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Member Since 10 Dec 2003
Offline Last Active Aug 30 2015 08:18 AM

#2610401 At what point does the GM deserve credit/blame?

Posted by Nightfall on 26 May 2015 - 01:21 PM


Johnson was undrafted. and was signed as a free agent by tampa bay in 2011... after Yzerman took over. 


My bad on that.  I was thinking Johnson but it was Hedman I was thinking about.  He was drafted in 2009.

#2610381 All Purpose Grand Rapids Griffins Thread

Posted by Nightfall on 26 May 2015 - 10:35 AM

I honestly wouldn't be at all surprised if the Griffins win 4 straight, taking the series in 5. I think we're much deeper up front (GRG - 3.5 GF/G vs UTI - 2.2 GF/G) and better on the back end as well, but we lose in the goaltending battle (GRG - 2.9 GA/G, UTI - 2.2 GA/G). We have much better special teams (GRG - 25%PP, UTI - 14.8%PP / GRG - 84.1%PK, UTI - 77.2%PK). Markstrom is the better goalie, but since those first two goals against McCollum, he has looked very solid. They finished 3 points ahead in the regular season but with the additions of Larkin and Bertuzzi, I think that puts us over the top.


I agree, the stats are there, but how many times have we seen a hot goalie steal a series in the playoffs?  I would say too many than I can count in my lifetime of watching hockey.


I am a glass half full guy though so I am hoping to see all 3 games go the way of the Griffins and them advance to the calder cup finals.

#2610367 At what point does the GM deserve credit/blame?

Posted by Nightfall on 26 May 2015 - 08:49 AM

We will forever rue the day we let Yzerman go.  We wanted him to overripe before becoming GM.  Next thing you know, he doesn't want to overripe, he goes to Tampa, makes two Conference Finals, and trades KFQ (as he's called here) for a first round pick.  Yeah, it's not all him and there's other factors involved, but it's hard to say that he's not succeeding, because he is.    


To answer Nightfall's question, there is no magic number for how long a GM should have.  It depends. Holland has been lucky that he surrounded himself with smart people in the front office, good coaches, great players and no salary cap.  As the people around him left, the salary cap disappeared, and the top players got old, he doesn't look so hot anymore.  I would have pulled the plug a few seasons ago on Holland and gone in a new direction. 


You are very quick to give Yzerman credit for the conference finals appearance in 2011 when he was just hired in March.  I give him the same credit because his hiring brought a lot of mental stability to the franchise.  Still, many would look at Holland's team in 98 and say he did nothing and deserves no credit.  Same with Yzerman's team in 2011.


In short, a GM's title at the time of the season ending is who gets credit in my book.

I think it depends on the team. Which players are drafted and developed by the Gm there compared to the one who took over. Look at the hawks. Their core group was built by Dale Talon. He drafted Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook. He traded for Sharp. He signed Hossa. Stan Bowman is still riding Talons team. Bowman has done a good job keeping solid depth to replace guys he lost to stay under the cap I.e. Ladd, Byfuglien. But the core of that team is all Dale Talon. The Wings team which won in 1997 and 1998 was essentially built by Bryan Murray starting with the infamous 89 draft when he selected Fedorov, Lidstrom and Konstantinov. Its tough to determine which Gms get credit for what. Anyone can interpret one way or the other.


Great post!  I agree.  Which is why the person who is hired in at the time is the one who gets credit.  Doesn't matter what has been done previously.


Yet, there are many here that like to point at the successes and failures of GMs and put an asterisk by some of their accomplishments or failures just based on the amount of time they have been in control.  That really is what this thread is all about.  After hearing some of the discussion in other threads, I decided to see what everyone thought as a whole.

#2610083 All Purpose Grand Rapids Griffins Thread

Posted by Nightfall on 25 May 2015 - 06:39 PM

Wow, I was thinking they better sit Larkin before the game because why mess with a winning chemistry.  Now, look at what this kid is doing.



#2609237 It's Official: Babcock to coach Maple Leafs

Posted by Nightfall on 20 May 2015 - 09:02 PM

It's not cup or bust in Detroit, it's improve or gtfo, why would we offer him five mil? He hasn't made it to the final four in years, we were right to let him go let's either get a big piece for the rebuild or make it past the first round next year, that's all I want.


So in other words, cup or bust.


Improving means that the end result is a cup.  I don't think that is realistic.  I think that playoffs is the first major milestone.  After that, its competitive.  We took the Lightning to 7 games and probably should have beaten them.  I don't think its a failed season.

#2608981 It's Official: Babcock to coach Maple Leafs

Posted by Nightfall on 20 May 2015 - 01:29 PM

That's a crazy contract. He's lucky it was offered. Can't blame him for taking it. Good luck to him.

Lets get Blashill signed quick, and move on.


After he wins a Calder Cup with the Griffins.  Be patient.  :D


Heck, based on the hirings before Blashill for head coaches in Grand Rapids, at least let me have a handful of quality games before the next idiot comes in and takes the Griffins to Craptown.

#2608974 It's Official: Babcock to coach Maple Leafs

Posted by Nightfall on 20 May 2015 - 01:27 PM


More money, and as a Canadian chasing the dream of turning that crapfest of a franchise into something respectable.   Foolish, but I can understand the dream.  


And the extra millions would probably help cushion the potential failure a bit. 


The only way this doesn't turn into a win for Babcock is if he gets in there and the franchise doesn't improve at all.  All he needs to do is get the Leafs to qualify for the playoffs his first year and that will be considered to be a successful season.  After that, if he can show progress, many fans will support him.


