2024 Offseason Thread

[Axl Foley 320]

2 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

You didn't answer my question about Husso. What is the injury he has that is you suspect is likely to reoccur?

Thank you for the info about arbitrations and buyouts. I understand it a fair amount being the one who originally brought it up regarding a Husso buyout...

"I don't care what Copp does for the team"

You lost all credibility right there. 

Hockey isn't all about pts. As soon as you learn that you'll understand why guys like Copp and Chiarot get paid and why guys like Ghostbear have to sacrifice 2 million to get a small amount of term.

Husso had multiple lower body injuries last season. He had one in December, came back in February only to suffer another one. Then he had another setback during his conditioning stint in April in GR.

I think you can understand how important a healthy lower body is to a goaltender. And a goalie who has suffered multiple injuries in the lower body is very concerning, especially considering how easy re-injury is. Nothing heals "as good as new".

And I am very well aware that "hockey isn't all about points". But if you think that Copp was signed to make almost 6 million dollars a season, for 6 seasons, to be a bottom 6 checking forward, then "you lost all credibility right there". 

[Jimmybigrigs69 297]

1 hour ago, Axl Foley said:

Husso had multiple lower body injuries last season. He had one in December, came back in February only to suffer another one. Then he had another setback during his conditioning stint in April in GR.

I think you can understand how important a healthy lower body is to a goaltender. And a goalie who has suffered multiple injuries in the lower body is very concerning, especially considering how easy re-injury is. Nothing heals "as good as new".

Husso confirmed he had two SEPARATE injuries, and did not reaggrevate anything existing. He also commented that he returned to play before he was fully healed in both February and April causing setbacks in recovery. 

Furthermore, Yzerman commented that both injuries were not serious and will not require any offseason surgery, as well as the fact that Husso will be healthy to start the season. 

There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Husso will be on LTIR. 

Patrick Kane is a soon to be 36 year old coming off experimental lower body surgery with the wear and tear of 1200+ games under his belt. He also went down in February with a lower body injury. And now he's doing his first heavy training offseason in years. Why are we not engaging in baseless speculation about Kane possibly perhaps maybe starting the season on LTIR? 

Larkin just had offseason surgery. Heck, he'll probably be on LTIR with Husso and Kane too. Can't trust these reports that explicitly say that that isn't the case...

But again, Scott suggests LTIRing Husso to be a vegas-style playoff weapon, based on absolutely zero info, and you take the bait hook line and sinker per usual...

2 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

And I am very well aware that "hockey isn't all about points". But if you think that Copp was signed to make almost 6 million dollars a season, for 6 seasons, to be a bottom 6 checking forward, then "you lost all credibility right there". 

Oh lordy

First of all, Copp was not signed for 6 seasons. We signed him for 5 @ $5.6

But more importantly, you're flat incorrect about his usage. He's not deployed as a "bottom 6 checking forward". He eats top 6 minutes. 

Larkin had his icetime reduced this year. And lost his spot on the PK unit to JTC. And no longer takes the toughest matchups... now Copp's job.

WTF??? LARKIN NO LONGER AN $8.7 200FT FORWARD????

Nah, Lalonde has just refocused Larkin towards offense, and Copp towards defense... Copp taking Larkins old duties. Which is the first smart thing a Wings coach has done in a long time. You do not want your best offensive player spending time and energy blocking shots on the PK.

And again, SY has brow beaten us with "becoming a better defensive team" this offseason, and Copp was literally the spearhead of that last season. The Ras-Copp-Fischer line easily being our best line on far more than just a few nights, shutting down opponents. 

Copp is also the only natural center on the team besides Larkin. Veleno blows at everything, and I love JTC, but he's far better at the wing. 

Copps not going anywhere my dood, let alone being bought out. He and Chiarot are the backbone defensive pieces of this team. And you should know that from watching the games.

