2021 Off-Season (Too Soon?)

[Dabura 12,232]

5 hours ago, mackel said:

Zadina is at best 3rd liner on a decent + team.  But in fairness to him our dolt of a coach is trying to make him a 200ft player... the one assest Zadina has is his shot... when he's not scoring goals he's a replacement level player.  If we want anything noteworthy out of him we should deploy him like Montreal deploys Caulfield as an offense first shooter with linemates and D to make up for the defensive coverage.

Zadina's D game is fine. Always has been. Blashill's said as much. If anything, the real challenge for Zadina has been finding ways to create offense in the o-zone, e.g. being more aggressive in the corners. And, to his credit, he showed a lot of growth in that regard this season. Anyone who watched the games saw that. It's just that the points aren't coming (yet).

Deploying him "like Montreal deploys Caufield as an offense first shooter with linemates and D" wasn't an option this season because of the injuries. Blashill consistently played Zadina in a top-line role because he was consistently one of our better players and he showed he could handle it. If you wanted Zadina in an all-offense role, then he would've been playing on a line with, like, Filppula and Gagner. And, in that case, with Bertuzzi and Larkin and Fabbri out, who's eating the tough top-line minutes? See the problem?

If we're going to criticize Zadina (and Blashill, for that matter), let's criticize him for actual things. "He's bad defensively" isn't an actual thing. An example of an actual thing is "He got juicy minutes on the top power play unit and couldn't consistently do the one thing we'd reasonably expect him to be able to do, which is bury shots from the half-wall when he has time and space."

[Dabura 12,232]

4 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Hughes, Boqvist, Bouchard, Dobson, Farabee, Smith, Lundkvist, and Sandin all would have been better choices. All Dmen besides Farabee. I'm starting to think Veleno is going to prove better at #30 as well...

Thing is, pretty much all those players were drafted by organizations that are icing actual NHL teams. As in, like, actual NHL forward groups and actual NHL defense groups and actual NHL power plays. I don't look at any of those players and say, "Yeah, this guy is the reason why his team is an actual legit NHL team. He's driving that bus. They'd be wallowing in the gutter with the Wings if they didn't have him."

Would I take Hughes in a redraft? Sure. But let's be clear on what Hughes is right now (and possibly forever), which is a super-sheltered all-offense defenseman who pots half his points on the power play. Is he a top-pairing defenseman on a Cup-winning team? Can he do heavy lifting and consistently win matchups against the league's best players? I'm not so sure. Maybe if he's paired with Victor Hedman or Alex Pietrangelo – but that's sort of my point. If he needs a Hedman, he's more Rafalski than he is Lidstrom. (The elephant in the room, of course, is Seider could end up being That Guy you'd love to pair with Hughes. But hindsight is 20/20.)

As for Veleno...I don't think he's shown much, tbh. We're a team with 1 centerman yet it's taken Veleno this long just to get his cup of coffee. (Granted, COVID played a role in that.) He's probably gonna start next season in Grand Rapids and get a half season of NHL play in and then he's probably gonna take at least another half season to really get his feet under him at the NHL level. So, if we're down on Zadina for putting up 37 points in 86 NHL games, let's note that Veleno has put up 1 point in 5 NHL games.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 6/20/2021 at 8:32 PM, BarkBurgerman said:

The last and most relevant season is cherry picking lol?

Yes, because:

1. It was both his best season last year and a shortened season. No way to know if he could have sustained that scoring level (probably not) over a full season.

2. His stats over the previous 6 seasons say something completely different than last season. Over his career, he has scored less than Larkin. Last season was the exception, not the rule.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

1. Excuses
2. Excuses

2019/20: "it's just a down year, he'll bounce back"
>gets worse
2020/21: "It's just a down year, he'll bounce back"
now I'm really not buying the BS

I have this radical notion that we should actually evaluate players based on their body of work, instead of making up excuses for it.

Over the last 4 seasons Larkin has averaged out as a 60pt center. And over the last two seasons he's trending downward. Had he averaged that 4 season average this year (he didn't) it would have stuck him as the 33rd center in the league. Instead he ended up in an 8-way tie for 70th center. Not even top6.

I'll be very surprised if Larkin continues to get worse from here. Not even I foresaw him producing this little. But if this season is an outlier than so is his 73 pt season. Kid evens out as a 60 pt 2nd line center.

 

Why are you deflecting? I am talking about Reinhart. Why you talking about Larkin?

