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Bold 1: You're both choosing specific stats that agree with your arguments. From each point of view, you're both correct. What you say about both players total time with Detroit is true. What he says about both players since Zadina got called up is true. You both get a sticker. Bold 2: Nobody is hating Fabbri (except nyqvististhefuture, but he is always wrong anyway). We all love Fabbri. Fabbri is love. Fabbri is life. Conclusion: Zadina and Fabbri are both awesome and will both be important, core players on this team going forward.

We're Canadian

Since this is being discussed in the "Cholowski Sucks" thread, I thought I would talk about Cholowski here. He sucks.

January Draft Report: Mid-Season Rankings Breakdown [Dobber Prospects]

Yeah I have no doubt he'll be in the NHL, I just think he is our best shot at a top four outside of the obvious. Tuomisto has potential, but still a very raw talent and a ways away if he does make it to the NHL level. Someone like Drysdale would be an impact NHL dman before Tuomisto. Or even McIsaac for that matter. He was underwhelming, but solid at the WJC. He also only played like 3 games before that tournament. Hard to jump into a high pressure tournament like that to basically start his season.

Too smol

I know you're not serious, but as far as I know, everyone (except nyquististhefuture) loves Fabbri. No hate. No one talking about bust. Really good middle six winger. Great Nyquist replacement (ironically)...

Oh absolutely. I'm just not sure they'd be interested in joining a work in progress at this point in their careers. But yes, Lafreniere can change the game. Even when it comes to attracting UFAs. Markstrom, Lehner, or Greiss can solidify that position along with Bernier. Krug or Barrie at the right price could certainly speed the rebuild up as well. Key words, right price.

I just don't think proven coaches would have much interest at coming to a team at the bottom of a rebuild. Sure Gallant went to Vegas when they were expected to be a s***ty expansion team, but he got that taste of going to the finals and coaching a perennial playoff team. I have little doubt Laviolette wants to win as well. For a team in the Wings state, it's likely either stick with what you got, hire a garbage coach desperate for a job, or bring in someone new. Assuming no coaching upgrades want to come here, which is likely, I'm all for sticking it out with Blash to see what he can do as the team gets better. Who knows, maybe he would do great things with a capable roster. He's yet to have one at the NHL level. He walked into a lose-lose situation in Detroit and has done a great job developing young players.

prospect update https://www.mlive.com/sports/j66j-2020/01/ec98c7ecea9069/how-detroit-red-wings-prospects-are-shaping-up.html

Position is only influencing my opinion because I do not think Raymond will be any better or worse of a winger than Drysdale will be on d, or Stutzle will be at center. As I said, if all is equal, which in my opinion, is the case with those three players. The rankings have so much fluctuation after the first 2 picks, that it's just more or less a wash in the 3-7 range as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps you've looked into Raymond a lot more than I have. Who knows? He will be a great player, no doubt. I just don't think he'll be any better (or worse!) than the other two that I'd prefer. You see Raymond in a tier above Drysdale and Stutzle. I see all three in the same tier, which is why I use position solely as a tiebreaker. I think Drysdale will be the steal of the draft tbh. Like Byfield, he is one of the younger players in the top 10. The way he stepped up in high pressure situations in the WJC when Byram got hurt was also wonderful to see. I do think he will end up as a Hughes/Makar calibre dman. He is also known for playing well on the defensive side of things too. He'll be a beast in the WJC next year, no doubt. The Bobfather also has no doubt he'll be a top pairing dman in the NHL. Dude says the kid is legit, and I see nothing out there to argue otherwise. Raymond will be awesome as well, of course.

Never have I seen such a polite argument go on this long.

That's the point. All of the threads are merging. I don't know which one I'm reading / posting in anymore. It's chaos!

I think you need a mix of both at all positions.

What's funny about that? Both could be true... Is it Blashill's fault this team sucks? Nope. Is it possible that another coach could get more out of this team? Yup. Does Blashill need to be replaced this season? Nope. Should Blashill be replaced if a better coach comes along? Yup.

For what it's worth, most modern analytic models don't use powerplay shot totals for precisely this reason. It inflates a players value, relative to their actual overall contribution. So if you're a fan of Corsi, WAR, WOWY, GF/60, GA/60 or any other modern method of assessing player value you're implicitly agreeing with @ChristopherReevesLegs.

The Athletic: Pronman's Mid Season Draft Prospect Rankings Too long didn't pay? Well here's the top 5 1. Lafreniere - nothing new 2. Byfield - best tool kit in the draft 3. Stutzle - complete winger who many scouts think can convert to, and be a #1 C in the NHL due to skill and defensive play 4. Rossi - exciting skill set and projects as a #1 C in the NHL despite his size 5. Askarov - special goalie prospect We're in good shape here buddos

He learned from @Dabura and I. We've created a monster.

Whatever you say man... Who has scored more at even strength since Zadina has been up (which, by the way, was the original point...)? Zadina. It's also hilariously dumb to only look at even strength. Since when does power-play production not matter? If Zadina were better on the power-play and even strength (which will likely be the case soon enough), but Fabbri scored more in the 2nd period, I'm sure you would be saying "bUt FaBbRi Is BeTtEr In 2nD pErIoDs"...

BUT YOU WOULD CARE IF HE PUT UP SIGNIFICANT POINTS IN STL... You "don't care", because those numbers skew his totals in a way that don't support your argument. This all started because someone said Zadina has been better than Fabbri since being up with the Wings. That is true, and it does matter. No amount of your mental gymnastics is gonna change that LOL.

Fabbri was often scratched with the Blues, but was never on their 4th line. He spent the majority of his time on the 3rd line with Bozak at center, and one of Sanford, Steen, or Thomas on the other wing. Zadina wasn't ever scratched, but constantly being sent up and down can have a similar effect. He played mostly on the Wings "2nd" and 3rd line to start, but with lesser linemates than Fabbri ever had in St. Louis, with one of Filppula or Nielsen at center, and one of Helm, Erne or Glendening on the other wing. Since being promoted and playing with mostly capable linemates, Zadina has been very good (better than Fabbri) by just about every metric. Zadina is better than Fabbri now, and will likely be MUCH better in the future. That should be exciting as a Red Wings fan, unless it means you might be wrong apparently...

I can't believe he hit the net to be honest

If I had to pick one? Both

I know Stutzle is the popular pick these days if we don't win the lottery, but I honestly don't see this player projecting out as an NHL center