[LeftWinger 5,061]

Here's something to think about, we're paying Petry $2.3M, but his actual contract is about $6.2M if you count everyone that is paying him. Maybe that would qualify for a buyout considering he actually does make more than $4M. Make Holl your 7th D.

re Husso, just buy him out if you can't trade him. We cannot do this 3 goalie thing again. If there's an injury, then we have Campbell to call up.

NEVERMIND the Petry buyout! Here's what'll it cost because YES he does still count at $6.2M It'll cost more on the cap to buy him out than to keep him!

Just buyout Husso and waive Holl or something.

Edited July 14 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 5,061]

If there aren't going to be anymore trades (hopefully there still is one in the works!) here is my opening night roster. 

BTW Puckpedia has really stepped it up! I like them better than capUNfriendly already! The even have to reserve list of players that aren't signed yet!

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/c/coppan01.html

BigRigs likes guys that tilt the ice in the opponent's favor.  The reason why Copp doesnt look like he's playing offence is because he isnt.  Unless you mean for the other team.  Guy has been a tremendous bust.  Look at his stats in NY compared to Detroit.  The SCAM got sold a bag of goods.

[Jimmybigrigs69 297]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Here's something to think about, we're paying Petry $2.3M, but his actual contract is about $6.2M if you count everyone that is paying him. Maybe that would qualify for a buyout considering he actually does make more than $4M. Make Holl your 7th D.

re Husso, just buy him out if you can't trade him. We cannot do this 3 goalie thing again. If there's an injury, then we have Campbell to call up.

NEVERMIND the Petry buyout! Here's what'll it cost because YES he does still count at $6.2M It'll cost more on the cap to buy him out than to keep him!

Just buyout Husso and waive Holl or something.

I don't believe PuckPedia is correct here. That might be for his full contract, but buyouts still get shared by the teams retaining salary. I believe a Petry buyout would cost us $1.5 over this season, and the same caphit next season. Probably smarter just to keep him, or waive him. 

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

If there aren't going to be anymore trades (hopefully there still is one in the works!) here is my opening night roster. 

BTW Puckpedia has really stepped it up! I like them better than capUNfriendly already! The even have to reserve list of players that aren't signed yet!

I'm not certain Tarasenko will play LW. He played LW for Florida a little bit, but I believe that's literally the only instance he's been on the left side in his entire career. 

I also don't think Motte will play much center. He's been used mostly at LW as of late. And Danielson shoots right. 

At defense, Gustafsson has played a lot on the right side over his career, so I think he'll go there b4 Edvinsson. I also expect Lagesson will get waived as soon as the season starts. 

Thinking this:

Debrincat - Larkin - Kane

Rasmussen - Compher - Raymond

Berggren - Copp - Tarasenko

Motte - Veleno - Fischer

Keep Dcat and Kane together. Hopefully Kane gets cat scoring again. As much as I love the Ras-Copp-Fish line, I think we need to break it up and spread that defensive acumen around the lineup. We also have too many RWs now to justify Fish playing anything more than 4th line minutes. And I'd like to see Ras get moved up to a scoring line to get him some offensive confidence. Copp and Tarasenko are also good responsible vets for bergy to play with. 

Chiarot - Seider

Edvinsson - Petry

Maata - Gustafsson

Johansson - Holl

Chiarot and Seider played well together last time. I'm not convinced Eddog is a lock for opening night, but fuq it, I don't know what forward rookie would take his place on the roster... im also pretty convinced Newsy will keep giving Petry undeserved top4 minutes. 

And then yeah run 3 goalies. Seemed to me SY was happy with the 3 goalie thing. 

[Axl Foley 320]

6 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Husso confirmed he had two SEPARATE injuries, and did not reaggrevate anything existing. He also commented that he returned to play before he was fully healed in both February and April causing setbacks in recovery. 

Furthermore, Yzerman commented that both injuries were not serious and will not require any offseason surgery, as well as the fact that Husso will be healthy to start the season. 

There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Husso will be on LTIR. 

Patrick Kane is a soon to be 36 year old coming off experimental lower body surgery with the wear and tear of 1200+ games under his belt. He also went down in February with a lower body injury. And now he's doing his first heavy training offseason in years. Why are we not engaging in baseless speculation about Kane possibly perhaps maybe starting the season on LTIR? 

