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The 91 of Ryans

New New Prospects Thread

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58 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2022/04/michael-rasmussen-driving-the-bus-right-now-for-red-wings.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=redwings_sf

Larkin and Blash have some nice things to say about Ras. Basically that he's becoming a key player. Matches up against the toughest opponents. Wins board battles. Finally finding his confidence scoring. 

Guy turns 23 in a few days. Still needs to add about 20-30 lbs of muscle. But I think he's worth holding on to. Could still be a Hanzal. 

12 G, 11 A, - 25 in 69 games

vs

8G, 6A, -16 in 69 games

 

Rasdog took over 4C line duties like a boss this year.  He's better than what we had, and he's only going to get better.    Versitile player with lots of upside if he works hard in the offseason, as you mentioned.

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

12 G, 11 A, - 25 in 69 games

vs

8G, 6A, -16 in 69 games

 

Rasdog took over 4C line duties like a boss this year.  He's better than what we had, and he's only going to get better.    Versitile player with lots of upside if he works hard in the offseason, as you mentioned.

He's playing the game the right way. Expierence and milk will get him to the next level. Tall guys usually develop slower, which is why Soderblom is exciting with those hands he already has.

I'm happy to be patient with Ras. He needs to move in with Veleno and get on Joe's workout routine. 

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Denver eliminated the star studed Wolverine team in the NCAA tournament. Buium, Mazur, and Tuomisto headed to the NCAA title game. Pretty impressive. Michigan is now gonna lose all their studs except Hughes to the NHL next year. Wonder if Yzerman will consider signing Mazur and Buium soon. 

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15 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

Denver eliminated the star studed Wolverine team in the NCAA tournament. Buium, Mazur, and Tuomisto headed to the NCAA title game. Pretty impressive. Michigan is now gonna lose all their studs except Hughes to the NHL next year. Wonder if Yzerman will consider signing Mazur and Buium soon. 

For sure.  They are our guys.

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I'm a little suspicious that the Andreasson signing hasn't been officially announced yet. Only being talked about in Sweden. Reminds me of when Sweden reported we signed Malte Stromwall... only for it to never happen.

That said, from the highlights I've seen this kid is VERY fast. I guess previously he was also a perimeter style playmaker like Berggren. But this year he started playing on a line with Linus Omark. Omark is a big time playmaker who basically scores mostly through assists. So Andreasson changed his style and started being the guy attacking the net for Omark. Obviously this change has worked out really well for him. 

I think this type of adaptability is a really good sign. Here's a guy who's going to adjust quickly to the NHL and to the role we put him in. Berggren and Omark are also super similar style wise. I expect Andreasson + Berggren will be a good fit together. Slap big ass Soderblom on a line with them for extra fun. 

Soderblom - Berg/Andre - Berg/Andre

 

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8 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

I'm a little suspicious that the Andreasson signing hasn't been officially announced yet. Only being talked about in Sweden. Reminds me of when Sweden reported we signed Malte Stromwall... only for it to never happen.

That said, from the highlights I've seen this kid is VERY fast. I guess previously he was also a perimeter style playmaker like Berggren. But this year he started playing on a line with Linus Omark. Omark is a big time playmaker who basically scores mostly through assists. So Andreasson changed his style and started being the guy attacking the net for Omark. Obviously this change has worked out really well for him. 

I think this type of adaptability is a really good sign. Here's a guy who's going to adjust quickly to the NHL and to the role we put him in. Berggren and Omark are also super similar style wise. I expect Andreasson + Berggren will be a good fit together. Slap big ass Soderblom on a line with them for extra fun. 

Soderblom - Berg/Andre - Berg/Andre

 

We have 63 Swedish prospects

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9 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

12 G, 11 A, - 25 in 69 games

vs

8G, 6A, -16 in 69 games

154gp-24g-34a-58pts - 6oa pick - bust

171gp-23g-30a-53pts - 9oa pick - HYPE! (7mos older)

5 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

We have 63 Swedish prospects

Still not enough. Trade Zadina to TOR for Liljegren and Rasmusen to ANA for Lundestrom.

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1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

Ya I got that.

That was for the ppl pumping Big Ras and s***ting on Lil Z.

When Z learns to take a face off, play the PK, win a board battle, grow 6 inches, get off the perimeter, and not turnover the puck over with r-slurred shot choices every play be sure to let us know.

 

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18 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

When Z learns to take a face off, play the PK, win a board battle, grow 6 inches, get off the perimeter, and not turnover the puck over with r-slurred shot choices every play be sure to let us know.

