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krsmith17

2020 Offseason

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1 minute ago, LeftWinger said:

yes, the rise of Sanderson has seriously made the chance of many changes in the top three less likely.

The "rise" and "fall" of some of these players is completely media driven. I highly doubt it's as much of a thing inside NHL organizations.

Most of these players haven't played a single game in 6 months, so not a whole lot has changed. Sure, some of the European players can alter their stock slightly, since they're actually playing again, but even then, I doubt a team that has heavily scouted a Stutzle or Raymond are seeing anything they didn't already know about the player.

The meetings / interviews since March could change things slightly as well, but again, teams (general managers / scouts) have gotten to know these kids inside and out long before the stoppage.

I would think if Sanderson were ranked 5th on a team's draft board back in March, he's still right around there in September / October.

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...so IF as rumored that LA may consider taking Drysdale at 2, and Sanderson is also considered top 5, once again, if you are Ottawa, do you NOT take Sanderson at 3 and risk Detroit taking him at 4 or do you take him at 3, leaving BOTH Byfield and Stutzle available at 4,then take whichever one Detroit does not take?

1. LAF

2. Drysdale

3. Sanderson

4. Byfield (Stutzle)

5. Stutzle (Byfield)

...still looks like an amazing two picks for Ottawa.

also re: Mantha for another top 10 pick. I would trade him straight up for the pick as long as we were drafting his replacement. (ie. Raymond, Rossi, Perfetti) But that being said, as long as he does not become a prick about his contract, I'd just assume keep him. BUT, if I do want Askarov, and he falls to around 20ish, I would love to make a deal getting another pick to get him. Assuming teams 6-10 are even interested in Mantha, or the likes of 13-20ish are interested in making a deal, because none of those teams in the 13-20range are hurting too much for cap space. Unless they want to land a HUGE name UFA. How awesome would it be to come out of the 1st round with Byfield (Stutzle,) Raymond and Askarov? Whew! 

Edited by LeftWinger

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12 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Mock my endorsement of seider. I encourage it. I said he was the best Dman going into that draft. I not only still believe that, but i now believe hes the best dman not named miro heiskanen. This is a multi norris winner thru and thru. U should be as excited as i. This is the first and only real building block to a future powerhouse we have. Our other prospects are garbage in comparison. Seiders gap control, positioning, ability to read the play, and ability to take over the game is out of control. This is the closest we have to a lidstrom. We all should be very excited. This is a 40 pt all situations dman who can eat 30 minutes a night. A stallion. Get ur lotion and ur tissues ready u degenerate.

The way Norris trophy voting goes nowadays, I doubt Seider wins it with just 40 points.

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12 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Mock my endorsement of seider. I encourage it. I said he was the best Dman going into that draft. I not only still believe that, but i now believe hes the best dman not named miro heiskanen. This is a multi norris winner thru and thru. U should be as excited as i. This is the first and only real building block to a future powerhouse we have. Our other prospects are garbage in comparison. Seiders gap control, positioning, ability to read the play, and ability to take over the game is out of control. This is the closest we have to a lidstrom. We all should be very excited. This is a 40 pt all situations dman who can eat 30 minutes a night. A stallion. Get ur lotion and ur tissues ready u degenerate.

A 40 point dman is gonna win multiple Norris trophies? Only time a dman with a point total that low won a Norris was Subban in the lockout shortened season. 

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9 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

...so IF as rumored that LA may consider taking Drysdale at 2, and Sanderson is also considered top 5, once again, if you are Ottawa, do you NOT take Sanderson at 3 and risk Detroit taking him at 4 or do you take him at 3, leaving BOTH Byfield and Stutzle available at 4,then take whichever one Detroit does not take?

1. LAF

2. Drysdale

3. Sanderson

4. Byfield (Stutzle)

5. Stutzle (Byfield)

...still looks like an amazing two picks for Ottawa.

Again, there's no way both Byfield and Stutzle are available at 4. One, maybe. Two, no chance.

Also, Ottawa, like every team, should be taking BPA at 3 and 5. If that happens to be two forwards, so be it. If they have one of Drysdale or Sanderson in their top 5, great, but it's very possible that they value the forwards more.