Larkin just had offseason surgery. Heck, he'll probably be on LTIR with Husso and Kane too. Can't trust these reports that explicitly say that that isn't the case...

But again, Scott suggests LTIRing Husso to be a vegas-style playoff weapon, based on absolutely zero info, and you take the bait hook line and sinker per usual...

Oh lordy

First of all, Copp was not signed for 6 seasons. We signed him for 5 @ $5.6

But more importantly, you're flat incorrect about his usage. He's not deployed as a "bottom 6 checking forward". He eats top 6 minutes. 

Larkin had his icetime reduced this year. And lost his spot on the PK unit to JTC. And no longer takes the toughest matchups... now Copp's job.

WTF??? LARKIN NO LONGER AN $8.7 200FT FORWARD????

Nah, Lalonde has just refocused Larkin towards offense, and Copp towards defense... Copp taking Larkins old duties. Which is the first smart thing a Wings coach has done in a long time. You do not want your best offensive player spending time and energy blocking shots on the PK.

And again, SY has brow beaten us with "becoming a better defensive team" this offseason, and Copp was literally the spearhead of that last season. The Ras-Copp-Fischer line easily being our best line on far more than just a few nights, shutting down opponents. 

Copp is also the only natural center on the team besides Larkin. Veleno blows at everything, and I love JTC, but he's far better at the wing. 

Copps not going anywhere my dood, let alone being bought out. He and Chiarot are the backbone defensive pieces of this team. And you should know that from watching the games.

I never said Copp or Chiarot were going anywhere or even advocating for a buyout. I was simply listing options and candidates for those options. 

Also, do you think Copp is overpaid for his role or not? Copp makes too much to just be a shutdown center. You don't pay a guy over 5 mil a season just to take defensive responsibilities from Larkin. I can be critical of Copp's role vs salary, that doesn't mean I want to see the 6 years of cap hit buying him out would cause.

And Husso's injuries were most likely soft tissue. Muscle, tendon, and ligament injuries are very susceptible to re-aggravation. That is a concern for a position that relies so heavily on lower body maneuverability. I would not be at all surprised if he re-injures something in pre-season. That would then make LTIR an option if that happened.

[LeftWinger 5,061]

Buyout Husso, waive Holl.

[Al The Octopus 18]

Mo cheese agrees with you 

Edited July 15 by Al The Octopus

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

.40 CF% 

 

BigRigs - This guy is a defensive mastermind.

[Jimmybigrigs69 297]

13 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

I never said Copp or Chiarot were going anywhere or even advocating for a buyout. I was simply listing options and candidates for those options. 

Also, do you think Copp is overpaid for his role or not? Copp makes too much to just be a shutdown center. You don't pay a guy over 5 mil a season just to take defensive responsibilities from Larkin. I can be critical of Copp's role vs salary, that doesn't mean I want to see the 6 years of cap hit buying him out would cause.

And Husso's injuries were most likely soft tissue. Muscle, tendon, and ligament injuries are very susceptible to re-aggravation. That is a concern for a position that relies so heavily on lower body maneuverability. I would not be at all surprised if he re-injures something in pre-season. That would then make LTIR an option if that happened.

Just stop with the Husso BS. You don't know what the two seperate injuries were. The only thing we have been told to this point is he is expected to be fully recovered and ready to start the season. Any expectation outside of that is baseless speculation at this point.

 

Are we moving the goal posts on Copp now? You suggested he is one of the top candidates for the arbitration buyout. I'm telling you I think that's absurd, based on the critical role he plays in the lineup. 

We haven't even gotten into the weeds of the financials yet, and how messy/costly that buyout would be, which also makes it unlikely to happen. But I don't think that conversation is even necessary based on the players performance.

Do I think Copp is overpaid? Yes and no. Had Copp been developed in our system I don't think he'd have the contract he has right now. However, that's not the scenario of how he came to us, and I think we paid fair market price for him on the open market. If your going to fill critical holes with UFA players you're going to give up AAV and term. And we had to fill those holes.

