edicius 3,269 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 (edited) Are we seriously the only team in the league that hasn't made some kind of outside-the-organization move? Even the Penguins, Islanders, Bruins... Has Dallas done anything yet? They're the only team that comes to mind now. *edited for spelling* Edited July 5, 2006 by edicius Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Agreed..some realism on this site is refreshing!! Thinking we can either sign every free angent thats out there just because LGW posters think we can is stupid! People thinking we can low ball every contract because its necessary to bring in one of the before mentioned free angents is ridiculous too. Bashing the GM who has won 3 cups in 10 years and trimmed a payroll from 80 million to 40 million in one summer is also absurd. Am I dissapointed that we haven't performed in the playoffs recently? Of course I am but we can't win the cup every year. Lets stop living in fantasy land folks and look at how lucky we have been and hopefully how lucky we will be in the future!!!! Watch out, you'll probably get drilled for posting as such. Anyway, you are right on. It seems that if you agree with Ken Holland (which nobody, including me does all the time) then you are considered to be resting on your laurels or living in the past. But that's not true. We all want post season success. We all think we know what the team needs and who we should sign. But then reality sneaks in there. Just because a guy is gritty or tough doesn't mean spit about whether he can play in our system or have chemistry with his teammates. Just plugging in a stereotype isn't sound management. Its about finding the right guy with the right skill set, not just a guy who goes slamming around the ice with no real direction or ability. Barnes brought up Barnaby. Anybody who thinks Barnaby, at this stage of his career could ever hope to keep up in our system is just so far out there I don't know where to begin. The long range missile the North Koreans just fired had more direction and more success than Barnaby would in our system and that sucker tanked after like 30 seconds. He also mentioned Carney (sorry Barnes, I'm really not trying to make this about me & you) but Carney is older than Chelios (ok not really but freaking close enough) and he's getting over 2 million and thinks that's a good signing? Carney is about as soft as cotton these days. Ahhh, people are just jonesing because its the offseason and other players are moving and we're not really doing much. Well, if you step back and look, mostly the bottom feaders are doing the major moving. Alot of the winning franchises have pretty much tried to retain their core and/or have lost their better players. Heck, Colorado lost Hinote and Rob Blake. That's the beauty of an 82 game season. We've got all this time to see how we're doing and we all know we've still got a talented team, so play some games, wait for a deal that actually hepls us, don't just panic and throw cash at whatever name pops up on the board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rice 42 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Has Dallas does anything yet? They're the only team that comes to mind now. They signed Halpern and Barnaby. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edicius 3,269 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 They signed Halpern and Barnaby. Drat, forgot about that. What other teams ARE there, then, that have been as inactive on the market as the Wings? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FirstSamuel1745 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Agreed..some realism on this site is refreshing!! Thinking we can either sign every free angent thats out there just because LGW posters think we can is stupid! People thinking we can low ball every contract because its necessary to bring in one of the before mentioned free angents is ridiculous too. Bashing the GM who has won 3 cups in 10 years and trimmed a payroll from 80 million to 40 million in one summer is also absurd. Am I dissapointed that we haven't performed in the playoffs recently? Of course I am but we can't win the cup every year. Lets stop living in fantasy land folks and look at how lucky we have been and hopefully how lucky we will be in the future!!!! Well, see, here's the deal. First of all, Holland has only one Cup to his credit - give Scotty Bowman the props for the two in the 90's. And that Cup was won only by buying every future HOF'er in the league. Trimming the payroll in half last year isn't something to give him credit for - its his job. He didn't have a choice. I agree with you that we can't lowball every single contract we negotiate. My beef with Holland is that he hasn't shown me yet that he can operate in the cap era. Offering Shanahan a 4-mil contract is evidence that he still doesn't have it down. I'm all for loyalty to your players, and I'm glad the Red Wings are consistently loyal (probably a bit too much). But 4 million to Shanahan? With all the holes (esp. goaltender) still to fill? That's insane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckbags 863 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Well, see, here's the deal. First of all, Holland has only one Cup to his credit - give Scotty Bowman the props for the two in the 90's. And that Cup was won only by buying every future HOF'er in the league. Trimming the payroll in half last year isn't something to give him credit for - its his job. He didn't have a choice. Gimme a break..whether you're the biggest Holland bandwagon basher or not I think he deserves credit for the 2 cups in the 90's. Of course he signed all the big names when we won the cups in the 90's because he could. What do you expect him to do when Illitch gives him blank cheques and say's build me a winner?? "Sorry Mr. Illitch I don't think we should bring such and such in because I'm spending too much of your money!!"..get a grip!! He still had to be careful who he signed and traded for because their is this little thing called chemistry which can be f***ed up by bringing in one *******. One thing this team has always seemed to have even in our losing playoff years is good chemistry so giving the greatest COACH of all time all the credit for the 2 cups is assinine. As for the cap..you don't think is may have been slightly harder for Holland to trim the payroll by almost 40 million (estimate) then for another gm to trim it by only 5-10 million.. I think you can answer that one on your own!