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Member Since 17 Jul 2010
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#2536443 Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on Today, 03:17 PM


If we are a playoff caliber team, Babcock should be able to elevate us to being a Stanley Cup contender - top coach plus playoff-caliber team should at least be in that discussion, right? If Babcock can only squeak us into the playoffs, the roster isn't playoff caliber. A playoff caliber team, in my mind, controls their own destiny and doesn't need a couple 'breaks' or puck bounces to eek into the 6-7-8 spot. Depending on which season preview you read, we're not even picked to finish that well...

You just have unique definitions of that term. For most playoff caliber would mean able to make the playoffs and making the playoff would be proof of that. You seem to discount the lower seeds as playoff caliber because they usually don't "control there own destiny." That's going to be an uphill battle against common sense, I think.


It is possible that we wouldn't have made the playoffs with a different coach, but it's also possible we would have finished higher without our injury woes. Both are what ifs - I think it's better just to deal with what did happen and we did make the playoffs. Also, I have not come across a commentator who's predicting we won't this year with the same roster.


I also disagree your rhetorical question, "top coach plus playoff-caliber team should at least be in that discussion, right?." I've never heard anyone argue that a lower seeded playoff team was a contender because of their coaching - it's always that the team underperformed during the season or they made some big deadline aquistions.

#2536374 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on Yesterday, 07:43 PM



His positioning still isn't where it needs to be, and a lot of his mistakes seem to get overlooked by people who would scream bloody murder if Ericsson, Smith, etc. had done it.  He's also physically weak and loses puck battles as a result.  Kronwall is far better, as is Ericsson.

Still, after less than a year, he's not perfect. And he's not better than Our number 1 in his rookie season. Of course!


Dickie, I appreciate that you often try to level peoples opinions of certain players, but here i think your expectations of him must be unreasonable. he's played in the league less than a year and already solidified a place in the top 4. 2nd in pts for defencemen (with little pp time). You argued against "his amazing development" in another posts. what did you expect? He's gone from undrafted player to solid top 4 in about 4 years. (2010 was his last draft eligible year) Maybe you're arguing against his NHL development because he really good when he first made the team? he has developed a lot since then and been given an increasingly large role.


You also said in your other post that he might only become an ok #2. First of all, are we only supposed to be happy with players if they are a future #1? Second, judging a player's ceiling from their rookie season is far from fool proof. Third, you're basically saying that he, as a 24 year old, only has the possibility of improving a very little amount over the rest of his career because I and many others already consider him a solid 2nd pairing defenceman.  

#2536321 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on Yesterday, 03:46 PM


Holland has shown a history of paying for potential (See: Kronwall, Filpulla) with hopes that the player grows into the contract. This is a fact.  


Obviously the Holland haters are hoping that Kenny offered him 100 dollars/year so that they can be even angrier at the man.


But the truth of the matter is, DD's agent is most likely asking for 4M/per.


Like I said, with Holland's mostly spotless history of dealing with RFAs, ypu have to think that the friction is coming from the DeKeyser camp.

Also, Holland said in an interview recently "It takes two to make a deal." Holland rarely makes negative public comments about negotiations. It really sounds to me more like DD's agent is the one causing this delay.


But anyway, they're having the same argument we are: he's played great and been given a large role, but hasn't played that long in the league. It really is a hard negotiating situation since the are few comparables and it's hard to judge risk. Yes, he stepped in to the NHL without the usual growing pains and looks like he'll only get better, but he's dealt with some injuries and we just haven't seen all that much of him.


I'm predicting DD is there for the beginning of camp.

#2536255 Ericsson and Alfredsson not 100%

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 15 September 2014 - 09:43 PM

Alfie go out in style no need to put your body through this you've already 68 $ million in your bank account!


Sign a day contract in Ottawa and retire as a Senator don't just hang on for the sake of it like Brodeur and Jagr are doing it's just not worth it.

Jagr is still damn good. Alfie was still very good as well, when not dealing with his injuries. 


Call me naive, but these guys love the game - they not going to "just hang on for the sake of it". They'll spend the rest of their lives wishing they could still play, so why not try to play as long as it's still possible and you think you can be effective? 

#2535878 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 10 September 2014 - 07:11 PM

She's essentially Ken Holland, in the form of a "reporter." I can read press releases and Holland's tireless quotes if I want the organizational spin.

What in that article do you actually disagree with?


Helen called for Quincey to be traded or scratched last year. She wrote that Clearly shouldn't be brought back this summer.


She gets more flack than she deserves.

#2535616 "But I don't want to be a pirate."

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 05 September 2014 - 01:17 PM

One of the best Seinfeld episodes.  


The Canucks should do some kind of Marine Biologist theme (they have a whale on their logo).



Not sure if Canadians watch Seinfeld, though.  

We love the Sein! I hate the Drake, though.

#2535512 Lines Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 03 September 2014 - 11:47 PM


Glendening is very overrated as a shutdown defender. Do you really want him out there against the top lines in the East? We have an abundance of capable two-way centers to perform that role, who also can contribute offensively as well. Glendening can stay on the 4th line if needed, but Babcock relied on him way too much down the stretch last season. You can't match Glendening every time with Malkin, Crosby or Bergeron because then Glendening ends up playing 15 minutes. That isn't gonna win the Red Wings many games. 

