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Lidstrom and Osgood, do they get their numbers retired?

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It takes more than personal accolades to get your number retired by the wings. Look at Mickey Redmond. First Red Wing to score 50 goals in a season and he's not up there. Every number in the JLA rafters contributed not only to advancement of the organization but of the NHL. Lidstrom broke through the glass ceiling that that was put over the heads of European captains, in addition to all his accomplishments for the organization. So outside of Yzerman, Lids is the only one qualifies from this generation. Fedorov is a possible for being instrumental in the European movement, and for being the only player ever to win the Hart and Selke trophies in the same year. His leaving shouldn't really effect it, neither Gordie or Terry played for the wings exclusively. But, I personally think Feds doesn't want to see his name and number up there. If he did he wouldn't have left in the first place. And, if his number is raised to applause of 30,000 I think he'd realize the hypocrisy.

And Oz: I love him, and I say this not out of disrespect, but what has he done for the game? He's got maybe 4 more seasons to make his case.

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But, I personally think Feds doesn't want to see his name and number up there. If he did he wouldn't have left in the first place.

Fedorov wanted to stay in Detroit. He still has Michigan ties. It's not a matter of whether or not he left or how he left, it's what he did while he was here. To suggest his accolades are somehow tarnished because he left for another team in the twilight of his career is laughable. He did what Howe, Sawchuk, Kelly, Lindsay, and Abel also did. And no one is questioning any of those players retired numbers.

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Guest CaliWingsNut   
Guest CaliWingsNut

Funny all this talk of the names possibly going up into the rafters, when if it wasn't for his split time with other teams, the next name going up there would have been Chelios. Since his arrival in detroit he's been a contender and while now he's turning to a support role... his only career goals would be defeating things achieved already by names in the rafters.

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I love Drapes but i dunno if he is worthy or not. He plays his best day in and day out, that is not debatable, i just dont think his best is worth jersey retirement. You really have to have that Extra umph, and for forwards that means a great offenseive standout or great contribution to a team success that i dont think he really has. Dont get me wrong, hes a great player, just not jersey retirement great.

Please tell me that you didn't just say that Draper doesn't make contributions to the team that make them successful. This team didn't start winning cups again until Yzerman decided to become a defensive stud. Players contribute in more ways than scoring. Draper has been key to the four Cup teams he has been part of. He centered the second most popular line in Red Wings history. He has been one of the best face off men in the league for a long time. He has been this teams best penalty killer for as long as he has played. There is more than offensive stats as a reason to retire a number.

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Fedorov wanted to stay in Detroit. He still has Michigan ties. It's not a matter of whether or not he left or how he left, it's what he did while he was here. To suggest his accolades are somehow tarnished because he left for another team in the twilight of his career is laughable. He did what Howe, Sawchuk, Kelly, Lindsay, and Abel also did. And no one is questioning any of those players retired numbers.

If Feds wanted to stay, why did he take less money to leave? Turning your back on a franchise so you can be the #1 guy on a team doesn't get your number retired. That is just my opinion.

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Guest LivingtheDream   
Guest LivingtheDream

Take a look at the rafters and if you don't know some of these guys, then look them up. Now realize this isn't something just any fan favorite earns. It is way beyond that. You have to not only be a great Wing, you have to be great in the NHL. Top tier. Lids passes muster no problem and is fully worthy of hockey immortality. Osgood's not there yet. He was fantastic this year and yes has more playoff wins/wings wins..., but he has been more of a supporting cast member than a true hockey God.

Please people, don't cheapen it. Any way, it's up to people who get this.

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Once again: Simply the fact that we have to debate Ozzie's qualifications, that alone disqualifies him for retiring the number. When a number goes up to the rafters, there should be absolutely no doubt to all watching that the honor is deserved.

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He is a HOF lock. You don't win 400 games (which will happen either next year or the year after) in the NHL, as well as start for two Cups, and NOT make the Hall. Brodeur was considered a HOF lock when he had 324 wins, two Cups, and no Vezinas. Why doesn't 363 wins, two Cups, and no Vezinas put Ozzie in the same seat? Brodeur's team has been just as good as Osgood's; better defensively, in fact.