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Well, see, here's the deal. First of all, Holland has only one Cup to his credit - give Scotty Bowman the props for the two in the 90's. And that Cup was won only by buying every future HOF'er in the league. Trimming the payroll in half last year isn't something to give him credit for - its his job. He didn't have a choice. I agree with you that we can't lowball every single contract we negotiate. My beef with Holland is that he hasn't shown me yet that he can operate in the cap era. Offering Shanahan a 4-mil contract is evidence that he still doesn't have it down. I'm all for loyalty to your players, and I'm glad the Red Wings are consistently loyal (probably a bit too much). But 4 million to Shanahan? With all the holes (esp. goaltender) still to fill? That's insane. Yeah, that cap era...damn...it's been a long year now......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 (edited) I really hope someone else picks him up. He has done nothing to deserve $4M. You can be the biggest Ken Holland apologist in the world, but you've gotta be out of your mind to justify Shanny at four million a year. And the reason you don't give Ken Holland credit for assembling three Cup winners is because he didn't. Scotty Bowman did it, he assembled our roster before Ken ever became GM. Edited July 5, 2006 by Heroes of Hockeytown Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regwinguofmfan 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Gimme a break..whether you're the biggest Holland bandwagon basher or not I think he deserves credit for the 2 cups in the 90's. Of course he signed all the big names when we won the cups in the 90's because he could. What do you expect him to do when Illitch gives him blank cheques and say's build me a winner?? "Sorry Mr. Illitch I don't think we should bring such and such in because I'm spending too much of your money!!"..get a grip!! He still had to be careful who he signed and traded for because their is this little thing called chemistry which can be f***ed up by bringing in one *******. One thing this team has always seemed to have even in our losing playoff years is good chemistry so giving the greatest COACH of all time all the credit for the 2 cups is assinine. As for the cap..you don't think is may have been slightly harder for Holland to trim the payroll by almost 40 million (estimate) then for another gm to trim it by only 5-10 million.. I think you can answer that one on your own!! Well you just gave the bashers alot to work with. Seems to prove the fact that he cant put together a team with a cap in place. I think limited funds seriously hurts his style, which was sign everyone who may be good and try and trade the losers out before the deadline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 WE'VE BEEN IN THE CAP ERA FOR A YEAR AND HE HAD THE MOST DIFFICULT JOB OF ANY TEAM TRIMMING DOWN THE HIGHEST PAYROLL!!! Goodness people, I'm not defending him at all b/c I raise an eyebrow too, but the way some of you make these sweeping statements is so nearsighted and silly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grind Line 33 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Drat, forgot about that. What other teams ARE there, then, that have been as inactive on the market as the Wings? Chicago, I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salviaman 104 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Every day now since July 1st I wake up and say: Hey, I wonder who the Wings have signed today. That is anything but true because this offseason is going downhill fast. I hope we sign somebody soon so I can feel good about next season. As for Shanny signing for $4million?!!?!? That would make me a sad panda. Also if we sign either Hasek/Belfour I will not watch any games next year because it will just be another early playoff exit. We need changes to happen, and so far nothing is happening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Maybe a 4 million 2 year deal would've been better , but i want shanny back & i want Biron here , if shanny takes like 2,40 Mil i'll be happy , & if Biron gets the Trade for Scheinder & a pick , i'd be happy & ken holand has never been my favorite person , but he has done some good things , ( in 2002 were the most memorable ) , he may be smart or a he may be an idiot we'll see when the season starts next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rice 42 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Chicago, I think. They got Lalime... I guess that's a move. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nutz2u Report post Posted July 5, 2006 CNNSI has Shanny asking for 2 years @ 5M per yr. Chew on that a while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 CNNSI has Shanny asking for 2 years @ 5M per yr. Chew on that a while. No way in Hell should Holland come close to that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FirstSamuel1745 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Gimme a break..whether you're the biggest Holland bandwagon basher or not I think he deserves credit for the 2 cups in the 90's. Of course he signed all the big names when we won the cups in the 90's because he could. What do you expect him to do when Illitch gives him blank cheques and say's build me a winner?? "Sorry Mr. Illitch I don't think we should bring such and such in because I'm spending too much of your money!!"