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

who are we giving up?

[LeftWinger 5,153]

12 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Zadina + Cholowski + 1st/2nd

Is that maybe too much to give up? Considering all the stats and comparison's of reinhart and Larkin, Zadina's potential and consistent rise in points and up the chain of forwards, that just might be too much. Plus Reinhart would have to be protected (unless the deal is made after the expansion draft.) so that would box out another forward. Would Sam really be good enough to be the #1 C here? I mean, is he THAT much better than Larkin or would it be more like a 2A and 2B combo? Even if Larkin or Reinhart played wing, would they still (on most NHL teams) be a legit top 3 or just on Detroit? If I'm giving up a 6th OA plus Zadina (at this point Cholo is just a throw in) I am really hoping to get a real #1 C...but then again, that may cost a ton more.

Honestly, I would do that trade for Eichel, Zadina + Cholowski + 6th OA AND a 2nd. Then again, I'd much rather target a top 2 D-Man with the 6th OA. If Werenski were available, now we'd be talking. I am not so sure he's available though with all the talk of Jones being dealt.

8 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

We dont need 2 dylan larkin’s at C , keep the faith we’ll get the wright stuff soon

or someone who is bedard than what we have now!

[marcaractac 3,963]

8 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Cause that's your hangup is it not? Why would we acquire Reinhart when Larkin is "better"? Forget that we need another top6 center regardless of how good or bad Larkin is...

Both from the same draft class. Both played their first full season in their draft+1 year. Both have played center and wing at times. Both have had good linemates at times, but both have played on horrid teams for most of that time (though Larkin did make the playoffs his first year, whereas Reinhart never has).

Since their start of full seasons career average PPG:

Larkin: 0.6674
Reinhart: 0.6606

The difference is negligible. A difference of a half a pt over a season. They produce at pretty much an identical rate spread over their careers.

Sam Reinhart:

1st full season: 0.54 (BUF finishes 23)
2nd: 0.59 (BUF finishes 26)
3rd: 0.60 (BUF finishes 31)
4th: 0.79 (BUF finishes 27)
5th: 0.72 (BUF finishes 25)
6th: 0.74 (BUF finishes 31)

Dylan Larkin:

1st full season: 0.56 (DET finishes 15th)
2nd: 0.40 (DET finishes 25)
3rd: 0.77 (DET finishes 27)
4th: 0.96 (DET finishes 28)
5th: 0.75 (DET finishes 31)
6th: 0.52 (DET finishes 27)

However it's very clear that Reinhart is a model of scoring consistency, whereas Larkin's peaks are very high and valleys very low.

If we remove both players best seasons (Larkin's statistical outlier) their careers look like this:

Larkin: 0.6000
Reinhart: 0.6380

A difference of 3.1 pts over a season in advantage of Reinhart.

Remove both players worst seasons (only fair):

Larkin: 0.7120
Reinhart: 0.6880

A difference of 1.9 pts over a season in favor of Larkin.

Remove both players best and worst seasons and you get this:

Larkin: 0.6500
Reinhart: 0.6625

A difference of 1 pt over a season in favor of Reinhart.

IDK what this proves beyond my own level of autism

But if you find Larkin's scoring acceptable, you should absolutely love Reinharts. They produce at the exact same rate, albeit Reinhart is more consistent and he's not trending into the ground. That said, do not be confused because I absolutely do not think they are identical players. Larkin is MUCH better on defense, and Reinhart has much better playmaking and vision on the O side IMO.

Larkin has nearly 300 more shots on net over their careers than Reinhart has, but Reinhart sports a 4.5% higher shooting percentage. I think that speaks to how much more of a calculated offensive player Reinhart is over Larkin. Don't believe just watch them play. I'd take Reinhart's offense over Larkin's anyday, and in turn I'd take Larkin's defense of Reinhart's.

Acquiring Reinhart would mean playing him in offensive situations with guys like Vrana over Larkin. Allowing Larkin to play more even minutes and PK. If that makes him 1st or 2nd C I don't really care.

