I'm convinced that the Wings are trying, but not trying.  The players and coaches are trying to win games, but management isn't really making the necessary adjustments.  The team figures if they keep doing what they're doing, but harder, it'll eventually work.  A normal hockey team would have fired Blashill ages ago, made moves to cover up for Mantha and AA injuries, and bench the players that are performing the poorest.  We're not doing any of that.  Yzerman is trying to let everyone just work through it.  If this is just an evaluation year, which it appears to be, then that's all fine.  

Maybe I'm just being too optimistic, but I truly believe that we have good talent now, its just being underutilized.  I'm not saying we're a great team, but we're much better than the standings would indicate.  Next year, we get a new coach, a new system, get the most out of these young guns we have that perform so well in juniors and in the prospects tournaments and it'll make a huge difference.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Larkin is a number one center.

Mantha is a top line winger (when healthy).

Zadina is looking like a top six (possibly top line) winger.

Bertuzzi, Fabbri and Athanasiou are middle six wingers.

Smith is looking like a solid bottom six (possibly middle six) winger.

Hirose has been great in GR, and could still be a middle six winger (or trade bait).

Veleno and Rasmussen should be good middle six centers / wingers.

Svechnikov has been mediocre in GR, but could still be a bottom six winger (or trade bait).

Hronek is a top four (possibly top pair) defenseman.

Cholowski hasn't been great, but could still be a top four defenseman.

Bowey has been good offensively, bad defensively, but could still be a bottom pair defenseman (or trade bait).

Seider has been dominant in GR, and should be a top pair defenseman.

McIsaac should be a bottom four defenseman.

Things are really bad right now, but there are some definite bright spots. We desperately need to add some elite talent. Hopefully we get some luck in the upcoming draft...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Larkin is a number one center.

Only if this team has a Norris caliber D-man or elite winger (basically, Larkin will do IF this team is stacked elsewhere)

Mantha is a top line winger (when healthy).

when healthy = a big deal

Zadina is looking like a top six (possibly top line) winger.

agreed

Bertuzzi, Fabbri and Athanasiou are middle six wingers.

Bertuzzi's a top line winger. Don't soil his name by mentioning him in the same breath as Trashasnasiou

Smith is looking like a solid bottom six (possibly middle six) winger.

My new boy!

Hirose has been great in GR, and could still be a middle six winger (or trade bait).

Hirose has no future on this team

Veleno and Rasmussen should be good middle six centers / wingers.

agreed

Svechnikov has been mediocre in GR, but could still be a bottom six winger (or trade bait).

I think he's done with this org.

Hronek is a top four (possibly top pair) defenseman.

yup

Cholowski hasn't been great, but could still be a top four defenseman.

7th D man. Total Loser

Bowey has been good offensively, bad defensively, but could still be a bottom pair defenseman (or trade bait).

*** this guy

Seider has been dominant in GR, and should be a top pair defenseman.

Top pair floor

McIsaac should be a bottom four defenseman.

Bottom pair

Things are really bad right now, but there are some definite bright spots. We desperately need to add some elite talent. Hopefully we get some luck in the upcoming draft..

IMO this team is worse than you think but a little better maybe than Bill says. Barely a top 10 prospect organization according to Wheeler over at the Athletic and not even top 10 according to Pronman. I hate this team so much right now. 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Only if this team has a Norris caliber D-man or elite winger (basically, Larkin will do IF this team is stacked elsewhere)

I'm not sure how a Norris caliber defenseman would make or break Larkin as a 1C, but I agree that he needs help on the wings. A top line of Lafreniere - Larkin - Mantha would be an elite line. With that sort of talent on the wings, Larkin could be a 90 point, two-way center.

9 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Bertuzzi's a top line winger. Don't soil his name by mentioning him in the same breath as Trashasnasiou

I think Bertuzzi is better than Athanasiou, and probably Fabbri as well, but I still think all three are middle six wingers. Ideally, we'll have Bertuzzi on our 2nd line in a couple years.

11 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Hirose has no future on this team

I don't really disagree, but I think he could be an effective 3rd line winger. Maybe another team shows interest...

12 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I think he's done with this org.

You may be right, but similar situation as Hirose. Maybe another team...

13 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

7th D man. Total Loser

You're giving up on a 21 year old defenseman that has shown good offensive instincts? If he can improve on his defensive awareness, I think at worst, he could be a solid bottom pair defenseman.

17 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

*** this guy

Bowey is the new guy everyone loves to hate, despite him not being near as bad as everyone makes him out to be...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 

Bowey is the new guy everyone loves to hate, despite him not being near as bad as everyone makes him out to be...

If it makes you feel better, I pretty much hate everyone on this team right now except maybe Bertuzzi, Hronek, Zadina, and Smith. 

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not sure how a Norris caliber defenseman would make or break Larkin as a 1C, but I agree that he needs help on the wings. A top line of Lafreniere - Larkin - Mantha would be an elite line. With that sort of talent on the wings, Larkin could be a 90 point, two-way center.

 

I meant, if we are to win with Larkin as our #1 C, we better have elite players in several other areas (I used D as an example, but it could also be goaltending. Understand?) 

Edited February 4, 2020 by The 91 of Ryans

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 hours ago, Joe S said:

I have played some pickup hockey and even coached for a year, but I am no self proclaimed expert on the game. Therefore, I would like someone who actually knows about the game to tell me if there is anything good about this team.