Copp, Chiarot, and JTC were all given very lucrative contracts to come be a stabilizing force on a bad team. Copp probably doesn't love being a shutdown center with no PP time, but that’s the price he paid when we agreed to commit to him long-term. He's expected to be a good soldier and do what's asked of him, like eat the hard minutes others can't/won't. And Chiarot/Copp/Etc have been good soldiers so far. Which is why I don't think we'll see Yzerman lay a finger on any of those contracts... IMHO part of what SY is doing building a culture where guys who commit to the hard stuff, committ to systems, and soldier through, get put up on a pedestal. 

Veleno... you want 5 million dollars? Go play like Copp. You want top 6 icetime? Play like Copp. 

And just to be clear, I don't think Copp or Chiarot will be on a wings cup winning team. Maybe they will be on their next contracts, but not these. The idea of building through the draft is that we wont need to handout lucrative contracts to fill critical roles anymore. But that phase will come when these contracts are completed. Not bought out or moved.

Edited July 15 by Jimmybigrigs69

[Jimmybigrigs69 297]

44 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

.40 CF% 

 

BigRigs - This guy is a defensive mastermind.

I don't really follow any corsi stuff so idk what that means. Based on the matchups and wingers Copp played with I'm happy with how he played. And I expect he will probably generate more offense this year, as he's probably getting a big upgrade to his line with Tarasenko. Motte is also a decent PK forward, and will probably take some defensive burden off Copp. 

And I can't stress enough how important having guys like Copp, JTC, and Ras taking the defensive burden off of Larkin is. Larkin is an offensive player. We need him maintaining offensive pressure, not blocking shots. The presence of Copp allows us to do this. And it's been a major improvement for this team.

Yeah, I'm a Copp guy.

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

Copp: -2

 

BigRigs: He's the heart and soul of good defense.

1 minute ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

I don't really follow any corsi stuff so idk what that means. Based on the matchups and wingers Copp played with I'm happy with how he played. And I expect he will probably generate more offense this year, as he's probably getting a big upgrade to his line with Tarasenko. Motte is also a decent PK forward, and will probably take some defensive burden off Copp. 

And I can't stress enough how important having guys like Copp, JTC, and Ras taking the defensive burden off of Larkin is. Larkin is an offensive player. We need him maintaining offensive pressure, not blocking shots. The presence of Copp allows us to do this. And it's been a major improvement for this team.

Yeah, I'm a Copp guy.

Lets hope so

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 129]

If everyone on the roster is healthy a dman or tendy will be traded, waived or bought out. Yzerman isnt going into the season with 12 forwards, 8 dmen and 3 goalies. Somethings gotta give.

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Buyout Husso, waive Holl.

1 of these is likely the scenario. Both only if we need the extra cap space to add a top 4 right dman. which I hope happens.

[Jimmybigrigs69 297]

3 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Copp: -2

 

BigRigs: He's the heart and soul of good defense.

Lets hope so

Who are you going to replace Copp with? Ras, Motte, and Fischer don't really take draws. JTC does, but he's not particularly good at it, and is better at wing anyways. Veleno sucks at everything. Danielson or Kasper won't get shutdown duties as rookies. 

Best option in Copp's spot is probably... Andrew Copp.

[Akakabuto 1,831]

1 minute ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Who are you going to replace Copp with? Ras, Motte, and Fischer don't really take draws. JTC does, but he's not particularly good at it, and is better at wing anyways. Veleno sucks at everything. Danielson or Kasper won't get shutdown duties as rookies. 

Best option in Copp's spot is probably... Andrew Copp.

But what if we just don’t do those things and just score goals and get feisty out on the ice instead?

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

10 minutes ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Who are you going to replace Copp with? Ras, Motte, and Fischer don't really take draws. JTC does, but he's not particularly good at it, and is better at wing anyways. Veleno sucks at everything. Danielson or Kasper won't get shutdown duties as rookies. 