 

For the tl;dr, Reinhart would be an AWESOME complement to Larkin as top six centers.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

OR we target the hell out of RNH. He's UFA. We have tons of cap space, only Seattle has more because they still have $81.5M. Yes he's 28, but he is damn good. He would be our #1 C for sure. IF we're talking a 5 year (give or take) timeline, he'd still only be 33. Yzerman was 31 before his first Cup, and with the incoming talent, plus the awesome trading and drafting from Steve, it may be less than 5 years before they become legit contenders. I think Larkin was better on the wing anyhow. Your C's could be RNH - Veleno - Rasmussen - Glenny? They have LW and RW NHL talent to spread around, especially if you throw Larkin in that mix. Vrana, Fabbri, Bertuzzi, Erne, Zadina. They could give Ryan another year, plus they still have Panik to fill out a 4th line.

Look at the D in the minors, that could legit be our starting 6 in a couple of seasons, if they are able to add a Hughes or Edvinsson or Clarke with the 6th, then maybe a Cossa at 22 (I know its 23, but Arizona isn't drafting) the back end is very solid. I know Seider is pegged to be in the NHL, but here are the ones listed behind him in the minors:  Viro, Sebrango, Barton, Johansson, McIssac. All 21 or younger including Mo at 20. That doesn't even include Wallinder, Berglund, and Tuomisto.  Sure, there is no telling which way they are going to go, especially McIssac with his injuries, but you have to admit, that is a pretty good future. Now throw a top 2 guy in at #6 this draft.

In the G position, if they can get Cossa, that would add to their talent pool of Bednar (who they are VERY high on) and Petruzzelli who seems to be coming into his own.

I feel the future is within reach and in less than 5 years, we'll be right there. That is why RNH at 28, to me, would be the #1 C to go after. What's $8M-$9M amongst friends?

I'd keep an eye on (Yzmerman draft pick) Slater KoekKoek as well. He was drafted 10th overall by Steve in Tampa and he is a UFA LHD out of Edmonton. With Edmonton taking a boop in the playoffs, Holland may be looking to follow his narrative (signing 30+ year old vets) to put his team over the top(?) We know his M.O. KoekKoek and RNH just may not be in the plan for Holland. Considering McDavid and Draisaitl being their #1 and #2 C's, I see RNH leaving anyhow. Again, come on to Detroit to get #1 C playing time. I'm betting Detroit wins again before Edmonton anyhow...

We really only have 3 (Seider included) NHL D signed right now, and who know's where DD ends up, PLUS there's the outside chance Stecher is left unprotected. I am not sure where Newpower will end up, probably GR. We know Hronek, Lindstrom and Cholowski will at least be re-signed. Do they give Staal a 1 year deal? I think KoekKoek would come in and be top 4 for sure here. Considering the sweepstakes for Hamilton will be VERY expensive, Slater might be a great option, and with his familiarity of Yzerman, may fit in the locker room better. Hell I's try to fleece Holland again and offer a trade for both of those guys AND their 1st round pick in 2022!

Edited June 24, 2021 by LeftWinger

[diehardredwingsfan58 165]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Zadina + Cholowski + 1st/2nd

Too much for Reinhart, He's already on record not wanting to play on a rebuilding team. So there's no chance of him signing long term with Detroit.

[marcaractac 3,963]

People wanting 28 year old guys like RNH or Hamilton clearly haven't been paying attention to what Yzerman has been saying. 

[LeftWinger 5,153]

3 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

People wanting 28 year old guys like RNH or Hamilton clearly haven't been paying attention to what Yzerman has been saying. 

I get it, and I understand and I have been paying attention. But if he's ok with signing 27-33 year old D-men for leadership and that small veteran presence, I am just suggesting that RNH at 28 would slot right into that role PLUS be your legit #1C for years to come. He's only 3 years older than Reinhart and Larkin (25 on July 30) so it's not like he's a grey beard. Hamilton I am ok with not pursuing because he will be the marquee D-Man UFA and there are better teams out there with enough cap to give him a huge payday. Namestikov was 27 and Ryan was 33 when signed and they served a purpose. Heck, Yzerman may re-sign Ryan. RNH is elite compared to those two plus he's way younger than Filppula and Neilsen. I am not saying sign RNH or Yzerman is dumb, but IF, and that is a big IF,  RNH was interested and Yzerman was too, bring him in! He's not too old, plus he is better than any other C on our team right now, and just as good as most of the #1 C's in the league. Not including your elite talent like McDavid or MacKinnon. This is not the draft to get a #1 C, we can hold out hope for maybe being a lottery team the next 2 years and scoring a #1 in one of them for that #1 guy.

