Dom Drops Ball, Ozzie Answers Call

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

I know it's early and Dom is still "not 100%", but that was his worst game in a LONG time. 4 goals on 12 shots.... Ozzie comes in and the Wings mount a sort-of comeback. And honestly, I would have pulled him after the 3rd goal. I feel MUCH more confident in Ozzie than I have in a long time (and I am not alone) and I think that Babcock has some serious thinking to do.

My question is, How should the theorhetical 60/40 split be arranged now? IMO Ozzie is the better goalie. Before I get all the "He's Dominik F'ing Hasek" and "He's always been a slow starter" posts let me just say...So what. If it were 1998 or even 2002 I would say " GO DOM GO!!!" But it is 2007 and Ozzie is the better goalie. If Vernon were here would you want him in net? Would your argument be "But he won a Conn Smythe and is a solid goaltender" or would your argument be "Mike Vernon is old and not in playing shape."

It is easy to remember the glory days of Dom and want those days back, but they are not coming... How many games are you willing to sacrifice to division and conference opponents who are clearly not as weak as they were in 02 just so Dom can hit his stride? I say ride the faster horse and let the legend rest before he drops on you. I would rather have 2 healthy goalies and 1 bruised ego than just 1 healthy goalie come play-off time.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

It's just one game. Ozzie can come in and play in need be.

I will be worried if Dom loses on saturday however. Because whenever he gets pulled, he comes back the next game and plays out of his mind. If he gives up more then 2 goals on Saturday, we have a BIG problem.

[VM1138 1,921]

It may be just one game, but let's face it. When there's a breakaway and it's one-on-one against Dom, how many of you feel confident he'll stop it? Virtually every time there is no defense in front of him, Dom collapses. Osgood does not.

I do not feel confident with Hasek. I'm not a fairweather fan, and I realize he starts slow, but when I hear he is in net for an upcoming game, I no longer feel like a win is a given. With Osgood, I have to say, I feel much more confident.

[red and white forever 10]

that was a hard game to watch, especially when the blues had so many 3 on 1's, 2 on 1's and completely s*** the bed, they looked like a bantam team, but got a few shots on goal that counted and that was the difference, i could have puked when hasek let the mayers goal in, beauty shot, but hasek was completely out of position, that's my piece, i'm out!

[puckloo39 5,686]

I may be the last one here, but I am not bailing out on Dom.

I have a couple of questions. If Hasek doesn't ever play, how exactly is he supposed to be ready for the playoffs? Most goalies in the NHL have to have some playing time to get into a groove, and Hasek may be more in that mode than most. So, sitting him for weeks, months, however long everyone thinks is good... is that the best plan?

If something happens to Ozzie ***pttootie-pttootie--warding off evil whammies, God forbid!! anything happen to him** then what? We have a completely untested-in-the-NHL Jimmy Howard and a rusty Hasek with no game time and no momentum in net for the playoffs?

Anyway, if there is something really wrong and Dom can't make a go of it this season, he will be the first one to acknowledge it. There is still money in the bank and the Wings can get someone else if need be, I suppose. I just can't see them heading into the playoffs with just one goalie.

That said, it was just one game tonight. It might be too early to show Hasek the door just yet.

[Barrie 900]

I hate to say it, but I think Dom is done. I was hoping we'd quit while we're ahead with him after last season, and bring up Howard this year, but oh well. Not my decision.

If Dom tanks, I don't think it's a big deal. Ozzie can be #1 and Howard can back up. Hasek's $2.5 Million isn't that much against the cap anyway.

Anyway, if there is something really wrong and Dom can't make a go of it this season, he will be the first one to acknowledge it.

Yup, I have a lot of respect for Dom when it comes to that. If he can't do it, he'll be the 1st one to say so.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Firstly, I'm neither an Osgood or a Hasek slappie.

Hasek had absolutely zero chance on 3 of the 4 goals given up. 5-on-3 PP scramble goal, 5-on-4 PP goal after everything broke down and the puck was in the Wings zone forever, and Mayers made a bullseye of a shot that nobody stops unless they are a 7 foot sumo wrestler.

That being said, Babcock did the right thing yanking him this evening, and I think it was morseo as a message not just to Hasek but THE ENTIRE TEAM to pull their heads out their behinds. The change did help, but it was not because Hasek was total garbage. Again, absolutely little/no chance on the goals not including the breakaway.

Whether some like it or not, Hasek needs to keep playing. I'll repeat what I stated recently about this. Hasek, while he hasn't been dazzling, has been far from terrible like many have or will over-dramatize in here. Consider how the team has played in front of both goalies. Osgood has been rock solid and has probably stolen a game or two so far, but nobody in here can tell me with a straight face that the team has played as good in front of Hasek as they have in front of Osgood so far this season.

