All "Let's Lynch Holland" threads merged

[2probert4 8]

Stupid Thread!!

Holland did the right move.

WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER SCORER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we needed sandpaper. We got sandpaper Stuart, D-mac.

Geeeeezzzzz.

Close this thread please.

I really hope that people aren't thinking McCarty is going to be this secondary scorer.

[Superman54 91]

HOLLAND HOLLAND HOLLAND

[Wing Across The Pond 196]

I think Holland did alright... I just think people are still at him for the Bertuzzi thing last year (I myself was never a fan of Bert) but Stuart is a good get-guy. I mean apart from the now annoyingly infamous Hossa trade... what over big trades were there this year? I mean there were trades, but not many big ones.

I think Holland came off good.

[savaking72 0]

Aren't the King's in last place? Why would you go for anyone on that team? The person who initialized this post said Stuart has a -16 ranking. What is going through Holland's mind? Oh, man...Brad Stuart! No one would suspect us getting him. Geeze, our blue line is going to be deep now! Brad Stuart leading the Grand Rapids gang would be awesome for the 2 weeks that they in town. What an acquisition! I bet his panties were all wet setting this one up.

Hello Holland...Why is ol' 37 STILL on this team?

[savaking72 0]

I hate to back peddle, but I've been thinking...maybe I shouldn't jump ship on Holland so quick. I'll give Stuart a chance before I thrash Holland.

[HudlerRULES 0]

Not so sure the word "LYNCH" should be used in a comedic manor. I mean it does mean more than the MOD who merged these meant it to mean. Kinda like a racial slur right... if not then people wouldn't get so mad over saying someone should be lynched. Therefore it is racist

[Barrie 900]

Maybe if people are looking for someone to ***** and moan about, you should take it out on Sundin. I'm sure if he waived his no-trade, he would be on his way to Detroit at this moment to meet his new team when they return from a Western Canadian road trip.

Here I can help get you started, "Screw Sundin!", "What a Tool!"

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Definitely liked the Stuart addition, he was the defenseman i wanted. I'll credit ol' Kenny for that one. But the forwards were my main issue going in, there were at least 2 moves that needed to be made there. No size, no scorer, no physical gritty winger, (sorry im not counting DMac who i feel is washed up)...nada.

Its as if Holland doesnt have the pulse of trading in the cap era. He saves cap room for moves that many of us knew he wouldnt pull the trigger on. He still tries to get the significant better end of a deal like when we were in the non cap era and he held all the cards, that counter offer i read of Kronwall for Campbell AND STAFFORD was an absolute joke if that was for real. If thats the type of deal he's waiting for, I dont what to say...

Edited February 26, 2008 by Lou_Siffer

[Grittzkey 1]

Since we were giving away draft picls

i would of preferred to trade our 6th for either Simon or Lapointe..

we needed a physical pressence..

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I'm gonna give it a shot to see if some people will actually listen to some reason...

There is a fine line between being passionate about your team winning/losing and just flat out going overboard being obnoxious, and from the looks of things today from some of the threads that were created, I think some people have gone way beyond the obnoxious level with this team and Ken Holland.

I'm all for constructive criticism and the like, this team certainly wasn't "perfect" even when threy were winning more often than not, but to think that Holland is absolute garbage or it is a guarantee that the Wings are steamrolled in the first round is just being ridiculously overdramatic. There is still aways to go before the playoffs start in April and this team getting healthy again.

a. This team is injured right now. It's not a cop-out for an excuse, it is just a fact. When your top 4 defensemen are out, it is harder to win games.

b. When this team was healthy with pretty much nearly the identical roster they have now, they were consistently winning. I don't see why that cannot happen in the playoffs if/when they are happy again.

c. 1 or 2 big names acquired at a trade deadline doesn't guarantee you a Cup. They may definitely be significant factors, BUT AN ENTIRE TEAM WINS A STANLEY CUP. TOGETHER.

d. Some people think trades can instantly happen like on their PlayStation. Maybe some players don't want to come play for the Wings. Maybe all parties aren't satisfied with what each are willing to offer. I'm no general manager of a sports franchise or business but I tihnk it's safe to assume it's no walk in the park. It's pretty darned easy to play armchair GM in a sports forum drinking beer AFTER THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. Doesn't seem so easy to me when you are the one who has to make the decisions in real-time, not after real-time.

It seems like some people in here are most comfortable when their heart rate is over 200 and they are either pissed off or thinking that the world is going to end when it comes to the Red Wings, and rubbing that notion in people's faces. That's not passion or caring about your team in my opinion. That's somewhat on a level of being miserable and depressed and angry a majority of a day. Maybe I'm going a bit too far but you know what I mean. I guess I don't get it, but I'd rather not being just completely angry or down in the dumps if this team isn't quite 100% "perfect".

[Grim 5]

everytime Babs is forced to stick longterm with Homer-Dats-Zets it exhausts our top PP unit. worsened so during the grind of a 7-game series. you gotta roll with a balanced attack or physical teams will check our one-line into playoff oblivion.

