MLB Offseason Thread

[Guest DetroitIan]

Don't kid yourself. Cabrera has one of the worst gloves in either league. He has the range of an oak tree.

It's really obnoxious, this hangup on Inge that you have. For god's sake shut it. Inge is one of the hardest-working guys in the game and has one of the best attitudes, too. What did he do, step on your puppy? .236 (in ONE season - remember hit .253 in '06 and .261 in '05) can't be the only reason you hate him. Out with it, why are you so irrational about Brandon Inge?

First off, somehow you know he's a hard worker because he's good at defense? I mean, of course he's a fairly hard worker, he's a professional. You can work as hard as you want. But either you have it, or you don't. And when it comes to hitting the ball, he clearly doesn't. Second, you're definitely exaggerating about Cabrera's glove. He's not a horrible third baseman by any means. And he certainly makes up for it with his CONSISTENT great hitting. Unlike Inge, who had his production go down big time last season. And even the years in which you "brag" about Inge's batting averages, they are still less than respectable. The guy can't even crack the .270s during any year? Thats downright pathetic. I sorta liked him when he hit something like 28 homeruns. But then his production goes down literally 50% when it comes to homeruns(the one thing I liked about him other than his defense). And that I can admit. Inge is a great defensive 3rd baseman. But my God, how many times can someone deal with him CONSTANTLY not hitting the ball? Defense or not, you better be able to bring alot more than a .236 average to the table. Or atleast hit for power(like he used to). But now he's basically worthless as a hitter. I can't even count how many times we needed a hit from this guy, just a hit. And what does he do? Never comes through. Maybe it's just me(and thats fine) but I'll take a superior hitting and mediocre defensive skills, over superior defensive skills and no f-ing bat whatsoever. Waste of an out is what Inge is. And after rooting my heart out time and time again for this guy to make some sort of contact, It just came to the point where I wanted him out. But I was able to somewhat tolerate him because of the defense he brings. But now hearing that he wants to leave. I say good riddance. Go somewhere else and swing at the air. I'll be happy with a guy hitting in the .320s and hitting 35+ homeruns. So if by step on my puppy, you mean, being a liability in the lineup(offensively) then yes, he certainly did step on my puppy. And im very glad he's on his way out of Detroit.

[rwfan007 18]

you feel better now?

[BlakChamber 8]

So he can start. Oh, and you can't trade draft picks in baseball. Best guess: A middle reliever with a pulse and a B-level prospect is what we'll get.

That sounds about right. We're not going to get a whole lot for Inge.

First off, somehow you know he's a hard worker because he's good at defense? I mean, of course he's a fairly hard worker, he's a professional. You can work as hard as you want. But either you have it, or you don't. And when it comes to hitting the ball, he clearly doesn't. Second, you're definitely exaggerating about Cabrera's glove. He's not a horrible third baseman by any means. And he certainly makes up for it with his CONSISTENT great hitting. Unlike Inge, who had his production go down big time last season. And even the years in which you "brag" about Inge's batting averages, they are still less than respectable. The guy can't even crack the .270s during any year? Thats downright pathetic. I sorta liked him when he hit something like 28 homeruns. But then his production goes down literally 50% when it comes to homeruns(the one thing I liked about him other than his defense). And that I can admit. Inge is a great defensive 3rd baseman. But my God, how many times can someone deal with him CONSTANTLY not hitting the ball? Defense or not, you better be able to bring alot more than a .236 average to the table. Or atleast hit for power(like he used to). But now he's basically worthless as a hitter. I can't even count how many times we needed a hit from this guy, just a hit. And what does he do? Never comes through. Maybe it's just me(and thats fine) but I'll take a superior hitting and mediocre defensive skills, over superior defensive skills and no f-ing bat whatsoever. Waste of an out is what Inge is. And after rooting my heart out time and time again for this guy to make some sort of contact, It just came to the point where I wanted him out. But I was able to somewhat tolerate him because of the defense he brings. But now hearing that he wants to leave. I say good riddance. Go somewhere else and swing at the air. I'll be happy with a guy hitting in the .320s and hitting 35+ homeruns. So if by step on my puppy, you mean, being a liability in the lineup(offensively) then yes, he certainly did step on my puppy. And im very glad he's on his way out of Detroit.

Why do you hate paragraphs? What did they ever do to you?

[betterREDthandead 58]

