MLB Offseason Thread

[dallas27 7]

Just looked it up, apparently the 3 minor leaguers are Dallas Trahern, Eugelio De La Cruz, and Burke Badenhop. Willis had better f***in return to stud form because we now officially have nothing whatsoever but Porcello for pitching prospects.

We officially have NO FARM team(s) whatsoever. I'll eat my crow but when Maybin wins several gold gloves and batting titles I'll know where to come to boast. I would go as far as to say that Miller could win a Cy Young but I won't. He could though. Mid to high 90's fastball and two soon to be nasty breaking balls. Oh, and he's left handed. I'm just going to add that the win now theory blows. You already have a team that, if they play like they SHOULD, could easily be in the WS. Why you don't sit on two authentic studs and a good farm team and wait it out I question.

[Guest DetroitIan]

You just stated the obvious, thanks. You just said that Maybin and MIller won't be stars for a few years and that Cabrera and Willis are older and that they are huge improvements on what we gave up. THAT MAY BE THE CASE NOW. We won't know if they are huge improvements for another couple years when all of them are in their prime (and when Maybin and Miller are ML ready). As I said I may be the lone ranger but this may come back and bite them in the ass a couple years down the road. Especially when you can start converting Maybin to play right once Mags (who is 33) starts to fade out (which will be in a couple years).

Looks like he said Maybin and Miller won't even be stars in a few years. So im guessing your reply doesnt really apply to what he meant. And actually, I agree. I don't see Maybin or Miller being all stars in their career. When we just got two guys that arent that much older, yet they are already established all-stars. Beautiful deal right there.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

We officially have NO FARM team(s) whatsoever. I'll eat my crow but when Maybin wins several gold gloves and batting titles I'll know where to come to boast. I would go as far as to say that Miller could win a Cy Young but I won't. He could though. Mid to high 90's fastball and two soon to be nasty breaking balls. Oh, and he's left handed. I'm just going to add that the win now theory blows. You already have a team that, if they play like they SHOULD, could easily be in the WS. Why you don't sit on two authentic studs and a good farm team and wait it out I question.

The Maybin part i can handle losing...because Cabrera is just so damn good himself. The chances of Maybin turning out better than Cabrera are probably pretty small...thats a risk i can live with. But to fork over Miller....man, that blows. Willis has been great at times in his short career sure...but fact remains he hasnt been any better than Nate Robertson the past 2 seasons....actually Nate's been slightly better. Thats concerning.

[dallas27 7]

Looks like he said Maybin and Miller won't even be stars in a few years. So im guessing your reply doesnt really apply to what he meant. And actually, I agree. I don't see Maybin or Miller being all stars in their career. When we just got two guys that arent that much older, yet they are already established all-stars. Beautiful deal right there.

I read it wrong. Sorry. And they are much older. 3-4 years older and that is A LOT in baseball. 3-4 years means 3-4 years in the minors honing their skills.

And what are you basing your claim of them never being all stars on, along with RWF?

[rwfan007 18]

We don't need Willis to be an ace, he is the #3 starter at best here, behind Justin and Bondo. With this offense that we have now, all he needs to do, all any of our pitchers need to do, is keep us in the game. As long as our rotation gives us a solid 5-6 innings and keeps the opposing hitters to 3-5 runs, we have a legitimate shot at winning the ball game. Comerica Park is a pitcher in itself. It is so big, that a pitcher pitching here will give up less home runs than he would in another park. We just need a solid rotation, they do not have to be stellar.

i never said anything about maybin and miller not being all stars. They will probably turn out great, but 24 and 26 for Cabrera and Willis is not old age in baseball, they still have 10-15 years left in them, knock on wood, and we know they are good now, they will help us now, and assuming we sign them to a mid-range length deal, they will continue to help us. We simply do not know what Maybin and Miller will turn out as, so we traded uncertainty in the future for legitimate success now.

Edited December 5, 2007 by rwfan007

[Lou_Siffer 1]

We don't need Willis to be an ace, he is the #3 starter at best here, behind Justin and Bondo. With this offense that we have now, all he needs to do, all any of our pitchers need to do, is keep us in the game. As long as our rotation gives us a solid 5-6 innings and keeps the opposing hitters to 3-5 runs, we have a legitimate shot at winning the ball game. Comerica Park is a pitcher in itself. It is so big, that a pitcher pitching here will give up less home runs than he would in another park. We just need a solid rotation, they do not have to be stellar.

A solid 5-6 innings with this pen we currently have is not going to cut it! Who the hell are they going to pass the ball off to?! And I disagree, Willis had better be bringin' it as a great #2 starter considering what we gave up..