If they were to add RNH and someone like KoekKoek, this team we be world's better. Especially down the middle. RNH would cost some bucks, but Koekkoek shouldn't cost too much over $1M. This team going forward looks a ton better with RNH in the middle, rather than Helm, Turgeon or Pearson. Besides, one 28 year old C is not too bad to have for a continuing rebuild. Even if they didn't keep Glenny, your C's would be: RNH - 28, Larkin - 25, Veleno - 21, Rasmussen - 22. But I think Veleno and Ras are better than that, that is why I'd re-sign Glenny, slide Larkin to wing (he played pretty darn good there) and move Veleno and Ras up a slot.

[marcaractac 3,963]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I get it, and I understand and I have been paying attention. But if he's ok with signing 27-33 year old D-men for leadership and that small veteran presence, I am just suggesting that RNH at 28 would slot right into that role PLUS be your legit #1C for years to come. He's only 3 years older than Reinhart and Larkin (25 on July 30) so it's not like he's a grey beard. Hamilton I am ok with not pursuing because he will be the marquee D-Man UFA and there are better teams out there with enough cap to give him a huge payday. Namestikov was 27 and Ryan was 33 when signed and they served a purpose. Heck, Yzerman may re-sign Ryan. RNH is elite compared to those two plus he's way younger than Filppula and Neilsen. I am not saying sign RNH or Yzerman is dumb, but IF, and that is a big IF,  RNH was interested and Yzerman was too, bring him in! He's not too old, plus he is better than any other C on our team right now, and just as good as most of the #1 C's in the league. Not including your elite talent like McDavid or MacKinnon. This is not the draft to get a #1 C, we can hold out hope for maybe being a lottery team the next 2 years and scoring a #1 in one of them for that #1 guy.

If they were to add RNH and someone like KoekKoek, this team we be world's better. Especially down the middle. RNH would cost some bucks, but Koekkoek shouldn't cost too much over $1M. This team going forward looks a ton better with RNH in the middle, rather than Helm, Turgeon or Pearson. Besides, one 28 year old C is not too bad to have for a continuing rebuild. Even if they didn't keep Glenny, your C's would be: RNH - 28, Larkin - 25, Veleno - 21, Rasmussen - 22. But I think Veleno and Ras are better than that, that is why I'd re-sign Glenny, slide Larkin to wing (he played pretty darn good there) and move Veleno and Ras up a slot.

tl;dr

Yzerman is not gonna sign 28 year old players to long term deals. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

6 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

>Nikita Nesterov
>Slater Koekkoek
>Nikita Gusev
>Cedric Paquette

I'd keep your eyes on these guys in UFA. All Yzer guys who will be available at low cost.

and low term!

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

12 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Cause that's your hangup is it not? Why would we acquire Reinhart when Larkin is "better"? Forget that we need another top6 center regardless of how good or bad Larkin is...

Both from the same draft class. Both played their first full season in their draft+1 year. Both have played center and wing at times. Both have had good linemates at times, but both have played on horrid teams for most of that time (though Larkin did make the playoffs his first year, whereas Reinhart never has).

Since their start of full seasons career average PPG:

Larkin: 0.6674
Reinhart: 0.6606

The difference is negligible. A difference of a half a pt over a season. They produce at pretty much an identical rate spread over their careers.

Sam Reinhart:

1st full season: 0.54 (BUF finishes 23)
2nd: 0.59 (BUF finishes 26)
3rd: 0.60 (BUF finishes 31)
4th: 0.79 (BUF finishes 27)
5th: 0.72 (BUF finishes 25)
6th: 0.74 (BUF finishes 31)

Dylan Larkin:

1st full season: 0.56 (DET finishes 15th)
2nd: 0.40 (DET finishes 25)
3rd: 0.77 (DET finishes 27)
4th: 0.96 (DET finishes 28)
5th: 0.75 (DET finishes 31)
6th: 0.52 (DET finishes 27)

However it's very clear that Reinhart is a model of scoring consistency, whereas Larkin's peaks are very high and valleys very low.

If we remove both players best seasons (Larkin's statistical outlier) their careers look like this:

Larkin: 0.6000
Reinhart: 0.6380

A difference of 3.1 pts over a season in advantage of Reinhart.

Remove both players worst seasons (only fair):

Larkin: 0.7120
Reinhart: 0.6880

A difference of 1.9 pts over a season in favor of Larkin.

Remove both players best and worst seasons and you get this:

Larkin: 0.6500
Reinhart: 0.6625

A difference of 1 pt over a season in favor of Reinhart.