14 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

also re: Mantha for another top 10 pick. I would trade him straight up for the pick as long as we were drafting his replacement. (ie. Raymond, Rossi, Perfetti) But that being said, as long as he does not become a prick about his contract, I'd just assume keep him. BUT, if I do want Askarov, and he falls to around 20ish, I would love to make a deal getting another pick to get him. Assuming teams 6-10 are even interested in Mantha, or the likes of 13-20ish are interested in making a deal, because none of those teams in the 13-20range are hurting too much for cap space. Unless they want to land a HUGE name UFA. How awesome would it be to come out of the 1st round with Byfield (Stutzle,) Raymond and Askarov? Whew! 

Trading Mantha straight up for a pick in the 10 range would be a terrible move. I'd consider if for a top 5 pick, but even then, the team would probably have to add a sweetener. There's no guarantee that a Raymond, Rossi or Perfetti will be as good as Mantha, let alone a Lundell, Holtz or Quinn...

If you were offering Mantha straight up for pick 9 or 10, I guarantee Minnesota or Winnipeg would take it and run.

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2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

...so IF as rumored that LA may consider taking Drysdale at 2, and Sanderson is also considered top 5, once again, if you are Ottawa, do you NOT take Sanderson at 3 and risk Detroit taking him at 4 or do you take him at 3, leaving BOTH Byfield and Stutzle available at 4,then take whichever one Detroit does not take?

1. LAF

2. Drysdale

3. Sanderson

4. Byfield (Stutzle)

5. Stutzle (Byfield)

...still looks like an amazing two picks for Ottawa.

also re: Mantha for another top 10 pick. I would trade him straight up for the pick as long as we were drafting his replacement. (ie. Raymond, Rossi, Perfetti) But that being said, as long as he does not become a prick about his contract, I'd just assume keep him. BUT, if I do want Askarov, and he falls to around 20ish, I would love to make a deal getting another pick to get him. Assuming teams 6-10 are even interested in Mantha, or the likes of 13-20ish are interested in making a deal, because none of those teams in the 13-20range are hurting too much for cap space. Unless they want to land a HUGE name UFA. How awesome would it be to come out of the 1st round with Byfield (Stutzle,) Raymond and Askarov? Whew! 

Ya i think your confusing us with the sens lol they’re the only team with the realistic shot of getting byfield/stutzle/raymond and trading up for askarov ... ugh

 

we can get raymond at 4 so we’re good ... we dont need perfetti cause draper said he drinks his whey protein shakes daily and opens doors for the ladies , as for mantha id love to keep him but if he refuses to sign 5-7 yrs we sadly have to move on because i think two years and under and hes a ufa? Cant let him walk for nothing , same with bertuzzi and larkin when the time comes ..its sad but thats where we’re at 

and if we trade mantha id want alot more than just one of askarov/holtz (just my preference if he were to be moved 7-12 ish and who i think might be there) ...id need a top prospect back as well ... f***en hell if teams are giving up a 1st to get rid of a bad player wed better f***en get lots more than that for mantha  .... buffalo is the only one in that range i can see maybe taking a gamble to make eichel happy . Dont see anyone i like that much there that i think theyd be willing to part with

oilers at 14 and habs 16 would be realistic ones but that would be too far back for my liking , anyways after all that nonsense im basically saying lock up mantha and lets keep the rebuild going and add some garbage contracts 

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6 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Ya i think your confusing us with the sens lol they’re the only team with the realistic shot of getting byfield/stutzle/raymond and trading up for askarov ... ugh

 

we can get raymond at 4 so we’re good ... we dont need perfetti cause draper said he drinks his whey protein shakes daily and opens doors for the ladies , as for mantha id love to keep him but if he refuses to sign 5-7 yrs we sadly have to move on because i think two years and under and hes a ufa? Cant let him walk for nothing , same with bertuzzi and larkin when the time comes ..its sad but thats where we’re at 

and if we trade mantha id want alot more than just one of askarov/holtz (just my preference if he were to be moved 7-12 ish and who i think might be there) ...id need a top prospect back as well ... f***en hell if teams are giving up a 1st to get rid of a bad player wed better f***en get lots more than that for mantha  .... buffalo is the only one in that range i can see maybe taking a gamble to make eichel happy . Dont see anyone i like that much there that i think theyd be willing to part with

oilers at 14 and habs 16 would be realistic ones but that would be too far back for my liking , anyways after all that nonsense im basically saying lock up mantha and lets keep the rebuild going and add some garbage contracts 

I’m sure Holland is starting to feel some heat with how his club has been performing, or should I say underperforming.