The way I see it, they have some potentially good players. I say potentially good because for some of them, there was a time when they actually did play good hockey. Right now, they are the laughing stock of the game of hockey, not just the NHL.

They play like ice-mites, they whack the puck when they get it with no concern what so ever as to where it goes. They dump and do not chase. They cannot complete a pass( and if they do, its only one pass, never two in a row). They never drive to the net, the best they can do is skate in that general direction once in a while before they dump the puck in the corner and head for the bench. 

The concept of puck control is completely absent from this team.  I know that they have more talent than that, so the question has to be asked, why do they consistently play that way? I can only conclude that that is the way the coaching staff wants them to play, which is the great mystery to me, because I KNOW that Steve Y knows better than that, so why does he put up with it?

It also appears to me that they do not have the conditioning to play hard the entire game, but they must have conditioning standards that are at least roughly the same as other teams. I would like to blame it all on Blashill, but they have Bylsma on the team and he did win the Cup with Pittsburg, so must have at least one coach who knows up from down. 

When Blashil was hired he was touted as a "players coach" who was well liked by all the players. I am not aware that he has benched anyone to send a message. I suspect that the problem is a little more complex than just that he is too much of a nice guy and doesn't  demand more of the players, which is what it looks like to me. 

Cant wait for the season to end. I cant find another team to root for and hate watching any game because I hate it when they show the  score of the Wings' game , or even worse, the "highlights". 
Joe S

Like @xtrememachine1 said it's an evaluation year and tank year. Yzerman has been given permission to allow us to fail and evaluate us before he overhauls the roster.

Having a "players coach" doesn't exactly work either when all your "players" suck ass. An actual tactician like Babcock would have had this team more focused, more disciplined, and better conditioned. The types of play Blashill allows his players to get away with on a nightly basis would never be allowed in a Babcockian system. He would (deservedly) be bag skating them and chewing all their heads off and they would be better for it.

Can't wait for Yzerman to trade everyone and fire Blash. It's coming. We just have to be patient.

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

14 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I meant, if we are to win with Larkin as our #1 C, we better have elite players in several other areas (I used D as an example, but it could also be goaltending. Understand?) 

Yeah, makes sense. I agree. We also need a 2C at or close to as good as Larkin.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, makes sense. I agree. We also need a 2C at or close to as good as Larkin.

Yes. And preferably better offensively. A guy like Dach or Zegras would have been perfect. Or Necas. Maybe Stutzle or Rossi. I dunno. I start sketching future lineups and there are just so many ******* holes. Which is why I've been talking 5 years until competitive again. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Maybe he's an optimist?

What? An eye doctor? What r u talking about?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

20 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Like @xtrememachine1 said it's an evaluation year and tank year. Yzerman has been given permission to allow us to fail and evaluate us before he overhauls the roster.

Having a "players coach" doesn't exactly work either when all your "players" suck ass. An actual tactician like Babcock would have had this team more focused, more disciplined, and better conditioned. The types of play Blashill allows his players to get away with on a nightly basis would never be allowed in a Babcockian system. He would (deservedly) be bag skating them and chewing all their heads off and they would be better for it.

Can't wait for Yzerman to trade everyone and fire Blash. It's coming. We just have to be patient.

 

Liked for this. Not for the Babcock 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Liked for this. Not for the Babcock 

You're so close to accepting Babcock. Take the plunge. It feels great. I want my players to suffer like we do.

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Yes. And preferably better offensively. A guy like Dach or Zegras would have been perfect. Or Necas. Maybe Stutzle or Rossi. I dunno. I start sketching future lineups and there are just so many ******* holes. Which is why I've been talking 5 years until competitive again. 

This is rock bottom. Steady, gradual improvement from here on out.

2019-20 - dead last, by a mile
2020-21 - bottom 5
2021-22 - bubble team
2022-23 - playoff team
2023-24 - contender

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

This is rock bottom. Steady, gradual improvement from here on out.

2019-20 - dead last, by a mile
2020-21 - bottom 5
2021-22 - bubble team
2022-23 - playoff team
2023-24 - contender

2019-20 - the poop's poop - but only draft 4th

2020-21 - last, but better (this year's team could have won 7 more games at this point and still be last) - pick 3rd

2021 - 22 - bottom 5 - pick 7th 

2022 - 23 - bottom 10 - finally win the lottery

2023 - 24 - playoffs 

 

 

[F.Michael 4,590]

24 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You're so close to accepting Babcock. Take the plunge. It feels great. I want my players to suffer like we do.

Now if Grand Master Y were to let Blashill go this summer...

What's the likelihood of Cooper being available, and/or Gallant/Laviolette wanting to coach the Wings - considering the condition the team is in?

The more I think about it - Babcock just might be the guy who'll take the risk/reward as a reclamation project both for himself, and for the Detroit Red Wings.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Now if Grand Master Y were to let Blashill go this summer...

What's the likelihood of Cooper being available, and/or Gallant/Laviolette wanting to coach the Wings - considering the condition the team is in?

The more I think about it - Babcock just might be the guy who'll take the risk/reward as a reclamation project both for himself, and for the Detroit Red Wings.

The whole cooper being available meme is what it is. A meme. Ill believe it when I see it.

Lavs and Gallant are B level coaches. If we want a D level team coached by a B level coach sure i guess.

Babs is top line defensive coach who will either turn ur team of 3 stars recruits into defensive all stars or piss off the lazy ones till they wanna quit. We can afford to let the lazy ones quit.

Its a good story too. Babs restarts his career where he belongs humbled by his experience in toronto.