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Not at all, thats not what I said. The problem with Bettman's proposal is that its the players making ALL the concessions. There has to be give and take. So the owners want the players 57% share of revenue cut - OK, offer a 50/50 split but also offer an increase in the minimum salary to say, $600,000. The owners want the length of contracts reduced to 5 years max - OK, but also offer to reduce the age a player reaches UFA by a year. Then you have the basis for a negotiation, rather than the current list of "sign it or we lock you out" demands

The NHL is not in trouble, some teams are in trouble, and most of those wouldn't be if the owners were smarter.. And the players are willing to make concessions. They are willing to lower their share of the revenue. They're reportedly even flexible on the one option year. The players want to increase revenue sharing. They proposed allowing cap space to be traded, which would allow teams struggling to reach the floor to spend less and gain assets for doing so. How are they not trying to address the issues? The players don't want to accept another salary rollback, and they shouldn't. League revenues will likely be around $3.5 billion, and as of now there's about $1.75B in salary commitments with almost all teams having full rosters. So it seems we're pretty close to a 50/50 split right now. It's not the players fault that the wrong teams are spending money. Buffalo is and has been hemorrhaging money but they have the highest salary payroll in the league. $20M this year for Myers and Ehrhoff. $6M for Leino. Minnesota, San Jose, Tampa Bay are no better. Middle of the pack in revenue but trying to spend at the top while teams that can afford it like the Wings, Leafs, Rangers, Canadiens, and Flyers can't get enough players worth spending anything on. You want to call people uninformed and ignorant, but it seems you have no idea what the players are proposing and haven't looked at any of the numbers available. I think you just want to blame the players regardless of any facts.

You just perfectly described the current political climate in this country. I know, I know mods...Stay On Topic! esteef

I don't have any specific "evidence" that the floor is a problem to a lot of teams other than it being obvious....a lot of teams simply can't afford to pay to the floor. When you say the floor is based on cap hits, not actual salary, well.....the cap is based on actual salary, so it's the same thing. If you suggest Edmonton can end up paying almost $10 million less in salary than they have in cap hits, that just means they pay $10 million more in salary than in cap hits in the future, it's just a timing thing. In the end, total cap hit = total dollars spent, there is no difference.

Both sides are going to have to be open to move from their initial positions in order to get a deal done. So far, the movement away from their initial positions have been small to say the least. You mention that the owners already have, but that movement was just a blip on the radar. I find it funny how people who are dead set against the owners in this want to see them make the first major move. As if that would be the olive branch that the players need to make a deal. From what I have seen so far, neither side has it right. Neither side has put forward a proposal that would even come close to fixing the issues that are out there. What we need are less fans siding with the owners or players and more fans getting angry at both sides and putting pressure on them to make a deal. The people who are siding with one camp or the other are typically blinded by their hatred of the other side so much that they cannot see the real problems. You, for instance, want to see the owners come forward with a meaningful proposal. That is all fine and dandy, but why can't both sides work together to get a deal done? Why does it have to be the owners alone? Why not the players? Oh, thats right, the players are right in your mind, and every proposal they put forward has the pulse of the league in mind right? As for your questions on how I would know if the 57% would work or not or if the cap floor is a real problem, you are right in that these things could work in certain systems. Even I don't know what will work and what won't work in any given situation. All I do know is that there is a time to take sides and there is a time to stand with other fans and put pressure on both sides to get a deal done. That is where the fans should be sitting right now, not reading NHLPA or NHL propaganda and believing that your side is always in the right while the other one is always in the wrong. If you cannot see how that approach makes someone ignorant and uninformed, then I cannot help you.

...and that's just his winter home. I wonder what the house in Sweden looks like.

what a beautiful home, damn you drug dealers and your 2.9 million in cash!

For too many of the owners, they have other "hobbies" to fall back on. The players don't have that kind of luxury.

Why should the players budge? Bettmans proposal is take, take, take, take, take, take, take and take. Not a single proposal to sweeten the pot, no "we want to take this, but we'll give you that in return" to make them go "OK". Bettmans proposal isn't a negotiation, its an ultimatum. He's treating the NHLPA like a vanquished foe trying to get the least punitive terms out of an unconditional surrender, rather than an equal partner in negotiations for the mutual good. I was on the owners side last time around, and as I've mentioned previously he did some good things for the players such as significantly raising the minimum salary (important when ~ 40% of the NHLPA are on mimimum salary), but this is just pure greed and stupidity. Bettman needs to go as point 1 of any new CBA.

Lidstrom is pimp