So Osgood playin well so far this season works out for the both of them, as I have recently stated. Osgood gets some more playing time, Hasek gets some extra rest but STILL PLAYS. It's a 1A/1B tandem, as of right now, where neither goalie is considered a "backup".

Hasek is nowhere near done, again consider how the team has played in front of him for some of the games he has been in net for (this evening, Anaheim game). And the only other games he lost were a 1-goaler and a shootout. Until there is a stretch of games where he just flat out stinks, he starts more of the games.

Hasek will be fine, Osgood is fine. Please, for the sanity of this forum and its members let's not have overdramatic knee-jerk overreactions.

Edited November 14, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[puckloo39 5,686]

Firstly, I'm neither an Osgood or a Hasek slappie.

Hasek had absolutely zero chance on 3 of the 4 goals given up. 5-on-3 PP scramble goal, 5-on-4 PP goal after everything broke down and the puck was in the Wings zone forever, and Mayers made a bullseye of a shot that nobody stops unless they are a 7 foot sumo wrestler.

That being said, Babcock did the right thing yanking him this evening, and I think it was morseo as a message not just to Hasek but THE ENTIRE TEAM to pull their heads out their behinds. The change did help, but it was not because Hasek was total garbage. Again, absolutely little/no chance on the goals not including the breakaway.

Whether some like it or not, Hasek needs to keep playing. I'll repeat what I stated recently about this. Hasek, while he hasn't been dazzling, has been far from terrible like many have or will over-dramatize in here. Consider how the team has played in front of both goalies. Osgood has been rock solid and has probably stolen a game or two so far, but nobody in here can tell me with a straight face that the team has played as good in front of Hasek as they have in front of Osgood so far this season.

So Osgood playin well so far this season works out for the both of them, as I have recently stated. Osgood gets some more playing time, Hasek gets some extra rest but STILL PLAYS. It's a 1A/1B tandem, as of right now, where neither goalie is considered a "backup".

Hasek is nowhere near done, again consider how the team has played in front of him for some of the games he has been in net for (this evening, Anaheim game). And the only other games he lost were a 1-goaler and a shootout. Until there is a stretch of games where he just flat out stinks, he starts more of the games.

Hasek will be fine, Osgood is fine. Please, for the sanity of this forum and its members let's not have overdramatic knee-jerk overreactions.

If I could somehow fit your entire post into my signature, I would do so, SWF. That was awesome. You are far too sane to post here, I think.

[gcom007 1,465]

I have a couple of questions. If Hasek doesn't ever play, how exactly is he supposed to be ready for the playoffs? Most goalies in the NHL have to have some playing time to get into a groove, and Hasek may be more in that mode than most. So, sitting him for weeks, months, however long everyone thinks is good... is that the best plan?

I think the point is that if he keeps playing like this whether it's all his fault or not, there ain't no way he'll be starting in the playoffs anyways. Last week I still thought that he's got the job without a doubt. This week, not so much at all and that shift was not a result of tonight's game. No, tonight's game just raised more concerns.

But again, you gotta get him some starts to atleast see if he can get it going because if he can, it's the way to go. I just really don't know though. Some people keep saying he just needs more shots and you can't expect him to be good facing so few shots. Well, newsflash, that's what you get when you play behind our D so if you can't deal, then move over for someone who can.

I don't care who takes the #1 right now. I just know Dom better show up and show up soon if he's going to. Like I said in the other thread, if he's not rolling by the end of December, I don't see him lasting through January. I don't think he's got enough in his tank this year. Again, I hope he proves me wrong, but I have my doubts.

[auxlepli 17]

If I was Babcock, I'd keep Ozzie in net at this point.

On the other hand, maybe Hasek just needs more work.

It's tough choices like this why Babcock is making millions, and I'm on a message board second guessing him.

[gcom007 1,465]

It's a tough call. I'd probably give Hasek the next start then Osgood one and Hasek two after that and run it like that for a couple weeks to see how it goes. If Hasek doesn't come around, like I said, frankly, I think he'll peace out. If he turns it up, keep it 1 and 1 with Osgood to the end and roll with who's best going in.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Whether some like it or not, Hasek needs to keep playing. I'll repeat what I stated recently about this. Hasek, while he hasn't been dazzling, has been far from terrible like many have or will over-dramatize in here. Consider how the team has played in front of both goalies. Osgood has been rock solid and has probably stolen a game or two so far, but nobody in here can tell me with a straight face that the team has played as good in front of Hasek as they have in front of Osgood so far this season.