Best option in Copp's spot is probably... Andrew Copp.

Im not anti Copp.  He's not hurting the team.  Chiarot and Petry are definitely hurting the team.  Im anti Chiarot/Petry 100%.

[kipwinger 8,650]

On 7/10/2024 at 7:57 PM, Scott R Lucidi said:

I'm NOT saying that, but I think there may be a possibility that they have played lesser talent to keep ELC / RFA deals in tact.  And that sucks when you're ONE FRICKING POINT from being in the playoffs. A What I am saying is that they played the wrong players last year.  Edvinsson was a better option to play for every defensemen we had last year not named Moritz Seider.  He's better, and he was better, than all of them.  We didn't play him until March.  That cost us a playoff run.  That SUCKS BALLS, dude.

This is something that needs to be talked about more. We've all heard the company line "we're not going to mortgage the future to win now". But it's hard to believe that there's nothing SY could have done - aside from trading away important future assets - to gain ONE ADDITIONAL POINT. The margin of error is so thin that it's hard to buy this idea that it would be cost prohibitive to do something additional (e.g. call up Edvinsson sooner, buy at the deadline, etc.)

[Jimmybigrigs69 297]

39 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

But what if we just don’t do those things and just score goals and get feisty out on the ice instead?

And disobey Scams wishes?

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

13 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

This is something that needs to be talked about more. We've all heard the company line "we're not going to mortgage the future to win now". But it's hard to believe that there's nothing SY could have done - aside from trading away important future assets - to gain ONE ADDITIONAL POINT. The margin of error is so thin that it's hard to buy this idea that it would be cost prohibitive to do something additional (e.g. call up Edvinsson sooner, buy at the deadline, etc.)

Yah, big fail

[kipwinger 8,650]

Also, let's just trade next year's 1st, plus Berggren (and Johansson if necessary) for Zegras already. He's put up 60+ points at center (twice) and is no more or less useful in the defensive zone as most other offensive minded centers. I really like the looks of this...

Dcat-Larkin-Tarasenko

Kane-Compher-Raymond

Copp-Zegras-Mazur

Ras-Motte/Veleno-Fischer

Motte/Veleno

[AtlantaHotWings 1,085]

In his season ending presser around 3:51 Copp pretty much said he is doing what is asked of him 

 

[LeftWinger 5,061]

https://www.facebook.com/share/oPQxuXpfpEo1Bmm5/?mibextid=oFDknk

I like Bourgault, Ottawa is getting better! Could've been a nice addition.

 

Edited July 15 by LeftWinger

[Jimmybigrigs69 297]

15 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

In his season ending presser around 3:51 Copp pretty much said he is doing what is asked of him 

 

Yeah and Lolande said the same things.

With Yzerman constantly talking about how we need to play better as a cohesive defensive unit, and stop trying to outscore our problems... Copp certainly isn't in Yzermans doghouse or on the chopping block I would think. Probably the exact opposite, getting butt pats.

Copp also talks in that clip about the matchup nightmare his line created for opposing coaches. Other coaches quickly find out the Copp line is coming out against their own top line every shift. They don't want their top guys slogging it out against Copp/Ras/Fish while Larkin's and JTC's prey on their own lower lines, so they start breaking up their lines, moving their playmakers away from their scoring wingers, and now their chemistry and rhythm is all fuqqed up and theyre not breaking out as cleanly or getting the puck up ice quickly anymore, etc etc.

I prefer what Copp did this year, rather than get 20 more pts on the PP for the sake of sexy numbers. It's had a cascading impact on the lineup.

 

[LeftWinger 5,061]

So St. Louis has a logjam at D, rumor has it Krug (if he'd waived his NTC) is likely to be the one to go. Would you take him for 50% retained salary? He's 33, with 3 years left, but could make the left side better in the short term. And at $3.25M it wouldn't break the bank. This would require Legassen to GR and Holl waived as well. Making the D look like this:

(plus I also bought out Husso)

he had 40 points on a (just as) bad St. Louis team.