IDK what this proves beyond my own level of autism

But if you find Larkin's scoring acceptable, you should absolutely love Reinharts. They produce at the exact same rate, albeit Reinhart is more consistent and he's not trending into the ground. That said, do not be confused because I absolutely do not think they are identical players. Larkin is MUCH better on defense, and Reinhart has much better playmaking and vision on the O side IMO.

Larkin has nearly 300 more shots on net over their careers than Reinhart has, but Reinhart sports a 4.5% higher shooting percentage. I think that speaks to how much more of a calculated offensive player Reinhart is over Larkin. Don't believe just watch them play. I'd take Reinhart's offense over Larkin's anyday, and in turn I'd take Larkin's defense of Reinhart's.

Acquiring Reinhart would mean playing him in offensive situations with guys like Vrana over Larkin. Allowing Larkin to play more even minutes and PK. If that makes him 1st or 2nd C I don't really care.

 

You're cherry picking stats again.

I can do it too. Up until last season, Larkin's avg was 0.68 and Reinhart's was 0.64. You can keep pointing to last season's numbers if you want to, but that only proves Reinhart was the better player last season, nothing more. Once again, Larkin has been the better player over their respective careers.

And Larkin has played far more center than Reinhart. Up until last season, where Reinhart filled in at center because Eichel was injured, he has played mostly RW on Eichel's line. With the exception of his first 2 seasons in the NHL, where he played wing about 75% of the time,  Larkin has mostly played center. And despite playing a more defensively responsible position, Larkin has still managed to beat Reinhart at P/GP.

My point has been from the beginning that you cant call Reinhart a 1C if Larkin is a 2C based on points per games played, which is the stat that you claimed made Larkin a 2C.

If you wanted to acquire Reinhart for the purpose of RW on Larkin's line or as a 2C, that would be a more reasonable take.

[Dabura 12,232]

On 6/23/2021 at 4:28 PM, BarkBurgerman said:

I'd much rather be sitting on a quality young Dman at #6 overall than a winger who appears to have the same toolbox as Tomas Tatar. Zadina is going to be 22 this fall, and I wouldn't say he's much farther ahead in development than Tatar was at the same age. I vaguely remember Tatar raising a stink around 20/21 years old that he was being held back, and perhaps if he hadn't been his defense would have already been at Zadina's level come 22 years old...

I admittedly value a young Dman a lot more than I do a young winger. It's nice that Zadina is honing his defense, but I kinda sorta expect and need a winger to produce points. He isn't producing much more than some of these Dmen are. And that's the job of a high end winger. You look at what Quinn Hughes, Ty Smith, and K'Andre Miller are doing - eating big minutes on D at a young age - and I can't help but think WTF especially when Hughes seemed to be our boy that draft. Makar is the same style Dman, and absolutely no one complains about his style of play. Boqvist, Bouchard, Dobson, and Sandin have been sheltered, but their stints have been quality.

To be clear, I'm not hardcore disagreeing with you. I just think the buyer's remorse re: Zadina is a little overblown. If you put Quinn Hughes on the past two Wings teams, we're probably not super-crazy about him here in mid-2021. I can hear it in my head: "He's small and soft and he can't play defense and he isn't scoring any more than Hronek is. He's a forward masquerading as a defenseman." And if Zadina's tearing it up with the Habs right now (which probably would be the case, because this Habs team exists to defy conventional wisdom), we're all saying, "Well, that's what a top 3 pick gets you."

Point being: The Wings are a very bad team and pretty much all these players we're wishing we'd taken with that 6OA pick are playing for better teams, and this makes it tough to get a really solid read on how our guy stacks up against the other guys at this point in time. It's that philosophical question: Does Pavel Datsyuk become Pavel Datsyuk if he spends his career with, say, the Islanders?

I get where you're coming from, though. Like I said, I'm not hardcore disagreeing with you. If we're taking a winger at 6OA when we have a clear organizational need for very good defensemen and there's a crop of very good defenseman available at 6OA (Hughes, Boqvist, Bouchard, Dobson, Smith), I don't want to be saying, "Maybe he's a slightly lesser Tatar and maybe that's perfectly fine," at the end of his D+3 season. I want to be saying, "Dude is money. Thank God we picked him."

We don't feel that way right now. We're not thanking God we picked Zadina. But I'm not convinced we'd be much happier with any of the alternatives. Because I'm not convinced those players are (going to be) significantly better than Zadina.