I agree with the assessment of the team not playing as well in front of Dom and they have in front of Ozzie. But I think there is a reason.

As I've said many times before, Dom doesn't play a style that instills confidence in his defenders. As a defenseman, you never know where he is going to be, what is going to happen with rebounds, if he will stay in the net or come to the redline to play the puck, ect....

With Ozzie, you get a solid positional goaltender that makes it easier for his team to play in front of him.

I think what we are seeing is a Detroit team that has more confidence in Ozzie than Dom. Their play certainly shows it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, with Dom and/or Ozzie in net, the Wings won't win the Cup. Neither goalie is strong enough to overcome the shortcomings of the rest of the squad.

[Offsides 21]

Now? Ozzie's been #1 for awhile now. Hmm...or maybe that's just me.

[Offsides 21]

Its pretty simple, Hasek isn't a backup, in any situation. If you bench Dom, you risk another "early" retirement.

Frankly, Osgood has proven nothing. It only matters in the playoffs and the last time he was a factor for us in the playoffs was 2000. Who ever is playing the best gets the call.

You basically just said Osgood. Except that you said also not Osgood. Which was confusing. Dom was a factor in us NOT winning last year, does that count?

It's DOM...the reason why we have him is so that he can supposedly make unsaveable saves when there are defensive breakdowns. I'm not asking him to stop every puck, but if he's not doing that then why exactly do we need him in the playoffs? If he is not doing Domlike awesomeness then simply put Ozzie > Dom. And everything reflects that right now.

If Dom gets unrusty and starts playing awesome again then he will prove he should get more games....and that he might be a force again. If he's not...it doesn't matter if he plays in the playoffs or not.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I'm hoping we FINALLY and SERIOUSLY address the "starting" goaltender issue after this game. Dom couldn't stop the first scrum goal. The others were ridiculus. The second goal looked weak as hell, the third he just let trickle on him, and the Meyer goal, though a rocket it was, please don't tell me you just let in 4 goals on 11 shots and in one period!? The Wings played horrible after that because they were deflated, you don't have a 2 goal lead turn to a 2 goal deficit in 10 minutes and keep your head up. Though Ozzie didn't face many shots, he had to make some great saves to make a comeback possible. Ozzie hasn't had a shakey game all season, whereas whenever I hear Hasek is starting I feel doubt creep in like an elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.

This isn't about the 90's and this isn't about "slow starts", we are nearing the 20th game of the season and Hasek has proved to be nothing but s***, carrying it over from the last game in the Western Conference finals last spring. Go with the hot goaltender.

And no, I don't care anymore about the logic that if you don't play Dom he won't get better. Past the 1/5 mark of the season with pathetic play like Dom has shown so far in contrast to the tremendous play of Ozzie, "s*** or get off the pot" time is about over. Every shot on goal tonite I expected to go in on Dom, he just looks shaky and the first Perron goal was just sad, and the biggest relief all night was after the 4th goal when Babs talked to an assistant and gave Ozzie the nod. I'm pretty sure Hasek still gets credited with the loss, since the game winner went in when he was between the pipes, right?

You basically just said Osgood. Except that you said also not Osgood. Which was confusing. Dom was a factor in us NOT winning last year, does that count?

It's DOM...the reason why we have him is so that he can supposedly make unsaveable saves when there are defensive breakdowns. I'm not asking him to stop every puck, but if he's not doing that then why exactly do we need him in the playoffs? If he is not doing Domlike awesomeness then simply put Ozzie > Dom. And everything reflects that right now.

THANK YOU When is Ozzie's play gonna be good enough and Dom's play going to be down right s***ty enough to finally consider Osgood the #1. "But Osgood once let in half ice shots", "Dom won 6 Vezina trophies".... is it 99? If so, I'm gonna party like it is.... hopefully my hangover is remedied by some Tylenol, little hair of the dog, and seeing CHRIS OSGOOD in goal

Whether some like it or not, Hasek needs to keep playing. I'll repeat what I stated recently about this. Hasek, while he hasn't been dazzling, has been far from terrible like many have or will over-dramatize in here. Consider how the team has played in front of both goalies. Osgood has been rock solid and has probably stolen a game or two so far, but nobody in here can tell me with a straight face that the team has played as good in front of Hasek as they have in front of Osgood so far this season.

Poor Hasek, he faced a whole 11 shots..... its a crying shame.....

[Packer487 3]

I know it's early and Dom is still "not 100%", but that was his worst game in a LONG time. 4 goals on 12 shots....

