Flyers acquire, sign Hartnell/Timonen

[Zion 93]

Good thing the Flyers aren't in our division.

Eager + Hartnell = dead Euros

[Legionnaire11 0]

Smithson is a pretty decent role player, he plays hard. It'd be good to re sign him.

Up front is going to be kinda iffy for you guys if Kariya doesn't come back. Still have Sully and Rads and Legwand and Erat but it gets awful thin real quick and no Forsberg, Kariya, Hartnell means lower numbers from those guys. Its amazing how great players can turn 10 goal, 30 point guys into 25 goal 50 point guys but if you lose Forsberg and Kariya that's alot of talent gone and not easily replaced.

At least you have Chicago, Columbus and St.Louis to play 24 times so that'll help get you into the playoffs.

speaking of Smithson, I don't have a link at the moment, but he just re-signed with the Preds. So there's one 3rd/4th line spot filled.

like you said, up front we can get thin in a hurry. Our top two lines are going to be really good. But we'll need both of them to be good all season so that opponents can't key on one of them. If we get an injury in our top 6 forward, or one or two guys go in a long slump, we're going to be hurting.

hey gordie... who knew we could just talk some nice civil hockey?

[Kp-Wings 3]

Good thing the Flyers aren't in our division.

Eager + Hartnell = dead Euros

Good point. Look at the way they manhandled us back in February. That game was an absoulute joke. They pushed the Wings around like a paper bag.

[akustyk 84]

Good point. Look at the way they manhandled us back in February. That game was an absoulute joke. They pushed the Wings around like a paper bag.

yes and no. yes, because we were absolutely no match to their physical play. no, because we were able to stick to our gameplan without bringing out too much hustle and with them running like crazy and really going for a win.

we ultimately got our asses handed because of some horrible giveaways, but that was only in 3rd period. in 1st and 2nd we're OK against their tough play. I mean: we got a severe beating, but still tried to do something our way

oh... and BTW: that game was a good glimpse of what Lilja is in this team for. while not a punisher, he was there as a major Wings physicall presence and looked fine in this role. he did still surprise me in playoffs later, but Philly game was a demo version of valuable Lilja.

Edited June 19, 2007 by akustyk

[Lou_Siffer 1]

yes and no. yes, because we were absolutely no match to their physical play. no, because we were able to stick to our gameplan without bringing out too much hustle and with them running like crazy and really going for a win.

we ultimately got our asses handed because of some horrible giveaways, but that was only in 3rd period. in 1st and 2nd we're OK against their tough play. I mean: we got a severe beating, but still tried to do something our way

oh... and BTW: that game was a good glimpse of what Lilja is in this team for. while not a punisher, he was there as a major Wings physicall presence and looked fine in this role. he did still surprise me in playoffs later, but Philly game was a demo version of valuable Lilja.

Didnt Lilja turtle to Gauthier of all people in that game? He definitely stepped it up towards the end of the season, but i considered that an embarrasing moment.

[akustyk 84]

Didnt Lilja turtle to Gauthier of all people in that game? He definitely stepped it up towards the end of the season, but i considered that an embarrasing moment.

exactly. but other than this moment he had a solid game. and he had another good game

against Ducks at the end of regular season. and if I recall correctly he even fought

some Duck then (Moen? Greene(sp)?)

what I basically wanted to say, is that after many games when Lillypads was scape

goat for LGW and the guy to bash, he's shown some solid play and a physicall

presence we wanted from him. for me, this was some kind of indication what he

might eventually be capable of. though, his playoff work surprised me big time anyway

Edited June 19, 2007 by akustyk

[poolerman 0]

I'd lose quite a bit of respect for Holland if he signed Hartnell. If Hartnell had gone unnoticed by Detroit in the FA season, I imagine it would have been because of smarts, not cowardice, on the part of Holland. Hartnell is a cheap, unscrupulous player who would horridly disrupt the integrity of the team. The guy is great at running goalies and cheapshotting players smaller than he is; he also gets his ass kicked whenever he's forced to fight by somebody who can defend himself, such as Fischer and Shanahan. He is, in essence, Claude Lemieux the second. Do not allow homer goggles to blind you.

