2022 TDL

[kipwinger 8,772]

11 hours ago, mackel said:

BTW How's Zadina done the last few weeks while LGW was down?   #bustycoldzadina

The amount of ink that Zadina gets is CRAZY. Red Wings media trip over themselves to make excuses for the guy. The most recent one is that he needs better  linemates to really help him flourish. Fabbri and Suter apparently aren't good enough to drag Zadina around the ice but ARE good enough to outperform him on a nightly basis. "Give him Vrana" they say, as if Zadina's playmaking is any better than his shooting at this point.

[marcaractac 3,963]

Zadina for Laffreniere. Do it. Perhaps the Wings could develop the kid properly. At worst he'd just be another Zadina. 

[AtlantaHotWings 1,135]

I have officially stopped worrying about him. Send him to another team and let him reboot there. Holland picked him maybe he will take him? 

[kipwinger 8,772]

In the same day that Canadian hockey media is speculating about a Zadina trade, Detroit hockey media publish a series of articles on why Veleno sucks and should be sent back to GR. I think the writing's on the wall for these two puds.

That or "they're still young".

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 pts in 26 games is not good.

[bIueadams 776]

6 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

In the same day that Canadian hockey media is speculating about a Zadina trade, Detroit hockey media publish a series of articles on why Veleno sucks and should be sent back to GR. I think the writing's on the wall for these two puds.

That or "they're still young".

I hope we've buried the excuse "He's too young" at this point.

We watched KR march up and down this board beating the Smith and Jurco drum under the guise "They're still young". Folks called @mackel and I trolls for saying Zadina sucks because "He's still young". And on the flipside, the Seider pick was doubted at the time even though you could watch his youth play and see that he was destined to be a phenom.

The point being = you can evaluate talent at any age. Youth =/= potential. Play = potential.

I was happy as anyone when we drafted Zadina. His play in the Q was great. But after watching him in the AHL my attitudes changed. I think it's ridiculous that we can supposedly excuse bad play in the AHL and NHL because "He young". It's honestly r-slurred.

 

[bIueadams 776]

3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

4 pts in 26 games is not good.

I know +/- is flawed. but at the moment it's perfectly reflecting who on this team sucks and who's getting the job done IMO.

Bertuzzi +14
Zadina -17

[redw1ngs 149]

Im not sure if Zadina will ever live up to the draft day hype but removing the 6oa tag am I the only one that thinks hes been decent? Far from great but good enough to fill a mid6 role imo. If he were a 3rd round pick would anyone be s***ting on him? Probly not.

I remember alot of fans bashing Larkin the same way there bashing Zadina now. Not saying Z will ever have the impact that Larks has but I still say its too early to give up on the kid. Just my 2cents but what do I know.

[ely s 458]

Almost a month later the Wings are still an above .500 team.

In the moment I would only try to move Leddy if he get´s a decent return (minimum 3rd round pick). The rest of the team is playing well or not giving anything in return. Namestnikov is our swiss army knife,loves being a Red Wing and is useful everywhere in the lineup. I would like to see him stay for another couple seasons. Stecher is a good player that should be kept if the offer is lower than a high 4th.

In general I would say that the team played well enough to get a chance to show what they are capable of in a full season. I think having an above .500 record at seasons end is worth more for the development than the the "tanking" we could do. Having a few extra low round picks is not really what we need.

[Akakabuto 1,863]

Adam Erne should have been traded last TDL as a rental. Had a great season, almost 0,5ppg.

Red Wings definitely have taken another step this season in their rebuild thanks to Raymond, Ned and Seider coming in and Larkin going beast mode.

Going into this season Yzerman probably planned on acquiring as many picks as he could at TD from role players and I hope he hasn’t changed his mind. Namestnikov, Erne, Staal etc should all be available imho. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

13 hours ago, ely s said:

Almost a month later the Wings are still an above .500 team.

In the moment I would only try to move Leddy if he get´s a decent return (minimum 3rd round pick). The rest of the team is playing well or not giving anything in return. Namestnikov is our swiss army knife,loves being a Red Wing and is useful everywhere in the lineup. I would like to see him stay for another couple seasons. Stecher is a good player that should be kept if the offer is lower than a high 4th.

In general I would say that the team played well enough to get a chance to show what they are capable of in a full season. I think having an above .500 record at seasons end is worth more for the development than the the "tanking" we could do. Having a few extra low round picks is not really what we need.

Seider, Hronek, and Lindstrom make Stecher the odd man out. If he isn't traded, they shouldn't re-sign him.

 

9 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Adam Erne should have been traded last TDL as a rental. Had a great season, almost 0,5ppg.

Red Wings definitely have taken another step this season in their rebuild thanks to Raymond, Ned and Seider coming in and Larkin going beast mode.

Going into this season Yzerman probably planned on acquiring as many picks as he could at TD from role players and I hope he hasn’t changed his mind. Namestnikov, Erne, Staal etc should all be available imho. 