At least 2--and maybe 3--of which he had no chance on. If Ozzie had a game where he gave up 2 PPGs, another breakaway goal, and faced at least 8 odd man rushes, people would be looking to give him a hug and tell him "Well...thanks for trying your hardest, buddy"

Ozzie comes in and the Wings mount a sort-of comeback.

Because of anything he did or the fact that they finally got their heads out of their asses and started playing hockey? Goalie changes usually tend to send a wakeup call to the team.

My question is, How should the theorhetical 60/40 split be arranged now? IMO Ozzie is the better goalie.

For the first quarter of the season he has been. But if you think that's truly representative of their overall abilities, I just have to laugh.

Before I get all the "He's Dominik F'ing Hasek" and "He's always been a slow starter" posts let me just say...So what.

Soooo.....if he's a slow starter then it probably means that he's in the midst of a slow start? And that he'll probably improve significantly like he does every season?

If it were 1998 or even 2002 I would say " GO DOM GO!!!"

You do realize that in 2006 Dom nearly took this team to the Cup right? It's not like it's been 5 years since he last "Dominated". He was great last season.

But it is 2007 and Ozzie is the better goalie.

Because Lord knows 10 games does a season make. And no one ever improves throughout the course of a year (see Osgood, Chris circa 2006). I mean, if we were making decisions based on 10 games, then Jim Howard would probably be our backup right now since Osgood would be playing in the ECHL based on his play at the start of last season (and a good chunk of the year before).

If Vernon were here would you want him in net? Would your argument be "But he won a Conn Smythe and is a solid goaltender" or would your argument be "Mike Vernon is old and not in playing shape."

If Mike Vernon had nearly taken us to the Cup last year, then I'd be all for giving him more than 10 games to play through his struggles. But as it is, that's a ridiculously silly argument.

It is easy to remember the glory days of Dom

You mean like in last year's playoffs when he posted a 1.79, .923

and want those days back, but they are not coming...

How on earth could you possibly know that?

How many games are you willing to sacrifice to division and conference opponents who are clearly not as weak as they were in 02 just so Dom can hit his stride?

He's lost 3 games in regulation. It's not like he's tanking our season. We're still making the playoffs, we're still winning our division. Even with Hasek's 5-3-1 record (11 points out of a possible 18), we'd still be on pace for a 100 point season if you project it over 82 games. Not spectacular, but still in the playoffs. And that's assuming that he plays this "poorly" the rest of the year and doesn't improve. Which, quite honestly, is very unlikely

I say ride the faster horse and let the legend rest before he drops on you. I would rather have 2 healthy goalies and 1 bruised ego than just 1 healthy goalie come play-off time.

People were saying that about Brett Favre too.

Also I'd point out that Ozzie hasn't exactly been the model of perfect health over the past couple of years either. He's playing well, and I have no problem with suggesting that he get closer to 40% of the starts, or that we give him a little more playing time while he's on his hot streak. But if this team is going anywhere in the playoffs, it's going to be with Dominik Hasek. And before I get the "It's not 1997" anymore comment again, I'd remind you that Dom won as many playoff series last year as Osgood has since he skated around with the Stanley Cup--and that the latter hasn't won a series since 99-00.

He's playing really well right now, but Hasek is still the elite goalie on this team. And with the way he played last year--and throughout his entire freaking career--he deserves more than three regulation losses to work through his damn struggles.

Edit: Sorry about the formatting....not sure why it isn't accepting the "quote" tags.

Edited November 14, 2007 by Packer487

[b.shanafan14 733]

i wish he had looked for more money elsewhere, Osgood-Howard sounds better

[b.shanafan14 733]

Yeah we'll go into the playoffs riding Jimmy "I can't control my rebounds" Howard, that will work well with Neidermeyer and Perry camped out in the crease.

Hasek ain't the best at controlling rebound (or anything) these days either, but in Dom's case by the time the rebound gets to the opposing player's stick, Dom is already 3 feet out of goal, flat on his back.

[Wingfan191 2]

Dom needs to play like 5 or 6 in a row to get his groove back. He's been out of action for like 2 and a half weeks, gets one game in, then sits again??? That's poor goalie rotation. He wins the Columbus game, lets up 1 goal, has a day off before the Chicago game, yet we play Ozzie instead? Why? Because we lost twice already to them early in the season? That's a horrible reason. Hasek could've had 3 straight starts to at least get some play time in, but now he's played 1.6 games and we have 2 sets of back to backs coming up, meaning he's only getting in another 2 out of 4 games.