[HenryMalredo 2]

Since we were giving away draft picls

i would of preferred to trade our 6th for either Simon or Lapointe..

we needed a physical pressence..

The Wings have enough 4th liners as it is.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

The Wings have enough 4th liners as it is.

Thats not good logic, you upgrade in any area you have a chance to. Just because they have "enough 4th liners", doesnt mean you cant and shouldnt get a better one. If theyre making accomodations for a washed up McCarty, there's definitely room for improvement in the bottom lines wouldnt you say?

EDIT- and no, im not some McCarty hater....i just happen to think he's got nothing left (i guess thatd be a nicer way to put it than washed up..) Personally, I'd prefer having taken a risk with Simon if given the choice between the two.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Lou_Siffer

[Offsides 21]

I was mad at Holland, mainly because we didn't get Fedorov. Also because we didn't really get ANYONE and we need scoring. I was at work, being mad, and it occured to me that Holland probably did the right thing.

I don't think we'll win the Cup this year. We have too many injuries. I know we'll heal, but some won't 100% or get re-injured...or not get healed in time...and of course....we have 4 rounds of playoffs and the end of the regular season to acquire more injuries. It's possible, but our team is ailing so much that I think that we have a slim chance of getting it all together in time.

Why should Holland put all of his eggs into that basket? Risk losing good young players to rent-a-players for a post season that is going to be probably short and disappointing? What is the point. Save your money, save your talent, and get some people in the offseason and try next year. Very smart.

I'm not totally writing us off, and I always have faith, but I'm being realistic here, and I think Holland might have actually done the smart thing given our chances. One player...be it Hossa, Fedorov, Ovechkin or Crosby will not solve the problems we have right now. If our team was 100% we could have probably pulled something off and had a good Cup run.

That being said...I'm not writing off our team, I think our team is great and if healthy totally positioned to go far. We'll see, but I understand.

[HenryMalredo 2]

Thats not good logic, you upgrade in any area you have a chance to. Just because they have "enough 4th liners", doesnt mean you cant and shouldnt get a better one. If theyre making accomodations for a washed up McCarty, there's definitely room for improvement in the bottom lines wouldnt you say?

EDIT- and no, im not some McCarty hater....i just happen to think he's got nothing left (i guess thatd be a nicer way to put it than washed up..) Personally, I'd prefer having taken a risk with Simon if given the choice between the two.

I wouldn't of minded the Wings getting a guy like Gratton, but it would've been more important for them to get a second liner, then another 4th liner, no matter how gritty they are. Lapointe has almost nothing left in the tank, and Simon should join McCarty in the AHL. A small increase toughness along with a decrease in skill and responsible defensive play is not worth it.

[eva unit zero 271]

Not so sure the word "LYNCH" should be used in a comedic manor. I mean it does mean more than the MOD who merged these meant it to mean. Kinda like a racial slur right... if not then people wouldn't get so mad over saying someone should be lynched. Therefore it is racist

"Lynch" is associated with racial tension due to the prevalence of the lynching of blacks by the KKK. That said, lynch means to punish someone through the use of physicla harm, often mob violence. Using the term is NOT a racial slur and anyone who is offended by the use of the term in the correct context is being overly sensitive about something that does not have any racial orientation.

Maybe you'd have preferred a title like "All 'Kill the Whitey Holland' threads merged" or something...which is ABSOLUTELY a racially charged and denigrating statement.

[eva unit zero 271]

Thats not good logic, you upgrade in any area you have a chance to. Just because they have "enough 4th liners", doesnt mean you cant and shouldnt get a better one. If theyre making accomodations for a washed up McCarty, there's definitely room for improvement in the bottom lines wouldnt you say?

EDIT- and no, im not some McCarty hater....i just happen to think he's got nothing left (i guess thatd be a nicer way to put it than washed up..) Personally, I'd prefer having taken a risk with Simon if given the choice between the two.

McCarty won't play if he's not an upgrade over what's currently on the roster. We already know Simon is not. So if McCarty plays, it means he is a better fit than Simon.

[2probert4 8]

I hate to back peddle, but I've been thinking...maybe I shouldn't jump ship on Holland so quick. I'll give Stuart a chance before I thrash Holland.

plus/minus is not a good description of a player, that stat is accumulated from goals scored when youre on the ice - it could be your teammate that blows his assignment and you're still penalized for that. Stuart is a good defenseman who was on a bad Kings team, with very bad goaltending and what ever else is wrong with that team. Crawford may be on thin ice there and if hes not, he should be

[bellarina 1]

Really? Because the Wings have been RACKING UP goals every game, right? Now tell me it's because of the injuries. Please. Because I will say that the injuries make it even more obvious that the Wings lack scoring.

The Wings are second in the league in goals only to the Sens. I didn't know that Being first in the league in goals scored was so important.

I really hope that people aren't thinking McCarty is going to be this secondary scorer.

I don't think thats what he's there for, but he may add a little confidence to players like Dats and Zetta knowing that theres a price to pay if players try to take liberties on them.

