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The guy was a staple of Red Wings hockey. I'll miss hearing his voice echo through the Joe.

I figured that since both sides urged each other to produce new proposals at last weeks meetings that they would have begin talking about economics this week but I guess not. Ridiculous. So I assume that neither side is willing to move even a little bit so that they can even being to talk about economic issues. And this is where both sides are at fault. No urgency to get this deal done

Gary Bettman admitted he'd never been to an NHL game in his life before becoming commissioner and has run the NHL like a guy who had never been to an NHL game before becoming Commissioner. Any time Bettman says he feels for the fans or mentions the fans being the real losers in his lockout how would he know? He's not an NHL fan.

What could I possibly have been referring to when I said Bettman has done this three times? Anyone? Any guesses?

So as not to appear blindly anti-union, I thought I would try to share in a nutshell the problem with the NHLPA (and unions in general): The reason I am against the players union and the CBA in a nutshell is because it restricts the flexibility of the owners to make reactive and responsible business decisions... because they are limited by the CBA. In the long run, this will produce lock-outs and financial distress for many teams in the league... and is currently doing just that! To use colourful language... the medicine is ultimately worse than the disease. Concerning whatever business failings particular owners in the NHL had prior to the 2004 season, and even those currently... that’s part of free market economics and those teams should have failed, or been bought out by a responsible businessman who could run a proper buisiness. I simply reject the argument that the only solution to that problem was the players union and a CBA. Edit: This is getting intense - I’m taking a break!

I think that you are being deliberately obtuse, to avoid admitting that your idea of dissolving the NHLPA is totally clueless. There's NOTHING about an NHL team that is even close to "free market". If you offered the NHL owners an option to get rid of all non "free-market" elements in their business, they would run you out of town on a rail. Here's how a typical NHL team operates. 1. Their arena is built with all or majority government financing, with few exceptions (most of them in Canada). "Free market" would force the owners to shell out their own money. 2. When they don't own the arena, they are usually paying subsidized rent etc. Local law enforcement usually helps to provide security in and around the arena, while the team never pays full cost of that. 3. Their local taxes are way lower then for any other business, when they pay any. 4. Their employees can not choose their place of employment and have to play for the team that drafted them until they are more than halfway into their careers. In a "free-market" there can not be a draft or restricted free agency. 5. They can collude with other owners to set limits on employee compensation and labor conditions. Again, in a "free-market" that would not be possible. 6. They can prevent any other team from coming into "their" geographically (very broadly) defined market. Try that in a "free-market". 7. In a "free-market", the owners couldn't renege on the already signed contracts short of declaring bankruptcy, which is what they are trying to do now. 8. In a non "free-market", the players can get together to defend their interests, just like the owners are now free to collectively conspire to limit the players compensation, In a "free-market", neither could occur. You can not pick and choose what elements of a "free-market" you want to have and which you want to get rid of. It's an all or nothing deal. So in real life, given the existing laws, if there is no union, then the salary cap, the draft, the RFA, waivers draft all have to go. In a "free-market", there wouldn't be a players' union, but the league would have gone bankrupt years ago, because the owners repeatedly demonstrated their inability to stick to their budgets when signing players. Again, before 2004, when there was no salary cap and no guaranteed players share of the revenue, the salaries rose very fast and the players share of the revenue went up to 70%+ just before the last lockout. That was not the union doing. That was the owners signing ridiculous contracts.

You seem to keep assuming that I am ignorant of the supposed benefits of labor unions. I don't believe this is a matter of education, but rather a difference of opinion on the supposed benefits of labor unions in general, and if those benefits can be obtained through other means that are not restricting to running a successful business. Here is what I said in full: ... now, I did not realize that labor laws force acceptance of a union in order to institute something like a salary cap. Whether a salary cap was the only option to address the problem in question is a debatable matter. That aside, it is a very true statement that we would not have a lockout currently if the union didn't exist. Ergo, if your only goal is to watch hockey and you couldn't give a crap about the politicking... you should support dissolving the labor union.

and Fehr would? Please.

Bettman just said Crosby gets 175 pts this year no matter what.

I have a request: can we keep news quotes from being highlighted in grey? It's killing my eyes.

There is no actual "pro sports anti-trust exemption". MLB was exempt until 1998, but now it's a limited exemption. The NFL has a limited exemption as well. The Clayton Act contained a labor exemption, which basically made unions exempt from anti-trust liability. That exemption was used to derive the Non-Statutory Labor Exemption. That basically says that a CBA takes precedence over anti-trust laws. i.e. A CBA can contain terms that would otherwise violate labor laws. Since that exemption requires a CBA, and a CBA requires a union...the union is in fact entirely necessary. Without the union agreeing to the hard cap, half or more of the league's teams would likely have gone bankrupt by now.

Team souvinirs, the tv you watch the game on, and the remote used to mute Don Cherry are all made in China.

The only thing that matters here is money, and like others have said, unfollowing NHL or some player or whoever won't amount to much or help solve the lockout issue. Some folks suggest boycotting the NHL altogether, but that isn't viable either. We all understand just how passionately we love the game, and the moment the Wings take the ice again, everyone will be watching and spending money on memorabilia. Besides, a boycott punishes us as fans moreso than the big guys at the top, whose wallets are already quite stuffed. As fans there is very little we can realistically do that will echo into the upper tiers of NHL management. But we aren't completely hopeless. Despite what they may want us to think, the NHL does not have a monopoly on hockey. There are other leagues around that can provide good entertainment. Instead of sitting the year out as a fan, stay invested in the game, but turn your attention (fully) to the Griffins, or the Whalers or whoever tickles your fancy. Spend the same amount of money on tickets as last year. You'll go to more games and have better seats! Buy a jersey and a hotdog on hotdog night. Go out to a local restaurant or bar before the game. Help the local economy. If we're very very lucky and enough dollars are put into other leagues, it may remind the NHL and/or players how much their losing, and may entice them to reach an agreement sooner (although admittedly not likely). At the very least, us as fans still get to enjoy quality hockey, and check out some top prospects while we're at it, and maybe some of us will start a lifelong fandom into a totally new league. There's also the plus of helping out the local economy and financially backing some of these smaller teams. You would be spending all that money on the NHL anyway, so why not? I know I'm already planning to take the 2.5 hour drive to Grand Rapids to catch the Griffins play a few games this year. If FSN gets enough votes the Griffins games will be televised, too (there's another thread floating around where you can cast your vote). I'll be staying at a hotel and eating at the local hot spots when I visit, and I'll be spending about as much as I would spend in Detroit if a lockout wasn't occurring.

Injury? No, it's a new KHL rule: They even named it after him: the Happy Coaster.