First off, somehow you know he's a hard worker because he's good at defense? I mean, of course he's a fairly hard worker, he's a professional. You can work as hard as you want. But either you have it, or you don't. And when it comes to hitting the ball, he clearly doesn't. Second, you're definitely exaggerating about Cabrera's glove. He's not a horrible third baseman by any means. And he certainly makes up for it with his CONSISTENT great hitting. Unlike Inge, who had his production go down big time last season. And even the years in which you "brag" about Inge's batting averages, they are still less than respectable. The guy can't even crack the .270s during any year? Thats downright pathetic. I sorta liked him when he hit something like 28 homeruns. But then his production goes down literally 50% when it comes to homeruns(the one thing I liked about him other than his defense). And that I can admit. Inge is a great defensive 3rd baseman. But my God, how many times can someone deal with him CONSTANTLY not hitting the ball? Defense or not, you better be able to bring alot more than a .236 average to the table. Or atleast hit for power(like he used to). But now he's basically worthless as a hitter. I can't even count how many times we needed a hit from this guy, just a hit. And what does he do? Never comes through. Maybe it's just me(and thats fine) but I'll take a superior hitting and mediocre defensive skills, over superior defensive skills and no f-ing bat whatsoever. Waste of an out is what Inge is. And after rooting my heart out time and time again for this guy to make some sort of contact, It just came to the point where I wanted him out. But I was able to somewhat tolerate him because of the defense he brings. But now hearing that he wants to leave. I say good riddance. Go somewhere else and swing at the air. I'll be happy with a guy hitting in the .320s and hitting 35+ homeruns. So if by step on my puppy, you mean, being a liability in the lineup(offensively) then yes, he certainly did step on my puppy. And im very glad he's on his way out of Detroit.

Two things:

One, do you know what the difference is between hitting .250 (roughly Inge's career average as a third baseman) and .235 (roughly what he hit last year)? Nine hits. Nine. Less than one hit every other week. So it's fairly irrational to hate him for hitting .236 if you can tolerate .250.

Two, I'm not exaggerating when I say Cabrera is absolutely brutal with the glove. His 23 errors were tied for second-worst in the league. He fielded just over 71% of balls in his "zone", worse than all but one. League average is about 77%. And his range factor is well below average as well. Sometimes things like fielding percentage are misleading, but there isn't a single fielding metric that won't tell you Cabrera is a bottom-of-the-barrel fielder. Cabrera's a fantastic hitter and I love having him in the lineup. And he'll provide the Tigers more runs than he'll give up with his glove, obviously. But don't kid yourself thinking he's a passable fielder. He's not.

[dallas27 7]

Two things:

One, do you know what the difference is between hitting .250 (roughly Inge's career average as a third baseman) and .235 (roughly what he hit last year)? Nine hits. Nine. Less than one hit every other week. So it's fairly irrational to hate him for hitting .236 if you can tolerate .250.

Two, I'm not exaggerating when I say Cabrera is absolutely brutal with the glove. His 23 errors were tied for second-worst in the league. He fielded just over 71% of balls in his "zone", worse than all but one. League average is about 77%. And his range factor is well below average as well. Sometimes things like fielding percentage are misleading, but there isn't a single fielding metric that won't tell you Cabrera is a bottom-of-the-barrel fielder. Cabrera's a fantastic hitter and I love having him in the lineup. And he'll provide the Tigers more runs than he'll give up with his glove, obviously. But don't kid yourself thinking he's a passable fielder. He's not.

I think I just heard a bell

[Guest DetroitIan]

So it's fairly irrational to hate him for hitting .236 if you can tolerate .250.

Yes, but the only reason I was able to tolerate Inge when he was hitting .250, was because of his power that he had. Hitting almost 30 bombs kept me in the Inge camp. But when his power production dropped off literally 50%, there was no reason for me to tolerate his horrible batting average anymore.

As for Cabrera, I really didn't know he had that many errors. Especially bottom of the league. But the good thing is, not only does he make up for it with his dominant bat, but he's only 24. So he'll most likely improve his defesnive game somewhat.

Although I will say, I do hope Inge does well somewhere. But he damn well better hit alot more than .236 and just 14 bombs. Cause his great defense is only gonna keep him in a lineup for so long.

That sounds about right. We're not going to get a whole lot for Inge.

Why do you hate paragraphs? What did they ever do to you?

Hey man, I was in an intense rant. The enter button didnt exist to me at that point. lol

Edited December 10, 2007 by DetroitIan

[JROLLA 0]

Timo Perez resigns. Link

[Guest DetroitIan]

Timo Perez resigns. Link

TIMOOOOOOO!!! Great re-signing by the Tigers. Even though he won't get alot of opportunities to start, when he does, he makes the most of it. Great guy to have in case of an injury.

[JROLLA 0]

TIMOOOOOOO!!! Great re-signing by the Tigers. Even though he won't get alot of opportunities to start, when he does, he makes the most of it. Great guy to have in case of an injury.

Yes very good pick-up.

[rwfan007 18]

Tejada traded to the Astros for 5 players

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3151849

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Rowand Signs with Giants

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=225024&hubname=

Cubs get Fukudome - wonder if he will be any good?

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=224993&hubname=mlb

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I wouldnt be surprised to hear Miguel Tejada's name as one of the 60-80 steroid linked players named tomorrow....just a gut feeling. Im extremely interested in the findings, i cant wait!!! Hell we could even hear some current and former Tigers named....the obvious being Pudge.

Even Carlos Guillen ive had some small doubts about before...

[BlakChamber 8]

I wouldnt be surprised to hear Miguel Tejada's name as one of the 60-80 steroid linked players named tomorrow....just a gut feeling. Im extremely interested in the findings, i cant wait!!! Hell we could even hear some current and former Tigers named....the obvious being Pudge.