As for WHY this trade happened: it's a fair bet that, with the tumultuous situation the Predators organization has found itself in, the higher-ups wouldn't or couldn't spring for the amount of money Timmonen and Hartnell would demand on the market. In return, they've acquired a high draft pick which they can sign for cheap. It's a lopsided trade, yes, but they got something for Hartnell and Timmonen instead of simply losing them on the FA market and getting nothing. This was a smart move by the Preds, considering their present straits.

Flyers had lots of picks..but this is what free agency is all about - if you really want the player you will have to

pay for the rights to negotiate and then over pay...all the guys 1st signed are overpayed because teams really want them...and no one else

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Didnt Lilja turtle to Gauthier of all people in that game? He definitely stepped it up towards the end of the season, but i considered that an embarrasing moment.

Espcially when he has 4 inches and like 10 pounds on him to boot. That was also the game I gave up on Kronwall , 2 horrible turnovers to start the thrid and they scored both times. Add in he fumbled the puck at least 3 times that night while on the PP. And didnt throw any meaningfull bodie checks.

But I'd say Lilja was probably worse

Edited June 20, 2007 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[Kp-Wings 3]

Espcially when he has 4 inches and like 10 pounds on him to boot. That was also the game I gave up on Kronwall , 2 horrible turnovers to start the thrid and they scored both times. Add in he fumbled the puck at least 3 times that night while on the PP. And didnt throw any meaningfull bodie checks.

But I'd say Lilja was probably worse

Kronwall only manages to throw a meaningful body check once every full moon. He never plays consistantly physical. It's usually one big hit followed by a set of hits not even noticable.

One guy that always manages to throw a big hit, no matter the situation, is Vitaly Vishnevski. I would love it if he played on the Wings.

[RedFX 48]

No, nobody considers Yzerman, Maltby, Holmstrom, etc dirty players. Nobody except you and your fellow Preds fans.

I like how you compare McCarty fighting Claude to Hartnell tearing a guys ACL. McCarty was getting revenge for the hit on Draper, and he did it by fighting. Hartnell just goes around and knees people for the hell of it. He IS A DIRTY PLAYER. Put your bias aside. There's no way around it. His track record is ridiculously huge when talking about how many people he's cheapshotted.

Yzerman getting ejected one is the same thing as Hartnell putting people out for the season dozens of times? Okay, please go away if you think that. No one considers people that go to the front of the net dirty, either. They think that people who knee others repeatedly are cheapshotting douchebags. Hey, that sounds like Hartnell!

Okay, I'm a Wings fan first and foremost. I just live in Nashville and watch the Preds and would know how Hartnell plays. And no, I'm not comparing anything that's happened in the past. I'm simply illustrating the matter of perspective here. Knowing the perspective of the Preds fans and your response, you just proved my point. The point is, until you actually pay attention to the Preds, don't judge a player, and don't post random s*** like "kneeing people for the hell of it" until you know who your talking about.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Okay, I'm a Wings fan first and foremost. I just live in Nashville and watch the Preds and would know how Hartnell plays. And no, I'm not comparing anything that's happened in the past. I'm simply illustrating the matter of perspective here. Knowing the perspective of the Preds fans and your response, you just proved my point. The point is, until you actually pay attention to the Preds, don't judge a player, and don't post random s*** like "kneeing people for the hell of it" until you know who your talking about.

Yeah Agalloch is not one of our smarter posters. And this is coming from someone who thinks Hartnell IS dirty. But I watched atleast half their regular season games with center ice. So ive seen this guy on a quite regular basis. But to just randomly lay judgement on a player when you dont even watch their team is pretty pathetic.

[eva unit zero 271]

reference: http://wingsfights.110mb.com/fights-0304-03.htm

see it for yourself.

Yzerman did not get tossed cause he was gooning up.

Man I miss Jiri. I remember the exact spot I was standing in when I saw that fight.

[Guest Agalloch]

Yeah Agalloch is not one of our smarter posters. And this is coming from someone who thinks Hartnell IS dirty. But I watched atleast half their regular season games with center ice. So ive seen this guy on a quite regular basis. But to just randomly lay judgement on a player when you dont even watch their team is pretty pathetic.