It does free up Zetterberg and Datsyuk. That's what Glendening's value is. We've often had top guys on defensive assignments and it means they're not creating offense. If we can trust Glendening with top guys then he won't be on every time Malkin's on, but he allows us to get our top guys with better matchups.


That said, I really didn't notice Glendening much last year. That's due in part to his role, but he'll have to develop other parts of his game to be really effective.

#2535476 Lines Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 03 September 2014 - 06:07 PM

I know this will seem like a totally crazy concept but here goes.  If we've got so many centers that we can't find spots for them all...and one as good as Helm has to be moved to the wing...couldn't we have traded one of them in a package for a natural winger?  Isn't that how other teams do it?  Trade the thing you have in abundance for the thing you don't have much of?

That's a good idea except that Weiss is still a big question mark. If he doesn't work as our #2 center we'll need our extra centers. If he proves to be the player others say he is, someone could become expendable. I think we just wait and see.


Love this idea from Babs. Helm is too good for the fourth line, but I couldn't see a way around it. Helm absolutely has better hands than Abby. 12g in 42 games without playing with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. And for whoever said he doesn't have the ability to finish all the chances he creates - How about having D and Z around to pick up his rebounds?

#2535380 potential team names for las vegas!

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 02 September 2014 - 01:20 PM

The Betmen


Gambling reference, tribute to the sugardaddy, horrible mangling of the english language: It's got it all!

#2534937 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 26 August 2014 - 11:32 AM


I disagree that it isn't a fair comparison. Both of these guys left the organization, so they gained most of their perspective from within Detroit's group. That they've been able to apply their experience to varied situations is exactly what I want to compare. They took what they learned (from Holland) in Detroit and have applied it elsewhere, in different situations.


Holland has had the luxury of ownership who allows him to spend to the cap ceiling and any cap space limitations (or bad contracts) are the result of Holland's planning and management. And, I'm not sure that there is an unwillingness of teams to trade with the Wings, I think that perception is one of the issues. The Wings don't have the guys that other teams want, no matter how rosy we make our prospects sound. We have a ton of depth- and role-guys, but not the excess of blue-chip prospects teams in rebuild mode want in return and it becomes easier and easier for teams to turn down a trade with Wings that revolves around Johan Franzen and Riley Sheahan for a top-tier guy... [Guys like Tatar, Jurco, Mantha, Nyquist, etc. come off the table because they are needed in addition to whatever the Wings are trying to trade for...]


That's really my biggest knock against Holland, he's been there long enough. Move on. He has nothing to prove. He's won Cups, he's got the longest playoff streak, he's drafted HOFers, etc. etc. etc. Let's get some fresh eyes on the organization and get ahead of the curve again in order to stay where we're at...

The Wings absolutely have blue chip pieces that teams want to trade for. There were many reports over the summer of other teams calling and inquiring about Mantha, Nyquist and Tatar. We could get something very good for them. But, with the potential of those players, management has decided that it would be better in the long run to keep them. I for one support that because I really those 3 and none of the player mentioned in possible trades have seemed to be a perfect, no risk fit for us (Edler, Myers, etc...). Besides I like the look of our D prospects.

#2534489 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 18 August 2014 - 01:44 PM

I think its one thing to idly talk about tanking, but I think if we ever had a season where we tanked I think everyone be talking quite differently. I think the reaction would be: he has destroyed this proud organization, tarnished Illitch's legacy, wasted years of D and Z's career, etc. If we even missed the playoffs there would a big cry for Holland to be fired.


Other effects of tanking: Babcock would probably leave for a team trying to win. Some players would probably ask for a trade. If you're complaining about UFAs not coming now, think about what it would be like if we finished last in the East. 


So, I know a high prospect would be attractive, but would lose so much in the process and be much farther from winning than we are now. Would it really set us up to win for a while? maybe if we got McDavid, but we would have to shed half the team to be that bad. 


We've lucked out and got at least one player that should have been a top pick in Mantha. I say luck, but Holland gets credit for discounting all of Mantha's detractors and recognizing a player open to bettering himself. Dekeyser choosing us was like a free 1st rounder. If you compare what we've added to the team in the way prospects to what Buffalo has by their recent tanking, and consider that we've kept our stars, does it really look like an attractive option?