I have such a problem with trading everything away like this and still not having addressed our #1 weakness that cost us so many games last year.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Lou_Siffer

[dallas27 7]

By RWF I meant RedWingsForever. Sorry for the confusion.

And it's not uncertainty in Maybin and Miller. High draft picks in baseball don't turn out to be busts. This isn't football. Scouting in baseball is unlike any other sport out there. Unless it's the Wings. That is the only exception.

Edited December 5, 2007 by dallas27

[rwfan007 18]

so now all we need to do now is get some pen help, who do we have in there now? I saw that we made a pen move today... Denny Bautista from the Rockies for Jose Capellan. Not sure who that is...

So:

Seay

Rodney

Jones

Rapada

Vasquez

Tata

Miner

McBride

Grilli

Durbin

Byrdak

Bazardo

Bautista

yeah, we need some help here...

[Lou_Siffer 1]

so now all we need to do now is get some pen help, who do we have in there now? I saw that we made a pen move today... Denny Bautista from the Rockies for Jose Capellan. Not sure who that is...

Bautista is just the latest run of the mill guy in our revolving door bullpen. Nothing good with him. This pen looks even worse on paper than i originally thought! Not one reliable stopper on the entire list...

[rwfan007 18]

yeah, as I was writing that list I thought, where is a good one? We need some kind of talent there or it wont matter how many runs we get.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Looks like things are heating up in the Sox-Twins trade talks for Santana. Apparently they have requested Lester's medical records.

*If the Sox land Santana, who is the better team, Boston or Detroit

Detroit Tigers

1. CF - Grandersen

2. 2B - Polanco

3. 3B - Cabrerra

4. RF - Maggs

5. DH - Sheffield

6. 1B - Guillen

7. SS - Renteria

8. C - Pudge

9. LF - Jones/Thames

#1 Justin Verlander

#2 Jeremy Bonderman

#3 Dontrelle Willis

#4 Kenny Rogers

#5 Nate Robertson

CL - Todd Jones

Boston Red Sox

1. 2B Dustin Pedrioa

2. 1B Kevin Youkilis

3. DH David Ortiz

4. LF Manny Ramirez

5. 3B Mike Lowell

6. RF J.D. Drew

7. CF Jacoby Ellsbury

8. C Jason Varitek

9. SS Julio Lugo

#1 Johan Santana

#2 Josh Beckett

#3 Dice-K

#4 Curt Schilling

#5 Tim Wakefield

CL - Jonathan Papelbon

Thats a good match-up huh? I'd give the edge to the Sox in the pitching department, but the Tigers line-up looks deadly. Plus the fact that the Santana deal isn't even done yet the edge obviously goes to the Tigers, but damn - those are two mighty fine looking lineups.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Bostons pitching was good enough already, but if they get Santana, holy!

[Guest DetroitIan]

I read it wrong. Sorry. And they are much older. 3-4 years older and that is A LOT in baseball. 3-4 years means 3-4 years in the minors honing their skills.

And what are you basing your claim of them never being all stars on, along with RWF?

Honestly, I just havent seen anything really that special in his game(Miller that is). And we havent really got to see enough of Maybin. Out of all the 100s and 100s of players out there, what are the odds that a particular player becomes a star? The odds are against that. Sure its possible. Just not likely. As for Cabrera and Willis, they are already proven players. And are not that much older. Amazing upgrade really. Cause even if Miller and Maybin improve their game in the next few seasons, chances are they still wont even be as good as Cabrera and Willis. And like I said, anything is possible. But odds are, we got the best of this trade by far.

Edited December 5, 2007 by DetroitIan

[betterREDthandead 58]

We don't need Willis to be an ace, he is the #3 starter at best here, behind Justin and Bondo. With this offense that we have now, all he needs to do, all any of our pitchers need to do, is keep us in the game. As long as our rotation gives us a solid 5-6 innings and keeps the opposing hitters to 3-5 runs, we have a legitimate shot at winning the ball game.

For what the Tigers gave up, Willis had better be much better than that. No, he doesn't need to be the ace, that's what Verlander is for, but he must - and this is non-negotiable - put up a minimum of 14 wins with an ERA below 4.00. And he should be pitching at least into the 7th if not the 8th on some days. Willis is why this trade is such a big risk. But Dombrowski oughta be commended for having the balls to do it. It's not a dumb risk, not like trying to pay Juan Gonzalez $115 million, but it's a big one. But it could pay off HUGE. It's not improbable that Willis returns to 2005 form pitching in Comerica Park. And if he does, the rotation is pure gold.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Looks like things are heating up in the Sox-Twins trade talks for Santana. Apparently they have requested Lester's medical records.