..get a grip!! He still had to be careful who he signed and traded for because their is this little thing called chemistry which can be f***ed up by bringing in one *******. One thing this team has always seemed to have even in our losing playoff years is good chemistry so giving the greatest COACH of all time all the credit for the 2 cups is assinine. As for the cap..you don't think is may have been slightly harder for Holland to trim the payroll by almost 40 million (estimate) then for another gm to trim it by only 5-10 million.. I think you can answer that one on your own!! I'm not a Holland basher. And as another poster put it, "And the reason you don't give Ken Holland credit for assembling three Cup winners is because he didn't. Scotty Bowman did it, he assembled our roster before Ken ever became GM." Scott Bowman was the GM. Before Holland. Remember? Probably not, I think this shows how long you've been following. Of course you spend it when you can - which is exactly why I'm skeptical of his ability when he CAN'T spend at will. That's my point - the one you missed. And honestly, I tried giving Holland the benefit of the doubt with him trimming the roster, but why in the world should we pat him on the back? He trimmed the roster - the jury's still out on whether he cut the right guys. I think you missed my point. The Wings are clearly not in a real good position right now to challenge for a Cup. Its Holland's job to get us to that point, and I see no action towards that end. And I personally don't think giving Shanahan 4 million a year pushes us in the right direction. Here's your soapbox back..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scotzman 29 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Chicago, I think. Columbus... NYI... NJ... Pittsburgh... TB... Carolina... Toronto... Atlanta... Philly... Minnesota... Montreal... San Jose?? Should I go on? Re-sigining your own FA's doesn't count in my book... even Kenny did that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lou_Siffer 1 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Gimme a break..whether you're the biggest Holland bandwagon basher or not I think he deserves credit for the 2 cups in the 90's. Of course he signed all the big names when we won the cups in the 90's because he could. What do you expect him to do when Illitch gives him blank cheques and say's build me a winner?? "Sorry Mr. Illitch I don't think we should bring such and such in because I'm spending too much of your money!!"..get a grip!! He still had to be careful who he signed and traded for because their is this little thing called chemistry which can be f***ed up by bringing in one *******. One thing this team has always seemed to have even in our losing playoff years is good chemistry so giving the greatest COACH of all time all the credit for the 2 cups is assinine. As for the cap..you don't think is may have been slightly harder for Holland to trim the payroll by almost 40 million (estimate) then for another gm to trim it by only 5-10 million.. I think you can answer that one on your own!! Why is it that every pro Holland guy seems to think he was GM for the '97 cup? That seriously gets under my skin! Ok, read closely please. Ken Holland took over as GM of a Cup winning team in '98. Do you honestly think they wouldnt have won that 98 cup if not for Holland? Give me a f'n break!! Yzerman, Shanny, McCarty, Draper, Lidstrom, etc were already on the team he INHERITED. Of course he could then afford to keep all these guys around for '02 since he had an unlimited bankroll...why would those guys even WANT to leave??? Is he some brilliant GM for bringing in 3 Hall of Famers to add to that same core? The almighty Holland knows all! So please...spare me this crap about Holland building these great Cup teams. The thing that bothers me the most about Holland is that he gets cut slack by people for the 3 consecutive early playoff exits....when he has yet to prove his abilities! With the core players of the past not being able to win anymore, now is the time for him to show that he can assemble a winner by making changes. Big changes shouldve happened last year, but they didnt. Now, his job should be on the line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rice 42 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 NYI... Witt, Sillinger, and Hilbert. Pittsburgh... Eaton and Ruutu. TB... Denis. Carolina... Grahame. Toronto... Raycroft, Kubina, and Gill. Atlanta... Rucchin and Kapanen. Minnesota... Demitra, Carney, Jonsson, and Parrish. San Jose?? Grier and Brown. Philly... Baumgartner and Robitaille. So, if you dont want to count re-signing your own free agents, the only teams (besides us) that have done nothing are Montreal, New Jersey, and Columbus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiantRobot 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Columbus... NYI... NJ... Pittsburgh... TB... Carolina... Toronto... Atlanta... Philly... Minnesota... Montreal... San Jose?? Should I go on? Re-sigining your own FA's doesn't count in my book... even Kenny did that. No, dont go on, because youre only right on 3 of them as Arice pointed out. I just saw Holland on fox 2 news, and he said he picked belfour up at the air port. Theyre waiting for MRI's... I cant honestly believe that Holland is courting that guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
datsyukismyfriend 4 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 i'm getting fed up with holland. four million for shanny is ridiculous! how does he not understand the problems with this team???? it's beyond me. shanny is not an answer. we need youth and speed and physicality and drive and heart, not players that had these qualities ten years ago. i thought after this playoffs, finally holland would see the picture. i guess not. looks like this year is more of the same only they're gonna pay more for the same losing team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 $4M? Yikes.... Shanahan would be silly to pass up this offer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J-Swift 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 So, if you dont want to count re-signing your own free agents, the only teams (besides us) that have done nothing are Montreal, New Jersey, and Columbus . Well, if you want to get technical, Columbus did pick up Modin in the Denis trade. Not to mention they have a pretty stacked young core that's only going to get better next season. So, essentially, every other team in our division has brought new players into their lineup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimp19 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Holland needs to consult Joe Dumars so he can learn that after a certain point you have to let a guy walk. Let's not put all the blame on Holland yet, because this could be Mike Illitch doing this. The loyalty talk I hear reminds me of (DONT SHOOT) al davis..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