I wanna see how Zadina does in a full season on a team that, at bare minimum, isn't ravaged by injuries.

[mackel 768]

10 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Is that maybe too much to give up? Considering all the stats and comparison's of reinhart and Larkin, Zadina's potential and consistent rise in points and up the chain of forwards, that just might be too much. Plus Reinhart would have to be protected (unless the deal is made after the expansion draft.) so that would box out another forward. Would Sam really be good enough to be the #1 C here? I mean, is he THAT much better than Larkin or would it be more like a 2A and 2B combo? Even if Larkin or Reinhart played wing, would they still (on most NHL teams) be a legit top 3 or just on Detroit? If I'm giving up a 6th OA plus Zadina (at this point Cholo is just a throw in) I am really hoping to get a real #1 C...but then again, that may cost a ton more.

Honestly, I would do that trade for Eichel, Zadina + Cholowski + 6th OA AND a 2nd. Then again, I'd much rather target a top 2 D-Man with the 6th OA. If Werenski were available, now we'd be talking. I am not so sure he's available though with all the talk of Jones being dealt.

or someone who is bedard than what we have now!

That's never getting you Eichel... Cholo has virtually no value, Zadina is a 3rd line winger, the picks aren't valuable enough for a franchise player.

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

To be clear, I'm not hardcore disagreeing with you. I just think the buyer's remorse re: Zadina is a little overblown. If you put Quinn Hughes on the past two Wings teams, we're probably not super-crazy about him here in mid-2021. I can hear it in my head: "He's small and soft and he can't play defense and he isn't scoring any more than Hronek is. He's a forward masquerading as a defenseman." And if Zadina's tearing it up with the Habs right now (which probably would be the case, because this Habs team exists to defy conventional wisdom), we're all saying, "Well, that's what a top 3 pick gets you."

Point being: The Wings are a very bad team and pretty much all these players we're wishing we'd taken with that 6OA pick are playing for better teams, and this makes it tough to get a really solid read on how our guy stacks up against the other guys at this point in time. It's that philosophical question: Does Pavel Datsyuk become Pavel Datsyuk if he spends his career with, say, the Islanders?

I get where you're coming from, though. Like I said, I'm not hardcore disagreeing with you. If we're taking a winger at 6OA when we have a clear organizational need for very good defensemen and there's a crop of very good defenseman available at 6OA (Hughes, Boqvist, Bouchard, Dobson, Smith), I don't want to be saying, "Maybe he's a slightly lesser Tatar and maybe that's perfectly fine," at the end of his D+3 season. I want to be saying, "Dude is money. Thank God we picked him."

We don't feel that way right now. We're not thanking God we picked Zadina. But I'm not convinced we'd be much happier with any of the alternatives. Because I'm not convinced those players are (going to be) significantly better than Zadina.

I wanna see how Zadina does in a full season on a team that, at bare minimum, isn't ravaged by injuries.

Zadina = Bust

[LeftWinger 5,153]

A great off season would be:

Draft Hughes and Cossa

Buy out Nielsen (just so Blashill can't put him in the lineup, waived or not)

Sign RNH and Koekoek ( i know your views of a 28 year old RNH, but I still maintain he'd be the best player on this team if we landed him.)

re-sign Bernier (unless he splits) then lets give Mrazek another shot. Re-sign Glenny and Ryan. Of course qualify our RFA's and get them re-signed. (we already know Djoss and Brome are headed over to Europe.)

Depending on the D, maybe give Staal another year, but he may be looking to go to a contender before he retires.

[Dabura 12,232]

20 hours ago, mackel said:

Zadina = Bust

Your mom = Busty

[Dabura 12,232]

On 6/24/2021 at 11:09 AM, marcaractac said:

tl;dr

Yzerman is not gonna sign 28 year old players to long term deals. 

This. It's not happening. Yzerman himself has said as much.

It only makes sense if Yzerman feels the add would allow us to declare the rebuild finished and start operating like a playoff team next season. For example: sign Hamilton, trade Hronek (+ winger) for a 2C.

But, again, that's not happening.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Protect Larkin, Vrana, Bertuzzi, Fabbri, Rasmussen, Erne, Smith, Hronek, Stecher, Cholowski, Greiss in the Expansion Draft.

Seattle Takes Namestnikov.

Buyout Nielsen.