Even Carlos Guillen ive had some small doubts about before...

The only current Tigers I'd be worried about being on the list would be Pudge and Sheff. Pudge may have been using in 04 when he first came to the Tigers, but didn't he slim down for 05? And I highly doubt Sheff was using last year.

Still, it should be interesting to see who's on the list. I'm going to be highly suspicions if (A) there's no big names on the list and/or (B) no Red Sox.

[timothy1997 0]

Still, it should be interesting to see who's on the list. I'm going to be highly suspicions if (A) there's no big names on the list and/or (B) no Red Sox.

I am looking for only one real name. Barry Bonds. This could be the spark that gets Bonds discredited for what has achieved in the past few years.

[Sergei Fedorov91 24]

I have a bad feeling, keeping my fingers crossed however that Miguel Caberra is going to be on the list.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I have a bad feeling, keeping my fingers crossed however that Miguel Caberra is going to be on the list.

I doubt we'll see Cabrera. His performance has been too consistent and steady. Carlos Guillen is a guy I worry about. Light-hitting shortstop suddenly turns into a masher. Hmmm. I hope he's not on the list. And Maggs, because of all the injuries - guys who've been hurt are prime steroid candidates.

[dallas27 7]

Pudge may have been using in 04 when he first came to the Tigers, but didn't he slim down for 05?

Anytime you drop that MUCH weight they would may be considered for use of steroids. Well previous use.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Quick search of "Tigers" in the full text of the report reveals the following names, most of which are a blast from the way past. Warning! Nothing earthshattering is here.

Mark Carreon

Phil Hiatt

Hal Morris

Rondell White

Nook Logan

Fernando Vina

Gregg Zaun

Some other names of note on the users' list, pretty much all of them fingered by the former Mets' clubhouse boy, Kirk Radomski. Some heavier users than others. Segui seems to have been something of a distributor of the stuff too, given how often his name is mentioned in conjunction with others.

Roger Clemens

Andy Pettitte

David Segui

Chuck Knoblauch

David Justice

Glenallen Hill

Denny Neagle

Miguel Tejada

Paul Lo Duca

Kevin Brown

Eric Gagne

Also interesting - "The Players' Association was largely uncooperative."

[Lou_Siffer 1]

The only current Tigers I'd be worried about being on the list would be Pudge and Sheff. Pudge may have been using in 04 when he first came to the Tigers, but didn't he slim down for 05? And I highly doubt Sheff was using last year.

Still, it should be interesting to see who's on the list. I'm going to be highly suspicions if (A) there's no big names on the list and/or (B) no Red Sox.

Yeah, in Pudge's second season is when he drastically slimmed down (and ended up resembling a bobble head!). Even though he's not in the report he's one of those guys i'll always think we'll hear his name eventually.

I knew Tejada's ass would be on there, thank god we never gave in to the idea of trading Bonderman for him before. I think we even tried to sign him the year he went to Baltimore if im not mistaken....but he didnt want to come here. Eric Gagne also isnt surprising.

Nook Logan mustve got ripped off when he got his!

[eva unit zero 271]

I doubt we'll see Cabrera. His performance has been too consistent and steady. Carlos Guillen is a guy I worry about. Light-hitting shortstop suddenly turns into a masher. Hmmm. I hope he's not on the list. And Maggs, because of all the injuries - guys who've been hurt are prime steroid candidates.

Except Guillen's increased production came with a shift to a park that had a deeper left field and a shallower right field, as well as a steep increase in at bats and more notably, hits.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

I thought this was interesting;

'The Mitchell report detailed an e-mail from Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein to scout Mark Delpiano on Nov. 1, 2006, which said, "Have you done any digging on Gagne? I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What do you hear on his medical?"

Delpiano's response in Mitchell's report reads as follows: "Some digging on Gagne and steroids is the issue. He had a checkered medical past throughout his career including Minor Leagues. [He] lacks the poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body and re-invent self. What made him a tenacious closer was the max effort-plus stuff. ... Mentality without the weapons and without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce-back durability and the ability to throw average while allowing the changeup to play as it once did. ... Personally, durability (or lack of) will follow Gagne." '

direct link http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article....sp&c_id=bos

Sure explains Gagne's fall from dominance after 2004...

[rwfan007 18]

SP Haren delt to 'Zona, CP Valverde dealt to Houston

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3155417

3B Lamb signs with the Twins

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3155479

SS Eckstein signs with the Jays

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153906

CF Edmonds dealt by Cards to the Padres

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3155811

Edited December 15, 2007 by rwfan007

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I cant believe the A's dealt Haren. He was such a promising pitcher.

[BlakChamber 8]

That's the Billy Beane way to do it, find talent or players other teams don't want and then get rid of that player when his value is high. I'm not sure when Haren would be a free agent, but there's no doubt that the A's wouldn't be able to afford him.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Yep, and not coincidentally, thats how Oakland got Dan Haren in the first place. (by trading Mark Mulder to StL). From Beane's standpoint he's thinking why should i keep one star on a team thats most likely not going to win, when i can get multiple players in return for him and try to build a contender 2 or 3 years down the road.