Haha, I say you don't know what you're talking about in another topic, so you reply with this bulls***. You have no idea what you're talking about, and your sole purpose on this site is to suggest stupid things and make dumb arguments with people. Everyone disagrees about Samsonov. You DO NOT KNOW A THING ABOUT HOCKEY.

And where the hell did I say I never watch the Preds? Believe it or not, I watch teams other than the Red Wings! Holy s***! Groundbreaking information here. Hartnell is a dirty bastard, and 99% of all hockey fans agree.

[Legionnaire11 0]

Hartnell is a dirty bastard, and 99% of all hockey Wings fans agree.

Fixed

[akustyk 84]

Hartnell is a dirty bastard, and 99% of all hockey Wings fans agree.

Fixed

let me do my correction:

Hartnell is a dirty bastard, and 99% of all hockey Wings and Sharks fans agree.

and that's only because Preds didn't advance past Round 1. otherwise there would be another team on

this list.

but you sure bet it'll grow longer once Hartnell starts playing his game in Philly

Edited June 20, 2007 by akustyk

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Fixed

Not all wings fans , I have nothing agaisnt Hartnell

[akustyk 84]

Not all wings fans , I have nothing agaisnt Hartnell

hey... that's what the remaining single 1% was for, right?

actually, I'm with you on that. under a less gooning coach Hartnell could become

more dependable player and with his package of physicality and scoring touch

he could be a great addition to Wings.

the thing many people don't get is, if players do s*** like running other goalie

or smashing oposing players headfirst into the boards on regular basis - it's not

just their own creatiity. coaches hold a lot of responsibility for such stuff.

guys like Ruff, Crawford or Trotz are all big part of what s*** their players do

on the ice. anyone remember Crawford laughing after Moore incident?

Edited June 20, 2007 by akustyk

[Legionnaire11 0]

Fixed

let me do my correction:

and that's only because Preds didn't advance past Round 1. otherwise there would be another team on

this list.

but you sure bet it'll grow longer once Hartnell starts playing his game in Philly

true. playing 16 games against the Rags/Isles. the new york media is sure to nit-pick everything he does. And 8 games with pittsburgh, Hartnell could end up being Crosby's nemesis.

or, seeing as he really isn't as dirty as everyone wants to believe, we won't hear much about him anymore. I have a feeling we'll see a post at some point in the future saying "Wow, Hartnell really dropped all the gooning and actually became a decent scorer with the Flyers". When really, he'll be playing the same game he always has, but since he's not going up against the Wings 8 times a year, you guys just won't be viewing his play with homer glasses.

the thing many people don't get is, if players do s*** like running other goalie

or smashing oposing players headfirst into the boards on regular basis - it's not

just their own creatiity. coaches hold a lot of responsibility for such stuff.

guys like Ruff, Crawford or Trotz are all big part of what s*** their players do

on the ice. anyone remember Crawford laughing after Moore incident?

Crawford is a Major League ******* (thanks mr bush). I don't think Ruff is as bad as most people do. And Trotz, I don't think he tells players to go out and goon it up, but he definitely doesn't do anything to discourage it, which is just as bad.

Now for the debate. Who is worse Crawford or Sutter? that's a tough one.

[akustyk 84]

I have a feeling we'll see a post at some point in the future saying "Wow, Hartnell really dropped all the gooning and actually became a decent scorer with the Flyers". When really, he'll be playing the same game he always has, but since he's not going up against the Wings 8 times a year, you guys just won't be viewing his play with homer glasses.

don't think so. Philly is Philly and if you'd like me to believe they took a player known for being bastard to turn him into an angel.... you aren't serious, are you?

if anything, they can do it the other way - turn an angel into mean *****

yes, I agree he'll get from most Wings fans sight and I too think he will be a decent goal scorer in Philly. but I don't buy the thing about him becoming Lady Byng nominee honestly

EDIT: I guess we basically talk about the same, and it's just the perspective which changes the tune.