That is a heck of a lot different than in Detroit where the mentality is "cup or bust".

#2608938 It's Official: Babcock to coach Maple Leafs

Posted by Nightfall on 20 May 2015 - 01:15 PM

I wish all the best to Babcock.


My main concern is now twofold.


#1 - Can Blashill succeed at the NHL level?  When he was an assistant with the Wings a few years ago, the special teams he was in charge of was in the bottom half of the league.  The fans didn't want him around, and they saw the move to the Griffins as a demotion.  Can he be a head coach in the NHL?  I guess we will see.


#2 - Who is going to coach the Griffins after Blashill gets promoted?  After years of watching the Griffins have great talent and miss the playoffs or suck badly in the postseason, I really hope the Griffins can get someone else who can groom these kids and get them ready for the NHL.  Our pipeline is very important.  If it was me, I would be making both the AHL and NHL coaches very well paid if they are successful.  I am nervous that we won't find someone as good as Blashill or better at the AHL level to help lead these kids.

#2608577 All Purpose Grand Rapids Griffins Thread

Posted by Nightfall on 19 May 2015 - 01:07 PM

Go OKC!!! Idk how either team is, I just want the first two games in grand rapids so I can go :P


Utica was #1 in the conference, and in theory they should be a tougher team because we were #2.  We were 1-1 against them in the regular season with each team winning at home.


OKC was #6 in the conference, and we finished 2-2 against them in the regular season with each team going 1-1 at home.


Its not like we have an easier road with OKC.  I would like to see the home ice advantage though, but its only an advantage if you win at home.  :)

#2607934 All Purpose Grand Rapids Griffins Thread

Posted by Nightfall on 15 May 2015 - 08:15 AM

This kid is playing crazy good right now and helping this team at the best possible time.  I really hope we are seeing just a little of what he can bring to the table because his ceiling could be pretty high.

#2606568 All Purpose Grand Rapids Griffins Thread

Posted by Nightfall on 07 May 2015 - 01:04 PM

Ahh Pulkinnen. 


I liked him at the NHL  level but he doesn't show that he'll ever be a magnificent goal scorer to me like he is in the AHL. (IMO)


Its nice to see that highlight reel though, where he scored 3 different kinds of goals. Also nice to see that he can score when it matters. 


Bertuzzi is a surprise for me. He's from my hometown and I was upset when we drafted him so early. Hes injury prone, but he's just been getting twice as good each and every season.


Its a little early to be saying that he can't show that he has the goal scoring ability in the NHL.  He is going to get his opportunity to showcase his skills, and most rookies don't figure things out that quickly in the NHL.


As for Bert, I really love the spark he has given this team.  He didn't play the first two games of the Toronto series, so Blashill puts him in and they start winning.  This guy is playing for a roster spot next season and it shows with his desire and passionate play.  I love it.

#2605008 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by Nightfall on 30 April 2015 - 12:16 PM


The past was a long time ago.  Let it go.  


Wow, so our cup back in 08 and cup finals appearance in 09 was a "long time ago"?  Man, I wonder how Toronto feels with their last cup win.  Or Edmonton for that matter.  Heck, lets ask the Rangers how they feel since their last cup.

This really does show the level of entitlement that Wings fans have grown accustomed to over the course of the last 25 years.  Most teams have bandwagon fans.  The Wings have achieved a level of greatness where the bandwagon effect hasn't been measured because we have been good for so freaking long.


Now we are looking at Holland deserving blame for making the playoffs and not getting past the 2nd round since making it to the finals in 09.  When I see this attitude, I just shake my head in disbelief.  Is this really what some Wings fans have deteriorated to?  The salary cap era has made the playing field level.  No team is a slam dunk for a championship anymore. 


I will say this much.  Any new GM that comes in may have successes in some areas, but failures in others.  No GM is going to hit it out of the park on everything they do.  So while a new GM may have landed Parise and Suter for Detroit, he may have not gotten Dekeyser and wouldn't have gotten Hossa either because he wouldn't have had the money to get them all. 


I get it, Wings fans want a championship.  Its championship or bust mentality that really has to change though.  Only 1 team gets to win the Stanley Cup every year, and the favorite doesn't win it much of the time.  The sooner that we all realize that the Wings are just one of 16 teams in the playoffs and things have to go right for the team that wins it, the better off we will be.

#2604524 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by Nightfall on 29 April 2015 - 09:27 PM

Pretty sick of the endless KH apologists on this board. I guess they like 1st round exits.


The feeling is mutual with the KH attackers.  I guess they don't like multiple cup winners.

#2604398 ECQF Game 7 GDT : at Lightning 2, Red Wings 0 (Tampa wins series, 4-3)

Posted by Nightfall on 29 April 2015 - 09:07 PM



This is the start of the forum turning into a toilet on the verge of flushing.....


What a great series.  Wish it turned out different, but that is the way the cookie crumbles. 


Look at the bright side, the Griffins won tonight and they are going to get some horses back for their playoff run.

#2604203 ECQF Game 7 GDT : at Lightning 2, Red Wings 0 (Tampa wins series, 4-3)

Posted by Nightfall on 29 April 2015 - 08:44 PM

Ugh. Good job refs. I can't see how there was no call when Quincey got held and pulled down and then held down on the ground. Seriously! f*** the refs


Maybe we can blame them for Detroit not putting the puck in the net.  Better yet, maybe they will do it for us.