He might be willing to part with picks/prospects for Mantha.

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2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

we can get raymond at 4 so we’re good ... we dont need perfetti cause draper said he drinks his whey protein shakes daily and opens doors for the ladies , as for mantha id love to keep him but if he refuses to sign 5-7 yrs we sadly have to move on because i think two years and under and hes a ufa? Cant let him walk for nothing , same with bertuzzi and larkin when the time comes ..its sad but thats where we’re at 

I don't get this "if he refuses to sign long-term" nonsense... Everything I've heard and read on Mantha is that he wants to stay in Detroit. He just bought a massive home somewhere in the suburbs. He's not going anywhere, and I don't think he will be difficult to get signed. Same applies to Larkin and Bertuzzi. Most players are loyal to the team that drafted them, until given a reason not to be. I highly doubt the Ilitch's or Yzerman have done anything to make them want out.

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3 hours ago, F.Michael said:

I’m sure Holland is starting to feel some heat with how his club has been performing, or should I say underperforming.

He might be willing to part with picks/prospects for Mantha.

The thing is whats he willing to part with? Im not sold on lavoie ... doubt they move bouchard and not 100% sold on broberg  ...i dont know what wed be able to get from edm

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't get this "if he refuses to sign long-term" nonsense... Everything I've heard and read on Mantha is that he wants to stay in Detroit. He just bought a massive home somewhere in the suburbs. He's not going anywhere, and I don't think he will be difficult to get signed. Same applies to Larkin and Bertuzzi. Most players are loyal to the team that drafted them, until given a reason not to be. I highly doubt the Ilitch's or Yzerman have done anything to make them want out.

Calm down dude , not saying he wont sign , its likely he does and want him im just saying “if” he decides he wants a 1 year deal or 2 thatll likely lead to him leaving then we have no choice but to deal him thats all 

Same with the others ,not saying they dont want to stay but  we cant force these players to want to stay in this losing environment forever and if it comes to a point where they won’t sign longterm then we have zero choice but to move them , thats all

mantha bertuzzi larkin for me are the future veteran guys to lead the way , i couldnt give a s*** about glendening etc.. everyone else 24+ can go for all i care

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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15 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Calm down dude , not saying he wont sign , its likely he does and want him im just saying “if” he decides he wants a 1 year deal or 2 thatll likely lead to him leaving then we have no choice but to deal him thats all 

Same with the others ,not saying they dont want to stay but  we cant force these players to want to stay in this losing environment forever and if it comes to a point where they won’t sign longterm then we have zero chance but to move them , thats all

mantha bertuzzi larkin for me are the future veteran guys to lead the way , i couldnt give a s*** about glendening etc.. everyone else 24+ can go for all i care

Yeah, I was really riled up there... Thanks for calming me down... :rolleyes:

"If" Mantha decides he wants a one or two year deal, that also doesn't mean we trade him now. It means we have one or two years to try to extend him, and if for whatever reason we can't, then we look to trade him.

No one said anything about "forcing players to stay" either. Like I said, Mantha has made it clear that he wants to stay. There's absolutely no reason to think that will change.

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24 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, I was really riled up there... Thanks for calming me down... :rolleyes:

"If" Mantha decides he wants a one or two year deal, that also doesn't mean we trade him now. It means we have one or two years to try to extend him, and if for whatever reason we can't, then we look to trade him.

No one said anything about "forcing players to stay" either. Like I said, Mantha has made it clear that he wants to stay. There's absolutely no reason to think that will change.

If he signs two years i believe itll lead him to ufa and we need to trade him by the deadline and not take the risk imo as much as i like the guy , he’d have more value to a team if hes in two post seasons and if he wanted to sign longterm he would have ... 1 year deal yes we have time till the next off season to discuss a contract 

your probably right ,but we wont know until the time to sign arrives and in the end itll all come down to money and term as well , if hes not happy with the $ he wont sign

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11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I am excited for the kid. Just not to the point where I need lotion.

That is why u fail - yoda

9 hours ago, TLGTrico said:

The way Norris trophy voting goes nowadays, I doubt Seider wins it with just 40 points.

 

9 hours ago, marcaractac said:

A 40 point dman is gonna win multiple Norris trophies? Only time a dman with a point total that low won a Norris was Subban in the lockout shortened season. 

All this tells me is u both dont understand how good seider is defensively yet. You'll see. Multi norris. 