 

blueadams, Im going to say it again - do you really feel like Zadina is outside of our top 12 forwards right now?  No you dont.  Then just wait until the other guys push him out or he's traded.  yah?

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I love that Rasmussen is producing, its got to be great for his confidence. As you'll all recall, I predicted big things for him this year and that really hasn't happened so it's good to feel like I wasn't 100% in the weeds. But I'd like to see a few things vis-a-vis the big fella.

First, the team (i.e. coach) needs to figure out a role for him that makes sense. They've previously said they want him to be a Jordan Staal-esque 3C, which he's never ever been, and he's put in some serious work trying to make that happen...to mixed results. His defense is actually pretty good, but his offense hasn't really shone through in that role the way a Staal's does. That's probably because Ras needs to be near the net to score, and in Blash's system the center plays the F3 position high (almost like a 3rd defenseman) so something's gotta give (and it's his scoring). If they intend to keep him in that role, then it's got to be as a 4C because he's just never going to score enough as a center (in that system) to be a 3C. The other option, obviously, is to make him a winger where he'll score more but you'll lose him as matchup center. Essentially, he can be Tom Wilson or he can be Martin Hanzal but not both.

The 2nd thing the team needs regarding Ras is for him to squat about 600lbs. His lower body is crazy weak for his size and it limits his ability to really wear down the opposition (an obvious appeal for a 6'6 player). Anybody remember when he absolutely buried Hampus Lindholm on the forecheck the other day in Boston and then Lindholm left the game later with a lower body injury? Anybody think those things are unrelated? Me neither. Ras needs to do this every single game.

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12 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

When Z learns to take a face off, play the PK, win a board battle, grow 6 inches, get off the perimeter, and not turnover the puck over with r-slurred shot choices every play be sure to let us know.

The point wasnt that Zadina is good it was that if Zadina sucks so does Rasmusen.

Both are bottom6 on a contender and dont get to excited about Ras subpar fo%. Hes better suited on the wing.

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46 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

When Z learns to take a face off, play the PK, win a board battle, grow 6 inches, get off the perimeter, and not turnover the puck over with r-slurred shot choices every play be sure to let us know.

 

And show an ounce of improvement over almost and entire season worth of hockey

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11 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

The point wasnt that Zadina is good it was that if Zadina sucks so does Rasmusen.

Both are bottom6 on a contender and dont get to excited about Ras subpar fo%. Hes better suited on the wing.

Not really. Temmu Pulkkinen and Tomas Jurco scored at about the same rate as Luke Glendening during their time here, and they obviously both never came anywhere near approaching disney.com's value to the team. Cause it's not all about scoring stats, ya know?

Ras actually has a role on this team. He actually contributes to the game away from the puck. If he continues playing the game the right way, like he has been, and continues adding weight to his frame, he'll at the very least have a role here as shutdown 3C or checking line wing.

I agree that I'd rather see him play more wing, that's the way he's going to end up generating the most offense for us. I just think the Wings have been hard-pressed for centers and would desperately like that peg to fit into that center hole. Hopefully Veleno or another center will permanently move him to wing soon.

Zadina on the other hand is like Yakupov. Not good enough to contribute in a top6 role, and doesn't have any value in a bottom 6 role. If Zadina played like Ras or Veleno does, I'd have a lot less negativity about him. But he doesn't. He's consistently does frustrating things and refuses to correct them, learn from them, grow from them. He not only doesn't win board battles, he has no strategy to approaching a scrum. He'll consistently choose the wrong side of the scrum to attack from. Offensive side when he should be taking the defensive side. Defensive side when he should be taking the deep attacking side. He'll take the long route to chase a puck... like skating behind the net to get to the far corner instead of crossing the slot in the O-zone. He's afraid of the dirty areas. He'll hustle back on D... but that isn't much good when he has defensive IQ and anticipation of Givani Smith. This player has been up and down the lineup but has gotten consistent time in the top6 and on the power play. Yet Gagner, Erne, and Ras each have double the amount of primary assists than he has. He's a turnover machine in the O-zone just from his shooting. Constantly right into the defender, right into the goalies chest, or missing the net completely. He has the lowest shooting percentage on the team outside of Adam Erne. His shot choice is alarmingly bad. Mikael Samuelsson level bad.