[rod 0]

Stuart is -14 too. Not that I don't like the trade, I'm just saying.

Lidstrom would be a minus as well playing for the Kings.Think about it.

[Izzy24 44]

Aren't the King's in last place? Why would you go for anyone on that team? The person who initialized this post said Stuart has a -16 ranking. What is going through Holland's mind? Oh, man...Brad Stuart! No one would suspect us getting him. Geeze, our blue line is going to be deep now! Brad Stuart leading the Grand Rapids gang would be awesome for the 2 weeks that they in town. What an acquisition! I bet his panties were all wet setting this one up.

Hello Holland...Why is ol' 37 STILL on this team?

What? Hossa wasn't exactly on a great team either, did you want him?

[Kira 451]

This might get me in trouble, but here goes.

I think you guys are wrong for wanting to get rid of Holland. I don't blame him in the least for being a very reluctant shopper. He didn't get into the Hossa dealing (aka Silly Season) for a couple of good reasons. Number one, the price was too high. They wanted Flip, perhaps someone like Jakub Kindl, and a couple of high draft choices. Wrong. Number two, Holland had to be a little leery of another rental deal like last season's trade deadline fiasco. I would be.

Holland did what he thought he could do with what he had to work with. The fact that he didn't sell out the farm to get a high-priced, high maintenance player like Hossa should not be held against him, and those who think he should have done just that need to reconsider their words.

If you want to question someone's thinking, I suggest Bob Gainey's in Montreal. Now that was a head scratcher.

Now for the part that will probably catch me hell.

First of all, "lynch" is a terrible word...it has very racial and evil connotations...did you ever hear of using your brains and a thesaurus to come up with a more intelligent word for your ridiculous theory of getting rid of Holland?

Second...this is not the same league it used to be. You cannot go out and spend all types of money to get the team that you seem to think we need. You can't do that anymore. You have to use a little wisdom and discretion. Holland did that. He left us with a nice comfortable nest egg worth of cap space to use to sign the people we do need, like Cleary, Zetterberg, and yes, even Lilja. Get this through your heads - we don't need Marian Hossa, Mike Richards or any other high money, high ego showoff. It's the guys who are willing to go into the trenches and work their asses off that we need.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Kira

[umredwing11 2]

This might get me in trouble, but here goes.

I think you guys are wrong for wanting to get rid of Holland. I don't blame him in the least for being a very reluctant shopper. He didn't get into the Hossa dealing (aka Silly Season) for a couple of good reasons. Number one, the price was too high. They wanted Flip, perhaps someone like Jakub Kindl, and a couple of high draft choices. Wrong. Number two, Holland had to be a little leery of another rental deal like last season's trade deadline fiasco. I would be.

I am with you on this--I don't blame Holland for not biting on the Hossa thing or any others where the asking price was high. But Holland got himself into a couple problems, mostly because last summer he said we needed and would go after a second line scorer at the trade deadline. So he realized this problem and justified his decision not to sign someone as a UFA by stating that he'd left cap space to fix this issue at the deadline. Next, on a couple of deals I found the asking price of many players to not be that high (i.e. Lapointe, Fedorov). To that point, Holland justified letting these guys slide by saying they were not a good fit. I am just confused with the decision to not improve with secondary scoring and to only slightly upgrade on d-fence. I don't want to get rid of Holland, I just want to understand how he could stand pat when most of the Western conference vastly improved.

[Kira 451]

I am with you on this--I don't blame Holland for not biting on the Hossa thing or any others where the asking price was high. But Holland got himself into a couple problems, mostly because last summer he said we needed and would go after a second line scorer at the trade deadline. So he realized this problem and justified his decision not to sign someone as a UFA by stating that he'd left cap space to fix this issue at the deadline. Next, on a couple of deals I found the asking price of many players to not be that high (i.e. Lapointe, Fedorov). To that point, Holland justified letting these guys slide by saying they were not a good fit. I am just confused with the decision to not improve with secondary scoring and to only slightly upgrade on d-fence. I don't want to get rid of Holland, I just want to understand how he could stand pat when most of the Western conference vastly improved.

He did what he thought was right. I am not going to blame him for that in the least. Maybe he didn't think they would fit in under Mike Babcock's system...who are we to say? We don't run the team.

Also, he was also working with Steve Yzerman, Mike Babcock, Jim Devallano and I'm sure Scotty Bowman as well. He didn't do this alone. They had input as well, and perhaps it was a group consensus not to go this way. Again, who are we to say?

Forgive me for thinking logically and rationally ( I know that is in short supply here), but I'm willing to give the guy some slack.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Kira

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

The bottom line is that other than Cleary, we have no consistent scorers on our 2nd line heading into the playoffs. Actually, Cleary is hurt, so we don't even know if we'll have him in the playoffs. Flip, Sammy, Franzen and Hudler have shown that they can disappear completely while they're on the ice. I just hope they don't all disappear at the same time, like we've seen them do lately.