Erne sucks now. Not worth keeping. Leddy, Staal, and Stecher should all be available. Namestnikov is a guy I would like to have back.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Akakabuto 1,863]

22 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Erne sucks now. Not worth keeping.

That was my point. Instead of trading him Yzerman gave him a 2-year contract. Don't make the same mistake again. With the coming influx of young talent these guys are just gonna keep sliding further down the line-up if they stay.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Akakabuto

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

5 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

That was my point. Instead of trading him Yzerman gave him a 2-year contract. Don't make the same mistake again. With the incoming influx of young talent these guys are just gonna keep sliding further down the line-up if they stay.

Yah,

Erne doesn't make sense for next year.

Vrana-Larkin-Raymond

Bertuzzi-Suter-Forsberg

Zadina-Veleno-Fabri

Berggren-Rasmussen-Smith

 

Seider - Sebrango

Hronek - McIsaac

Lindstrom - Edvinsson

 

Ned

Cossa

 

3 min wage back ups.

 

 

 

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 hour ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Yah,

Erne doesn't make sense for next year.

Vrana-Larkin-Raymond

Bertuzzi-Suter-Forsberg

Zadina-Veleno-Fabri

Berggren-Rasmussen-Smith

 

Seider - Sebrango

Hronek - McIsaac

Lindstrom - Edvinsson

 

Ned

Cossa

 

3 min wage back ups.

 

 

 

Sebrango and Cossa will not make the team next season.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

8 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

That was my point. Instead of trading him Yzerman gave him a 2-year contract. Don't make the same mistake again. With the incoming influx of young talent these guys are just gonna keep sliding further down the line-up if they stay.

Wasn't a bad decision at the time, IMO. Erne had had a pretty good year. Looked like he had developed into an above average 3rd liner. A lot of question marks at the time.  Fabbri and Bert futures with the team were not certain. SY had no way of knowing that Raymond was going to jump to the NHL and play that well. Berggren wasnt tearing up the AHL yet. And the jury was still out on Zadina and Veleno.

Unfortunately, Erne has regressed back into a spare part 4th liner, with little trade value and a year left on his deal.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Yah,

Erne doesn't make sense for next year.

Vrana-Larkin-Raymond

Bertuzzi-Suter-Forsberg

Zadina-Veleno-Fabri

Berggren-Rasmussen-Smith

 

Seider - Sebrango

Hronek - McIsaac

Lindstrom - Edvinsson

 

Ned

Cossa

 

3 min wage back ups.

 

 

 

Cossa was expected to be a long term project. That's one of the reasons SY was fine with drafting him so soon after trading for Ned. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[bIueadams 776]

On 2/21/2022 at 5:05 PM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Seider, Hronek, and Lindstrom make Stecher the odd man out. If he isn't traded, they shouldn't re-sign him.

 

Erne sucks now. Not worth keeping. Leddy, Staal, and Stecher should all be available. Namestnikov is a guy I would like to have back.

I've been back n forth all year on Names - but I've made up my mind. Absolutely trade.

He's 29 and a career 35-40 pt player who PKs. Totally replaceable ancillary player. He's having an up year right now fersure, but that's exactly why you should trade him. He's at his most valuable at the end of his contract and twenties. Perfect scenario for us. Most years all you can get is a 4th for a player like him. Last year we may not have even been able to get a 5th. But now I think we might even be able to squeeze out a 3rd.... logic says trade trade trade.

The counter - the decision to keep him - I think is = He's a Detroit boy. He's happy here and playing well. Maybe this is a longterm role player for us like Maltby or Glendening. But that's just emotion talking. Committing to ancillary players like this is a luxury you can achieve when you're really good and they want to stay. But look, even Glendening walked out us when we got bad...

And we didn't even trade Glendog last year. Who know's why. Maybe there wasn't a good market for him, maybe SY really wanted to try to keep him still. Whatever the reason, we can all in hindsight agree that we absolutely should have traded him if we could have.

Good feels vs logic should be an easy win for logic everytime.

And he hasn't been re-signed yet which tells me he's probably on the block at this point. Sucks because I do really like him this year. We just ain't winning the cup this year and need to think about future assets now.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Namestnikov is a jack of all trades/swiss army knife type player. You need guys like that on the roster. He is still under 30, and definitely a Michigan guy. Any player should be available for the right price, but I want more than a 3rd to trade him. The fire sale is over. It's time to start building the roster. 

[Akakabuto 1,863]

>re-signing Erne was not a bad decision at the time
>Erne unfortunally regressed and sucks now
>Namestnikov is useful and we should re-sign him

I have a guess what we are gonna say about Namestnikov in a year from now.

The return must make sense of course. I am not promoting a fire sale. 