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9 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

That is why u fail - yoda

 

All this tells me is u both dont understand how good seider is defensively yet. You'll see. Multi norris. 

I mean, I agree that a dman who scores 40 points a year and is the best defensive dman in the league should get Norris looks. But all these jackass writers care about is dmen who SCOAR MOST POINTZ

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re: Mantha. You have to ask yourself at what point are The Red Wings going to be back in serious contention? 4-5 years? Ok, that puts Mantha over 30, not over the hill by any means, but maybe if you could get a younger elite prospect, or a top 10 pick in the draft, how much better off will they be in 4-5 years? A player at 31 years old, possibly making over $10 (if he only signs a 3 year deal, then another one as a UFA, unless he leaves as UFA) or a player quite possibly of the same or better caliber at 23 years old? I think if (Buffalo for example) offered the #8 pick and a high prospect (Cozens? (may be too high) for Mantha to put on a line with Eichel, Yzerman would have to jump on it. Plus, Buffalo is also under the salary floor, so they could also pay Mantha a ton of cash. 

I have nothing against keeping Mantha either, I am just saying if offers came rolling in and something like this came up? I'd have to say goodbye to him.

Edited by LeftWinger

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28 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

re: Mantha. You have to ask yourself at what point are The Red Wings going to be back in serious contention? 4-5 years? Ok, that puts Mantha over 30, not over the hill by any means, but maybe if you could get a younger elite prospect, or a top 10 pick in the draft, how much better off will they be in 4-5 years? A player at 31 years old, possibly making over $10 (if he only signs a 3 year deal, then another one as a UFA, unless he leaves as UFA) or a player quite possibly of the same or better caliber at 23 years old? I think if (Buffalo for example) offered the #8 pick and a high prospect (Cozens? (may be too high) for Mantha to put on a line with Eichel, Yzerman would have to jump on it. Plus, Buffalo is also under the salary floor, so they could also pay Mantha a ton of cash. 

I have nothing against keeping Mantha either, I am just saying if offers came rolling in and something like this came up? I'd have to say goodbye to him.

A top 10 pick straight up is very different than the 8th overall pick AND Dylan Cozens. I wouldn't trade Mantha for either of those pieces individually, but for both, absolutely.

I'm not completely against trading Mantha or any of our players / prospects, but it has to be a trade that makes sense. To me, trading Mantha for a top 10 pick OR a top prospect, doesn't make sense. It would have to be both.

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2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

re: Mantha. You have to ask yourself at what point are The Red Wings going to be back in serious contention? 4-5 years? Ok, that puts Mantha over 30, not over the hill by any means, but maybe if you could get a younger elite prospect, or a top 10 pick in the draft, how much better off will they be in 4-5 years? A player at 31 years old, possibly making over $10 (if he only signs a 3 year deal, then another one as a UFA, unless he leaves as UFA) or a player quite possibly of the same or better caliber at 23 years old? I think if (Buffalo for example) offered the #8 pick and a high prospect (Cozens? (may be too high) for Mantha to put on a line with Eichel, Yzerman would have to jump on it. Plus, Buffalo is also under the salary floor, so they could also pay Mantha a ton of cash. 

I have nothing against keeping Mantha either, I am just saying if offers came rolling in and something like this came up? I'd have to say goodbye to him.

You don't trade a legit power forward for futures Cozens+#8 pick isn't happening. And on what planet will Mantha command anywhere close to $10 million per. Right now Mantha isn't worth more then $6.5m to $7m per over 5 or 6 years he hasn't proven enough that he can stay healthy for a single season. Mantha isn't getting anywhere close to $10 million per season that's just plain insane Mantha is no Patrik Laine i'm for moving him at the right price. Keep hearing Domi for Mantha yet Domi is only5 months younger then Mantha so that makes no sense either needs to be 23 and under.

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

A top 10 pick straight up is very different than the 8th overall pick AND Dylan Cozens. I wouldn't trade Mantha for either of those pieces individually, but for both, absolutely.

I'm not completely against trading Mantha or any of our players / prospects, but it has to be a trade that makes sense. To me, trading Mantha for a top 10 pick OR a top prospect, doesn't make sense. It would have to be both.

I'd trade anyone currently on this team for Buffalo's 8th + Cozens. 

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2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I'd trade anyone currently on this team for Buffalo's 8th + Cozens. 