*If the Sox land Santana, who is the better team, Boston or Detroit

Detroit Tigers

1. CF - Grandersen

2. 2B - Polanco

3. 3B - Cabrerra

4. RF - Maggs

5. DH - Sheffield

6. 1B - Guillen

7. SS - Renteria

8. C - Pudge

9. LF - Jones/Thames

#1 Justin Verlander

#2 Jeremy Bonderman

#3 Dontrelle Willis

#4 Kenny Rogers

#5 Nate Robertson

CL - Todd Jones

Boston Red Sox

1. 2B Dustin Pedrioa

2. 1B Kevin Youkilis

3. DH David Ortiz

4. LF Manny Ramirez

5. 3B Mike Lowell

6. RF J.D. Drew

7. CF Jacoby Ellsbury

8. C Jason Varitek

9. SS Julio Lugo

#1 Johan Santana

#2 Josh Beckett

#3 Dice-K

#4 Curt Schilling

#5 Tim Wakefield

CL - Jonathan Papelbon

Thats a good match-up huh? I'd give the edge to the Sox in the pitching department, but the Tigers line-up looks deadly. Plus the fact that the Santana deal isn't even done yet the edge obviously goes to the Tigers, but damn - those are two mighty fine looking lineups.

IMO not just Boston, but no team in the majors can match up to our dominant lineup. Our lineup is now totally unreal. Our lineup was bad ass last season, and now add on 3 all stars in Renteria, Wilis and Cabrera. Wow....thats all I can say, lol. But Boston definitely has the edge in pitching. The only way we can match that is if Schilling loses is stuff next season. Otherwise, a Detroit/Boston playoff series would be a battle for the ages.

[Kp-Wings 3]

It's really disappointing to see the Tigers give up Miller. I mean, this guy has so much potential that hasn't even been nearly tapped into yet.

Hopefully Miller stays in the NL and doesn't come back to haunt us anytime soon. I can see him being the guy to do so. He's got so much talent.

On a better note, you have to give up to get, in which the Tigers certainly did. Wilis and Cabrera are two great additions to this team, and the lineup is looking amazing for the start of next season. We got Rogers locked up now, and now bringing in those two makes it even better, and hopefully everyone stays healthy in the offseason. Really looking forward to opening day already.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

It's not a dumb risk, not like trying to pay Juan Gonzalez $115 million, but it's a big one.

That was one of the worst days of my life for sporting news!

And of course September 1, 2007

Still kind of bummed Maybin is gone, but if we get a ring because of this deal I really could care less.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

We officially have NO FARM team(s) whatsoever. I'll eat my crow but when Maybin wins several gold gloves and batting titles I'll know where to come to boast. I would go as far as to say that Miller could win a Cy Young but I won't. He could though. Mid to high 90's fastball and two soon to be nasty breaking balls. Oh, and he's left handed. I'm just going to add that the win now theory blows. You already have a team that, if they play like they SHOULD, could easily be in the WS. Why you don't sit on two authentic studs and a good farm team and wait it out I question.

The farm team is not going to win the World Series. Obviously the Tigers dont feel the team is good enough to win now. Detroits hitters are getting older. Sure they could wait until Maybin and Miller develop but by that time you can count on Polanco, Shef, Mags, and Pudge being gone. Then your stuck with one or two stars in the lineup. You make this trade now and you give yourself one of the best lineups in baseball. You get a chance to aquire one of the top young hitters in the game for a prospect who has proven squat so far you had better take that deal or get fired. The Tigers are no longer a rebuilding team looking for future stars in 4 years. They are a team that is looking for that one final piece. Like Sheed for the Pistons, Hasek in 02, and Shanahan in 97. Besides Maybin and Miller are going to Florida. That means if they get good there is no chance they are kept in Florida and thus giving the Tigers chances to re-acquire them.

[Sergei Fedorov91 24]

Maybin at best scenario is Carbbera in a few years and Miguel is basically A-rod at 25...

[Guest DetroitIan]

Maybin at best scenario is Carbbera in a few years and Miguel is basically A-rod at 25...

And that may even be a stretch. I tend to have doubts that in a few years, Maybin is able to hit .320+, 30+ homeruns and 115+ RBIs at the major league level. In fact, I would definitely be willing to bet against it. Feels good to have a guy like Cabrera, who has already proved he can play like that year after year. A 24 year old and he's already a 4 time all-star??? That is insane. I can't wait to see this team in action.