[kipwinger 8,772]

I'd argue that we should accumulate as many picks as humanly possible for the draft this year. A whole bunch of pretty good OHL (and Euro minor league players too) kids didn't get selected last year because they hadn't played in a year and teams weren't able to scout them properly. There are gonna be a ton of pretty good overagers this year on top of the first year draft eligible kids. The more 3rd, 4th, and 5th round picks you have the more shots you get a guys like Linus Sjodin (my darkhorse candidate), in the middle and later rounds.

As such I'd honestly trade Namestnikov for a 3rd and a 4th (or something like that). Same with Leddy, Greiss, and whomever else.

Think about this, we got Carter Mazur with a 3rd last year. Red Savage with a 4th. And Dower Nilsson with a 5th. Those are really good players at those draft positions. This year will be no different. Stack them picks.

[bIueadams 776]

3 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

>re-signing Erne was not a bad decision at the time
>Erne unfortunally regressed and sucks now
>Namestnikov is useful and we should re-sign him

I have a guess what we are gonna say about Namestnikov in a year from now.

The return must make sense of course. I am not promoting a fire sale. 

Yeah I see this as exactly another Erne situation. Namesnikov is an up and down player already too. This year he's great. Last year he was awful.

He's been traded for 4ths in his career twice now. If we can get a 3rd - absolutely get that.

38 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'd argue that we should accumulate as many picks as humanly possible for the draft this year. A whole bunch of pretty good OHL (and Euro minor league players too) kids didn't get selected last year because they hadn't played in a year and teams weren't able to scout them properly. There are gonna be a ton of pretty good overagers this year on top of the first year draft eligible kids. The more 3rd, 4th, and 5th round picks you have the more shots you get a guys like Linus Sjodin (my darkhorse candidate), in the middle and later rounds.

As such I'd honestly trade Namestnikov for a 3rd and a 4th (or something like that). Same with Leddy, Greiss, and whomever else.

Think about this, we got Carter Mazur with a 3rd last year. Red Savage with a 4th. And Dower Nilsson with a 5th. Those are really good players at those draft positions. This year will be no different. Stack them picks.

Good point. We have Vrana coming back too, so it's time to start cutting forwards.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

>re-signing Erne was not a bad decision at the time

Nope. It wasn't. And signing a player after a good season is when you should be signing them.

3 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

>Erne unfortunally regressed and sucks now
>Namestnikov is useful and we should re-sign him.

Nothing contradictory about those 2 statements. Both can be true. You cant assume that because one player regressed, the other will too. Erne and Namestnikov are not the same player.

4 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

I have a guess what we are gonna say about Namestnikov in a year from now.

Entirely possible. But SY is right more than he's wrong. And if Vlad is an SY guy, I like the odds.

4 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

>The return must make sense of course. I am not promoting a fire sale. 

Who said you were?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

Yeah I see this as exactly another Erne situation. Namesnikov is an up and down player already too. This year he's great. Last year he was awful.

Disagree. Since his first full season in 2014, Namestnikov has really only had 2 "bad" seasons, 2016-17 and last year. Chances are, last season was the outlier moreso than this season.

Erne, on the other hand, has never scored more than 20 points in a season, and has only been a + player once in the NHL. His best season was last season. And at only 25, he could have been a late bloomer. Sadly, he wasn't.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[bIueadams 776]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Nope. It wasn't. And signing a player after a good season is when you should be signing them.

Nothing contradictory about those 2 statements. Both can be true. You cant assume that because one player regressed, the other will too. Erne and Namestnikov are not the same player.

Entirely possible. But SY is right more than he's wrong. And if Vlad is an SY guy, I like the odds.

Who said you were?

I think Erne v Names is a bad comparison for an entirely different reason, but you're missing the point here. Nobody is comparing Erne and Names AS PLAYERS. We're comparing them because of their roles on the team.

They are both middle-6 ancillary pieces. In our situation you sell middle-6 ancillary pieces.

I think Erne v Names is a bad comparison for this because Erne was 25 and still under RFA control when he re-signed. Names is a 29 year old pending UFA.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Disagree. Since his first full season in 2014, Namestnikov has really only had 2 "bad" seasons, 2016-17 and last year. Chances are, last season was the outlier moreso than this season.

Erne, on the other hand, has never scored more than 20 points in a season, and has only been a + player once in the NHL. His best season was last season. And at only 25, he could have been a late bloomer. Sadly, he wasn't.

I'm not gonna split hairs about which player is better. Namestnikov just isn't very important to this team going forward. There will be plenty of 3rd line PK guys on the market this summer.

Edited February 24, 2022 by bIueadams

[bIueadams 776]

Texier, 22, Center, but ask seems way too high. They want a roster player and a 1st.

His stats are meh and he he hasn't played much... I'm assuming bc of injury.

But he's doing well this year and entered the league at 19/20. That's impressive.

But all of this makes you wonder why CBJ are trying to sell him...

Edited February 25, 2022 by bIueadams