I think it would take a bit more of a sure thing for me to move Larkin, but it's definitely close. Cozens may be better suited as a winger, and who in the 8 range could we take as Larkin's replacement? Lundell? I'm not sure I'd be too confident in that tradeoff...

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2016: five more seasons and we'll be back to contention.

2020: five more seasons and we'll be back to contention. 

2024: Veleno is our Johnathan Toews. Zadina is our Kane. Seider is our Keith and Mcisaac is our Seabrook. We have the cup again. 

Reality 2024: Veleno is Val Filppula. Zadina is Hudler. Mcisaac is Bad Stuart. 

When did u wake up n realize this team is 10 years from contention? Did u talk to other fans and finally realize no one gives a s*** about larkin and zadina? Did u finally take the tank pill and realize blashill is a placeholder? That yzerman has no intention of wnning the cup with any of these players? Are u still pretending mantha matters? 

I look forward to a productive season with u all. 

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19 hours ago, diehardredwingsfan58 said:

You don't trade a legit power forward for futures Cozens+#8 pick isn't happening. And on what planet will Mantha command anywhere close to $10 million per. Right now Mantha isn't worth more then $6.5m to $7m per over 5 or 6 years he hasn't proven enough that he can stay healthy for a single season. Mantha isn't getting anywhere close to $10 million per season that's just plain insane Mantha is no Patrik Laine i'm for moving him at the right price. Keep hearing Domi for Mantha yet Domi is only5 months younger then Mantha so that makes no sense either needs to be 23 and under.

Mantha will qualify as a UFA in two season's. Of course Yzerman will want to lock him up for 4-5 seasons so he gets a few "UFA" season's out of him at whatever the price they settle on. ($6M-ish) But this is a business, If Mantha continues to produce or even get better, $6M will be a steal if he is indeed signed for 4-5 years. BUT, Mantha and his agent know this, if Mantha scores at a 30-40 goal rate for the next couple of years, he will be in the $9M-$10M range for UFA's, so why would he sign anything longer than 3 years? He is going to want to cash in at 28 years old (his prime) not get paid less than what he should be getting through 30-31 years old. After that, he has missed his opportunity to cash in. I never said he deserves $10M NOW. BUT, if he signs a 3 year deal at $6M, at 28 (if he continues to rise) he'll get more. It's in HIS best interest to sign a 3 year deal now, and cash in at 28 years old.

Let's say that he continues to be the player he his and gets better as the years go on, here is how I can see him (his agent) playing this:

Sign 3 year $18M-$20M contract now, taking him into UFA status. Giving The Red Wings ONE year into that status...

Sign 8 year $80M-$90M contract as a UFA in the prime of his career. 

So, yes, by the time The Red Wings are contenders again in 4-5 years, Mantha (as long as he continues his rise) will be a 31 year old making $10M or so a year. And if he is still super valuable to this team that is awesome! My point was (if Raymond, for example) also projects to be as good as the scouts are saying, what is better for your team when you are in serious contention. Also, like I said, I am saying we have to trade him, I am a Mantha fan! Loved the pick when they got him, still love him now. I was just throwing "What if's" out there.

Edited by LeftWinger

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On 9/10/2020 at 10:03 PM, krsmith17 said:

So what's the max price you would pay for Danault? For me it's a 2nd round pick (not our 2020 32nd overall), and maybe a mid tier prospect. I think Montreal would be looking for much more than that.

If it's a "We're getting Danault and he's not particularly happy about it and he's probably going to test the UFA waters next summer" situation, I'm not giving up much. I think a 2nd would be reasonable, yeah.

If, on the other hand, it's a "We're getting Danault and we firmly believe he's open to doing an extension right away, because we feel we need a Danault for a few years and we believe he knows we feel that way" situation, I might go as high as Fabbri + Rasmussen.

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15 minutes ago, Dabura said:

If it's a "We're getting Danault and he's not particularly happy about it and he's probably going to test the UFA waters next summer" situation, I'm not giving up much. I think a 2nd would be reasonable, yeah.

If, on the other hand, it's a "We're getting Danault and we firmly believe he's open to doing an extension right away, because we feel we need a Danault for a few years and we believe he knows we feel that way" situation, I might go as high as Fabbri + Rasmussen.

I'd be fine with a 2nd round pick, but there's no way Bergevin gives him up for that little, regardless of the situation. Fabbri + Rasmussen is too rich for me, even with an extension in place.

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