[BlakChamber 8]

I understand being upset about losing Maybin and Miller, but this wasn't a case of trading prospects for other prospects. This was a case of trading prospects for proven talent. You can't predict the future and know what's going to happen in Maybin and Miller's careers. Baseball (and the rest of the sports world) is filled with guys who were supposed to be the next MVP or Cy Young winner, and never did anything in their career.

And besides, the Tigs traded them to the Marlins. All we have to do is wait until they become good players, and the Marlins will unload them.

[timothy1997 0]

Just looked it up, apparently the 3 minor leaguers are Dallas Trahern, Eugelio De La Cruz, and Burke Badenhop. Willis had better f***in return to stud form because we now officially have nothing whatsoever but Porcello for pitching prospects.

If Randy Smith was still the GM, then yeah..i would be worried. Under Smith the minor league cupboard was always bare. With DD, they have brought tons of talent to the minor leagues and I have no doubt they will do the same. Also with Porcello, doesnt that addition make Miller expendable. We already got a stud pitcher in the minors grooming for the big stage. Did we really need 2?

so now all we need to do now is get some pen help, who do we have in there now? I saw that we made a pen move today... Denny Bautista from the Rockies for Jose Capellan. Not sure who that is...

So:

Seay

Rodney

Jones

Rapada

Vasquez

Tata

Miner

McBride

Grilli

Durbin

Byrdak

Bazardo

Bautista

yeah, we need some help here...

Don't be surprised if the Tigers don't focus on that from here on out til spring training. Dotel and Hawkins are rumored to be coming here and are a welcome addition to the pen, that desperately needs it.

Besides Maybin and Miller are going to Florida. That means if they get good there is no chance they are kept in Florida and thus giving the Tigers chances to re-acquire them.

And besides, the Tigs traded them to the Marlins. All we have to do is wait until they become good players, and the Marlins will unload them.

Exactly!

Forget "Who's your Tiger?", the Tigers new slogan is "Detroit: New York Lite"

[BlakChamber 8]

Also with Porcello, doesnt that addition make Miller expendable. We already got a stud pitcher in the minors grooming for the big stage. Did we really need 2?

Forget "Who's your Tiger?", the Tigers new slogan is "Detroit: New York Lite"

Well, you can never have too many stud pitchers.

And Boston is New York Lite, not Detroit

[betterREDthandead 58]

Forget "Who's your Tiger?", the Tigers new slogan is "Detroit: New York Lite"

Screw that, the Yankees new slogan is "Yankees: Detroit Lite"

This was a case of trading prospects for proven talent.

Proven young talent. Best part is these guys are just starting to enter the prime of their careers. The Tigers didn't even mortgage the future for this. This isn't them trading for a 38-year-old slugger and hoping there's a couple good years left.

I really love how this trade went down. That's how trades should be. Completely out of left field. I think I might have read one rumor on Sunday or Monday that said the Tigers were talking Cabrera but it was more or less shot down in the same paragraph so I paid it no mind. Then BAM! trade. Much more fun than waiting around two weeks like the Santana sweepstakes.

And speaking of Santana, does anyone think the Tigers oughta take Drew Sharp's advice and offer up Bonderman for Santana? Another big risk, and would probably require thinning out the prospect ranks even more, but wouldn't the Tigers' rotation look extra nasty with a side order of holy s***?

Oh, one more thing. If you're not already fired up about having Cabrera, this should do it. And if this doesn't do the trick, you're a Cleveland fan, or comatose. From baseballreference.com.....

Similar Batters through Age 24

Compare Stats

1. Hank Aaron (950) *

2. Ken Griffey (917)

3. Frank Robinson (911) *

4. Orlando Cepeda (910) *

5. Hal Trosky (902)

6. Joe Medwick (894) *

7. Al Kaline (893) *

8. Mickey Mantle (892) *

9. Andruw Jones (882)

10. Vladimir Guerrero (879)

Most Similar by Age

Click on C to compare their stats

Mouse over numbers to view names

21. Hank Aaron (956) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

22. Hank Aaron (955) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

23. Hank Aaron (959) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

24. Hank Aaron (950) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

[Guest DetroitIan]

Screw that, the Yankees new slogan is "Yankees: Detroit Lite"

Proven young talent. Best part is these guys are just starting to enter the prime of their careers.

Exactly. That's the icing on the cake. Cause even though these guys are already proven, they still have potential to get even better. Which is just crazy. This is truly an epic era of Tigers baseball.