Now for the debate. Who is worse Crawford or Sutter? that's a tough one.

can't see a single coach able to stand a chance against Crawford. even Sutter isn't this league. Ruff's league maybe, IMHO

as for Ruff - the guy put Petersen & co. against Heatley/Spezza in that game when Neil cheapshotted Briere or whomever. and that was well after the initial incident happened. the guy is tough ass and one to hold grudges for long time. an extremely dangerous coach to be cocky against

EDIT: as for coaches... the very Randy Carlyle is another type of killer coach. a bit different because he isn't making

fireworks with his tough players (except for Pronger) but a guy who knows how to "play" toughness and dirty works

tactically and make use of brutal plays. not an old school guy, but one who silently utilizes tough actions to get the

edge. and a very cool man on the surface so you won't notice that he's cooking some s*** to your team

Edited June 20, 2007 by akustyk

[Kp-Wings 3]

Fixed

I'd take Hartnell on the Wings. I guess me and Detroit #1 fan are the only two, but you can still drop it 98%.

[Guest Agalloch]

Uh, actually Legion, tons of people at Hockey's Future for one agree that he's a dirty player who lives to injure people. I think you're the one that needs to take off the homer glasses, because it seems that you refuse to admit that he does anything dirty, when that cleary IS NOT the case.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

speaking of Smithson, I don't have a link at the moment, but he just re-signed with the Preds. So there's one 3rd/4th line spot filled.

like you said, up front we can get thin in a hurry. Our top two lines are going to be really good. But we'll need both of them to be good all season so that opponents can't key on one of them. If we get an injury in our top 6 forward, or one or two guys go in a long slump, we're going to be hurting.

hey gordie... who knew we could just talk some nice civil hockey?

Erat will be key. That guy is good and maybe he hasn't even peaked yet. I know he got hurt this past year, is he prone to injury? Definitely you need the top 6 to stay healthy. And you're right about them needing to be hot all year. Unless somebody in the org. can pick up some slack on the 3rd line as far as offense they'll need to be hot. It's a two part issue: 1. you lose Timonnen so the potential for more and better scoring chances against goes up and you lose key offensive players so maybe offense for the Preds goes down. If both happens it can be trouble. But if they can find a way to play strong team defense then they can win alot of games 3-2 or 2-1 because of Vokoun.

As for the civil stuff, bite me! J/K

I can be as civil as a Lady Byng nominee and I can also be the biggest ******* on the planet (just ask my wife). I have a tendency to have no fuse whatsoever so I can go from sound asleep to raging, foul-mouthed sailer in about 2 seconds. The good part is you can call me an asshat anytime you want b/c of something i've said to you but if you can get over it so can I and its water under the bridge. I'm a firm believer in not being all that PC. I believe in telling people to f-off if that's how you really feel and get it off your chest. The hope is that after you've each done that you can progress. Some would say that's a dumb, backwards ass way of going about things but a little fire in your belly, a little drama, confrontation and some pimp slapping has always helped me become better friends with people than being a phony.

PREDS STILL SUCK!!

ps: If you lose your team I will feel bad for you. I don't live there but a friend of mine from college has lived in Memphis for over 2 years doing post grad work and he said he never hears people talking about hockey at all. Take that for what its worth. Anyway, you're knowledgeable about hockey in general and not just the Preds so to me that means you love the game and I would feel bad for anybody who loves hockey to lose their team.

[Legionnaire11 0]

Uh, actually Legion, tons of people at Hockey's Future for one agree that he's a dirty player who lives to injure people. I think you're the one that needs to take off the homer glasses, because it seems that you refuse to admit that he does anything dirty, when that cleary IS NOT the case.

still talking? actually I don't have a problem with you talking. I just wish you would incorporate some facts to back it up. give me a list of all the players hartnell has injured, and all the suspensions he's served because of it. I mean, he's only concerned with injuring others, so surely after 7 years in the league it should be easy to compile a lengthy list of these occurances.

ps: If you lose your team I will feel bad for you. I don't live there but a friend of mine from college has lived in Memphis for over 2 years doing post grad work and he said he never hears people talking about hockey at all. Take that for what its worth. Anyway, you're knowledgeable about hockey in general and not just the Preds so to me that means you love the game and I would feel bad for anybody who loves hockey to lose their team.

Memphis is one of the biggest draws in the CHL though. Still not enough to generate any buzz there. It's a big basketball town. Does your friend ever go to any Riverkings games? they've always had a decent team and a great atmosphere for basically A level hockey.

[Opie 308]

I love that, Crawford looks like he is about to have a coronary and Bowman is just like "piss off youngster"!!

[mrhockey2k 2]

Damn i miss FISH!