Re-sign RFA's (Vrana, Bertuzzi, Rasmussen, Svechnikov, Erne, Smith, Pearson, Hronek, Cholowski, Lindstrom).

Re-sign UFA's (Glendening, Gagner, Hirose, Turgeon, Criscuolo, Elson, Hicketts, McIlrath, Bernier, Pickard).

Let everyone else walk.

Sign a stop-gap top 4 left-handed defenseman (Alec Martinez / Jamie Oleksiak).

Trade for a short-term bad contract / salary dump (James Neal / Loui Eriksson).

Vrana - Larkin - Zadina
Bertuzzi - Veleno - Fabbri
Neal - Rasmussen - Gagner
Erne - Glendening - Smith
Panik / Svechnikov

Martinez - Seider
Cholowski - Hronek
DeKeyser - Stecher
Lindstrom

Bernier
Greiss

This is still a really bad team, by design. Yzerman will likely be aiming for another bottom 5 finish in 2022, and start turning the corner the following season as we continue to get younger / more skilled. Veleno, Raymond, Berggren, McIsaac, Johansson, 2021 1st round pick, potentially 2022 1st round pick will be taking the spots of Filppula, Helm, Ryan, Gagner, Panik, Staal, DeKeyser over the next couple seasons. We could also potentially see another big trade involving one or two of Vrana, Bertuzzi, Fabbri, Hronek.

Either way, it should be fun to see how Yzerman utilizes the mass amount of cap space and draft capital over the next couple seasons...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

54 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Protect Larkin, Vrana, Bertuzzi, Fabbri, Rasmussen, Erne, Smith, Hronek, Stecher, Cholowski, Greiss in the Expansion Draft.

Seattle Takes Namestnikov.

Buyout Nielsen.

Re-sign RFA's (Vrana, Bertuzzi, Rasmussen, Svechnikov, Erne, Smith, Pearson, Hronek, Cholowski, Lindstrom).

Re-sign UFA's (Glendening, Gagner, Hirose, Turgeon, Criscuolo, Elson, Hicketts, McIlrath, Bernier, Pickard).

Let everyone else walk.

Sign a stop-gap top 4 left-handed defenseman (Alec Martinez / Jamie Oleksiak).

Trade for a short-term bad contract / salary dump (James Neal / Loui Eriksson).

Vrana - Larkin - Zadina
Bertuzzi - Veleno - Fabbri
Neal - Rasmussen - Gagner
Erne - Glendening - Smith
Panik / Svechnikov

Martinez - Seider
Cholowski - Hronek
DeKeyser - Stecher
Lindstrom

Bernier
Greiss

This is still a really bad team, by design. Yzerman will likely be aiming for another bottom 5 finish in 2022, and start turning the corner the following season as we continue to get younger / more skilled. Veleno, Raymond, Berggren, McIsaac, Johansson, 2021 1st round pick, potentially 2022 1st round pick will be taking the spots of Filppula, Helm, Ryan, Gagner, Panik, Staal, DeKeyser over the next couple seasons. We could also potentially see another big trade involving one or two of Vrana, Bertuzzi, Fabbri, Hronek.

Either way, it should be fun to see how Yzerman utilizes the mass amount of cap space and draft capital over the next couple seasons...

Good to have you back man 

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Good to have you back man 

C'mon man, you don't still think Rasmussen is / will be better than Veleno, do you?... 

[marcaractac 3,963]

There is no way Yzerman allows the team to go into next season with Veleno as 2C. He will absolutely sign a veteran middle six center on a shirt deal or trade for one with 2-3 years remaining. Someone like Tyler Johnson. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

35 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

There is no way Yzerman allows the team to go into next season with Veleno as 2C. He will absolutely sign a veteran middle six center on a shirt deal or trade for one with 2-3 years remaining. Someone like Tyler Johnson. 

I'd be all for Johnson being the bad contract / cap dump that Yzerman takes on...

Vrana - Larkin - Zadina
Bertuzzi - Johnson - Fabbri
Rasmussen - Veleno - Gagner
Erne - Glendening - Smith
Panik / Svechnikov

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd be all for Johnson being the bad contract / cap dump that Yzerman takes on...

Vrana - Larkin - Zadina
Bertuzzi - Johnson - Fabbri
Rasmussen - Veleno - Gagner
Erne - Glendening - Smith
Panik / Svechnikov

Bad contract for Tampa as they have to get rid of money. Would be a lovely contract for Detroit, having a capable, cup winning center in the lineup.