I'd like to see Veleno get some scoring confidence going, but other than that I have no real complaints about his game. I'd like to see Rasmussen get a lot stronger and add some more scoring to his game, but other than that I have no real complaints. With Zadina I have long list of problems, with or without the puck, in every zone. Veleno and Ras are like Tatar and Nyquist to me. They're playing the right way and should develop in time. Zadina is like Cholowski... there's just so much wrong there I don't know that he can ever fix it all. And so far he's made very little progress in fixing them over the past 3 season.

 

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

blueadams, Im going to say it again - do you really feel like Zadina is outside of our top 12 forwards right now?  No you dont.  Then just wait until the other guys push him out or he's traded.  yah?

  1. Larkin
  2. Bertuzzi
  3. Vrana
  4. Raymond
  5. Fabbri
  6. Sundqvist
  7. Suter
  8. Rasmussen
  9. Gagner
  10. Veleno
  11. Zadina
  12. Stephens
  13. Erne
  14. Smith

You're right, he makes my top 12 lol

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I'm not really sure that having 12 better forwards is the correct way to evaluate Zadina (or anyone else for that matter). He's not competing with Dylan Larkin for the 1C spot, nor with Mitchell Stephens for the 4C spot. In fact, most people don't even want him competing with guys for a 4th line winger spot (considering ppl lost their minds when Blash had him on the 4th line). So basically, are there six better wingers on the team? Bert, Vrana, Raymond, and Fabbri are all notably better. That leaves two. So he needs to be better than all but one of Gagner, Sundqvist, Erne, Smith and whichever of Veleno, Stephens, or Rasmussen gets moved to the wing when everyone is healthy. Safe to say he can probably do that. But with guys like Berggren and Sodorblom knocking on the door it gets really tricky. Doubly so if they add people via FA (think Namestnikov-type guys here). At that point it's not so clear cut. It's not obvious that he'd be better than all but one of Rasmussen, Berggren, Sodorblom, and Namestnikov for instance. AND he has basically ZERO special teams value, which genuinely kills his value to the team. Reminds me a lot of Owen Tippett in that way, and look how tradeable that guy very quickly became. I'd say Zadina's days in Detroit have come to an end.

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9 hours ago, bIueadams said:
  1. Larkin
  2. Bertuzzi
  3. Vrana
  4. Raymond
  5. Fabbri
  6. Sundqvist
  7. Suter
  8. Rasmussen
  9. Gagner
  10. Veleno
  11. Zadina
  12. Stephens
  13. Erne
  14. Smith

You're right, he makes my top 12 lol

exactly.  Add Berggren, Soderblom, and Pick #8 and youre there.  you can wait 10 more games, yah?

Fabbri isnt as good as you think he is, either.  just throwing that out there.

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11 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

exactly.  Add Berggren, Soderblom, and Pick #8 and youre there.  you can wait 10 more games, yah?

Fabbri isnt as good as you think he is, either.  just throwing that out there.

I think there's a big drop off from Raymond to Fabbri. But then also from Fabbri to Sundqvist.

1-4 are legit top 6 forwards. Fabbri is an acceptable 2nd line forward, but would be a good 3rd liner on a deep team. 6-14 are bottom 6ers right now. 

I'd like to trade Zadina in the off-season for a defender. 

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13 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

I think there's a big drop off from Raymond to Fabbri. But then also from Fabbri to Sundqvist.

1-4 are legit top 6 forwards. Fabbri is an acceptable 2nd line forward, but would be a good 3rd liner on a deep team. 6-14 are bottom 6ers right now. 

I'd like to trade Zadina in the off-season for a defender. 

Vrana, Larkin, and Raymond are legit top 6 fws.

Bertuzzi, Veleno, and Zadina (as much as you hate it/disagree) are legit top 9 fws.

Ras, Sundqvist, and Berggren are legit top 12 fws.

Suter is weak.  Fabbri is weak.  Gagner Erne, Stephens, and Smith are hanging by a thread.

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11 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

The point wasnt that Zadina is good it was that if Zadina sucks so does Rasmusen.

Both are bottom6 on a contender and dont get to excited about Ras subpar fo%. Hes better suited on the wing.

No, Ras is a big body that can crash the net, his size allows him to be more physical (be we should see even more), he's best off the wing but can play center.

Now to the draft portion of this situation...

9OA which was an acknowledged reach at the time

6OA a player that was touted/hyped as a top 3 guy who we were lucky to get.  For that reason more is expected.

Ras is a more useful player because he can do a lot on the ice... Zadina's best attribute is his shot, and that's just sad.