That's not going to help him. He should've played Sunday, today, and he SHOULD play Saturday. That would've given him 4 starts with gaps in between, there's no reason to assume he can't handle 4 measly starts in a row.

[interminded 1]

It's just one game people.

If we would demote goalies to the bench after one bad game or a lesser period... NHL history would be very different.

Brodeur, Luongo, Kipper... all three have been pulled already this season.

It happens.

Over the course of a 82 game season, s***ty games happen and even s***tier goals happen.

Happened to Dom, might happen to Ozzie to.

So let's be a little bit supportive.

We're fans right ?

[irishtemper14+25 11]

if the wings came back and won, i think the job would be ozzie's, but i still hope it is...i just think osgod is better than the dominator right now

[eva unit zero 271]

Dom needs to play like 5 or 6 in a row to get his groove back. He's been out of action for like 2 and a half weeks, gets one game in, then sits again??? That's poor goalie rotation. He wins the Columbus game, lets up 1 goal, has a day off before the Chicago game, yet we play Ozzie instead? Why? Because we lost twice already to them early in the season? That's a horrible reason. Hasek could've had 3 straight starts to at least get some play time in, but now he's played 1.6 games and we have 2 sets of back to backs coming up, meaning he's only getting in another 2 out of 4 games.

That's not going to help him. He should've played Sunday, today, and he SHOULD play Saturday. That would've given him 4 starts with gaps in between, there's no reason to assume he can't handle 4 measly starts in a row.

You are taking the 'blindly optimistic' point of view, I see.

Consider this; Mike Babcock has a red hot goalie playing every game with his starter injured. His starter has also been underperforming this season. When his starter gets back from injury, there are four games spaced apart. Do you play the goalie that hasn't looked good in all four games and hope he develops a rhythm, risking your hot backup going cold....or do you play him in half of them and hope that only one of those things (cold backup/no rhythm starter) or none happens?

If Osgood goes cold because he'll have only played basically two games in two weeks, and Hasek doesn't pick it up, what happens?

[interminded 1]

You are taking the 'blindly optimistic' point of view, I see.

Consider this; Mike Babcock has a red hot goalie playing every game with his starter injured. His starter has also been underperforming this season. When his starter gets back from injury, there are four games spaced apart. Do you play the goalie that hasn't looked good in all four games and hope he develops a rhythm, risking your hot backup going cold....or do you play him in half of them and hope that only one of those things (cold backup/no rhythm starter) or none happens?

If Osgood goes cold because he'll have only played basically two games in two weeks, and Hasek doesn't pick it up, what happens?

Well, that's the thing isn't it ?

Babcock needs to keep Ozzie hot, because he is playing really well lately.

On the other hand, he needs to get Dom back in shape, because even if Babcock wanted to.. Hasek is "useless" as a backup because he isn't the guy anymore to step in cold and perform without the risk of injuring himself.

Babcock has some tough choices to make I guess.

[The Noodle 39 14]

It was just one game... in 2002 Dom was crushed by his former team Buffalo and we went into a talspin there after.. but Dom and the wings got there crap together and won a cup. It's only one game everything will be fine with Hasek unless he gets injured. We have to keep playing Hasek so he can fully get into his groove and be ready for the playoffs. I love Ozzie and all but he just does not have the right frame of mind to be a starting goalie come playoff time and everyone knows that even if u are the biggest Ozzie fan! The man has only ever been good here in Detroit and he utterly collapsed for the Islanders and especially the Blues. Osgood has always been a tender little guy. Fans chant he sucks and get on him he collapses. WAY too much pressure for him here during the playoffs. But hey maybe with all of his experience he's changed. He may be solid for the rest of his career.. Roloson was not that great until his minnesota days and now is a star goalie for the oilers. He came on late and maybe Ozzie too never know.. But when u have Hasek on your team that other guy can sit lol.

Just one game and i hope Babcock does not sit Hasek for too long.. I'm a huge Wings fan but no Hasek in the playoffs IMO means no cup.

[norrisnick 1]

I would like to point out that this isn't just one game.

I would also like to point out that while Dom may be a slow starter, he has never started this slow. Given that he's not nearly as young or as good as he was back in the day, on what basis can we reasonably expect him to recover?

I would also like to address the issue of "the team is playing better in front of Osgood and sucking in front of Dom." If Dom can't overcome the play of the 18 guys in front of him, why are we putting ourselves through the mayhem of babysitting his groin and ego? What's the point of eating up $4M in cap space if the team has to be humming on all cylinders for him to be effective?

If the Wings can't win the Cup with Osgood in net, they won't win with Dom. That simple. Find a backup that can handle the backup duties (ie come into a game on short notice) and be done with it.