#2534407 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 16 August 2014 - 10:54 PM

The Ehrhoff signing is almost a Hossa one and it clearly shows how the reception has changed. Back in the days top ufas wanted to come here and now the team is lucky to even be on their final lists. Nielsen has the connection yes, but the caps also presented him with an offer that was 4 million better than ours. Ehrhoff at 4 million is far from costly it's an absolute steal, Niskanen at only 5.75 or is also far from costly that guy is only getting better from now on because he is entering his prime. If a team doesn't get the top guys they need to draft top guys and develop them, the Wings for sure know how to develop players but only being good enough to just make the playoffs or missing them could easily lead to a Calgary our Buffalo situation in a few years. So the pressure for the prospects is already high and if one of the defenders turns out to be just average uuuuu...It's all I can say. Holland simple can't afford to wait and hope for the big signing anymore, as former mentioned this team isn't a premier destination anymore..So he needs to pull out some tricks o ur else this won't be far from the worst we might see. Is it fair who knows? But he is getting paid the big bucks and now has 4 years to prove he can still be the much needed mastermind behind the Wings. The whole loyalty thing is also funny, where was that when it came down to Draper, Dmac or Downey ? But given his performance since 2009 and one mistake after another it should easily be understandable why some fans are worried.

???????? Downey only played in Detroit one year (and one in GR). Loyalty goes to those have been around a while were an important part of your team at some point.


Draper and Dmac were shown great loyalty. McCarty's chance to come back in 07-09 was precisely due this loyalty. Few other organizations would have given that chance of a comeback to a 35+ character player.


Draper played 17 years for the same team and currently works for said team. How many 4th line centers can say that? You must see the loyalty in that. He was kind of forced into retirement, but he was 39 and it was pretty clear he was done. He was still offered a tryout contract. 

#2534357 Kevin Hayes

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 15 August 2014 - 10:05 PM

I would've liked the wings to get him. Hayes> cleary and alfie

Alfie is a future hall of famer. Even at 40 he scored 18 goals and 49pts in 68 games. A player who hasn't played a game in the NHL and had 1 really good year in college hockey is better than him? That's a big leap of faith to me.

#2534134 Alfie wants to play

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 12 August 2014 - 11:56 PM


I'm about to blow your mind.  If injuries weren't a concern over the last 5 years, Dats, Z, Helm, Weiss, and Franzen would have played more.  But guys like Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Cleary, Kindl, White, Colaiacovo, Eaves, Emmerton, and Gustavsson would have played MORE too. 


Conversely, guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Andersson, Sheahan, Jurco, and Mrazek would have played less. 


It's entirely possible that we could have been a WORSE team without injuries than with them.


You don't get to pick and choose the effect that injuries have.  Gotta take the bad with the good.  And when you have a s***ty roster, losing bad players to injury is a net positive. 




We were talking about over the last five years.  All of those guys (Bert, Cleary, Sammy, etc.) had significantly bigger roles in the last five years than they did last year, were not regular scratches, but were not in the lineup nightly because of injuries.  Net positive. 


And even if that weren't true, you're still making my point for me, which is that just because injuries severely diminished our success last season...they didn't noticeably impact us (for the worse) the four post-seasons before that.


Edit:  Actually, I take that back.  Even last year.  Without injuries there were not enough roster spots or cap space to call up ANY of Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco.  No injuries means Dats, Z, Franzen, and Alfie would have been surrounded by garbage all season.  Look at our opening day roster.  You think that team's winning anything?  Nope.

Okay, I think I figured out what you're saying. I think you have a number of points - none of which i was helping you prove.

 I think you're saying that Bert, Sammy, and Cleary getting injured was a good thing because it took them out of the lineup. To me that's a complicated "what if." For one thing, If those three weren't injured maybe they would've been effective players. To me, Cleary has only been bad the last 2 years and that definitely has something to to with his knee problems. I think Bert was a positive asset until last 2 years and that probably owes to his missing almost all of 12-13 with injuries. If Sammy came here, wasn't injured and played the way he did in Van and FLA he wouldn't have received as many death threats from LGW members.


In the 1st quoted section you seem to extend this to say: without injuries to knocked these 3 out we could have been a worse team in the past 5 years due to their collective presence. Even if I allow the idea that that is a positive, you're talking about the effect of injuries in general so the loses of Helm Z, etc would definitely counteract those "positives" and surely you wouldn't end up with a "net positive."


Also, you say that injuries didn't "noticeably impact us (for the worse) the four post-seasons before that." (last year). I really disagree with that. 2 years ago when we were a goal away from advancing past the Hawks, I think it's very debatable whether a healthy Helm and Dekeyser could have pushed us over the edge. Either way, not having those 2 had a noticeably negative impact on the team in my opinion.


As for your "edit:" statement, where you say that injuries were a positive thing even last year because they allowed Nyquist, Jurco, Sheahan to get in the lineup. This goes against your own statement that: "You don't get to pick and choose the effect that injuries have.  Gotta take the bad with the good." The injuries to D,Z, Weiss etc. clearly counteract the positive of getting Nyquist,Jurco and the Teletubby.


As a sidenote: Sammy, Eaves, Tootoo were put in the AHL. Cleary, Bert were healthy scratches at times. All the things could have allowed Nyquist to be on the team. I realize that some of these moves were done after and possibly because of Nyquist's move up to the NHL, but there were many possible ways to get Nyquist on the team and I think he's there by Christmas even without injuries. As for Jurco, Sheahan and how much they play, that's a different story.

#2533487 Paul McCartney and the Red Wings

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 01 August 2014 - 09:29 PM

We should cement this relationship and name the new arena Octopus's Garden!


Maybe Ringo can be the corporate sponsor.