36 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Vrana, Larkin, and Raymond are legit top 6 fws.

Bertuzzi, Veleno, and Zadina (as much as you hate it/disagree) are legit top 9 fws.

Ras, Sundqvist, and Berggren are legit top 12 fws.

Suter is weak.  Fabbri is weak.  Gagner Erne, Stephens, and Smith are hanging by a thread.

Zadina is a bust.  That is all.  Good night.  #factsoflife

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35 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Vrana, Larkin, and Raymond are legit top 6 fws.

Bertuzzi, Veleno, and Zadina (as much as you hate it/disagree) are legit top 9 fws.

Ras, Sundqvist, and Berggren are legit top 12 fws.

Suter is weak.  Fabbri is weak.  Gagner Erne, Stephens, and Smith are hanging by a thread.

IMO,

Top 6: Larkin, Vrana, Raymond, Bertuzzi
Middle 6: Fabbri
3rd line: Sundqvist, Suter
4th line: Everyone else

Rasmussen and Veleno will probably at least get to middle 6 one day. The most we can hope for from Zadina is being a 3rd line scorer one day maybe.

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9 hours ago, mackel said:

No, Ras is a big body that can crash the net, his size allows him to be more physical (be we should see even more), he's best off the wing but can play center.

Now to the draft portion of this situation...

9OA which was an acknowledged reach at the time

6OA a player that was touted/hyped as a top 3 guy who we were lucky to get.  For that reason more is expected.

Ras is a more useful player because he can do a lot on the ice... Zadina's best attribute is his shot, and that's just sad.

Zadina is a bust.  That is all.  Good night.  #factsoflife

Its bad enough that your weighing Zadinas value to his draft position even worse that your weighing his value to where the likes of Cory Wrongman had him ranked predraft.

Zadina is a 3rd line winger with still room to grow into 2nd line winger. Hes 22yo ffs.

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On 4/8/2022 at 7:23 AM, kipwinger said:

I love that Rasmussen is producing, its got to be great for his confidence. As you'll all recall, I predicted big things for him this year and that really hasn't happened so it's good to feel like I wasn't 100% in the weeds. But I'd like to see a few things vis-a-vis the big fella.

First, the team (i.e. coach) needs to figure out a role for him that makes sense. They've previously said they want him to be a Jordan Staal-esque 3C, which he's never ever been, and he's put in some serious work trying to make that happen...to mixed results. His defense is actually pretty good, but his offense hasn't really shone through in that role the way a Staal's does. That's probably because Ras needs to be near the net to score, and in Blash's system the center plays the F3 position high (almost like a 3rd defenseman) so something's gotta give (and it's his scoring). If they intend to keep him in that role, then it's got to be as a 4C because he's just never going to score enough as a center (in that system) to be a 3C. The other option, obviously, is to make him a winger where he'll score more but you'll lose him as matchup center. Essentially, he can be Tom Wilson or he can be Martin Hanzal but not both.

The 2nd thing the team needs regarding Ras is for him to squat about 600lbs. His lower body is crazy weak for his size and it limits his ability to really wear down the opposition (an obvious appeal for a 6'6 player). Anybody remember when he absolutely buried Hampus Lindholm on the forecheck the other day in Boston and then Lindholm left the game later with a lower body injury? Anybody think those things are unrelated? Me neither. Ras needs to do this every single game.

I like your analysis here.  One thing I love about Ras is that he took on the task of learning bottom 6 duties when asked.  That has made him a valueable piece now to the team.  If you have a guy that CAN play anywhere but 1C in the lineup, but plays 4C and pk when all are healthy because he is reliable in the dot and defensively, thats an awesome guy to have.  Like you said, he just needs to add that 15 lbs of muscle to his lower body to gain leverage on the league.  5 lbs a year for the next 3 years, and he could be the best 4C in the league hands down.

5 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Its bad enough that your weighing Zadinas value to his draft position even worse that your weighing his value to where the likes of Cory Wrongman had him ranked predraft.

Zadina is a 3rd line winger with still room to grow into 2nd line winger. Hes 22yo ffs.

Yup.  Like Ras, Zadina is honing bottom 6 skills right now.  He's been on every line this year tho, so that tells you he has skills.  I feel like Zadina just needs some maturity and 10 lbs of upper body muscle.  He's 22, so give him a few years to get there.Nyquist, Tatar, and Bertuzzi had not played a single NHL game at this point in their careers!

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