How come Osgood with comparable career accomplishments is a 'maybe if he wins another Cup' yet Brodeur was an absolute lock?

And as far as Ozzie's GAA, in many seasons he has either lead the league or been among the league leaders in GAA. Say what you want about 'dead puck' era...but his GAA is still better than most guys to play in the same period of time.

He's not, but keep trying to tell yourself that a lot of wins ensures a spot in the HOF. The difference between Brodeur and Ozzie is that Brodeur has always been a bonafide #1 goalie who backstopped his team nearly every game of the whole season and put together some record-setting playoff runs. And unlike Detroit, New Jersey has always been an average or weak offensive team whose success has always been contingent on Brodeur's play in goal. You're also talking about a guy whose twice had a GAA under 1.9, and under 2.18 five other times. He has way more career SOs. His career save percentage is 6 points higher.

And really, playing with the stats is getting you nowhere - since Martin HAS won THREE Vezinas recently and could have won a few more if Hasek wasn't setting the league on fire back in the day.

Outside of 1996, Osgood has never led the league in GAA playing as the #1 goalie. I don't know where you get your numbers from. He led the league this year, but he was splitting time - y'know, like all great HOF goalies do. The only other times he was near the top of the league were 1998 and 04 in St Louis. If you're saying Ozzie's GAA was better than most average goalies of the time, than yes, you may be correct. That's exactly what Ozzie has been - above average. His GAA was nowhere near the GAAs of guys like Hasek, Brodeur, Roy, Belfouretc during the dead puck era(97-04). Hell, Roman Cechmanek produced more memorable seasons back then.

The bottom line is, you're trying to build a case for Osgood based solely on his wins and how good Detroit has been. Sorry, but that's not enough. Manny Legace was producing the same sort of wins and stats Ozzie was recently, and probably could have produced the same career numbers if he in Ozzie's spot. In fact, a number of guys could have. And point out to me how many HOF goaltenders were dropped to WAIVERS in the prime of their careers. He is regarded as a good-not-great goalie leaguewide. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine, but I can assure you nobody who votes in the Hall agrees with you.

Edited by Probert 5 For Fighting

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Guest mindfly   
Guest mindfly

Definitely Lidström, Lidström has been playing all his career in detroit like stevie Y, never made mistakes, first european captain, as good captain as stevie Y... Lidströms number retired in a few year, OH YEAH.

Edited by mindfly

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Once again: Simply the fact that we have to debate Ozzie's qualifications, that alone disqualifies him for retiring the number. When a number goes up to the rafters, there should be absolutely no doubt to all watching that the honor is deserved.

Yep. :thumbup:

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Yes to Lidstrom. He stayed with the team his entire NHL career (so far, and he doesn't show any signs of going anywhere else) and he is arguably one of the best defensemen in the history of the sport.

In my opinion, Osgood shouldn't even be considered. He's a great goalie and fans love him but he was never a true superstar and he played for a few different teams. Possibly an honorable mention would do for Osgood. I don't think his number deserves to be permanently reserved. It would take someone like Roy who has always been there with the team and is considered an all-star goalie season after season.

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Lidstrom shouldn't be any question, yes.

Osgood I'm not so sure yet, but I'd love to see it happen. I'm not an "Osgood doubter" or anything like that, but getting your jersey retired means you are up with some pretty damn special company. If he keeps winning more often than not and finishes his career in Detroit and can win a 3rd Cup as a starter, then there shouldn't be any question. Part of me says there shouldn't be much of a question about it now.

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While I understand people here have mad love for their Wings, some of you aren't being very realistic.

Drapes? Shanahan? I love these guys too, but this isn't some Mickey Mouse franchise were talking about. There are 6 numbers retired in the Wings' 83 year history and some of you are suggesting that that number should be almost doubled! Let's get real here.

Draper and Shanahan have absolutely no shot of getting their numbers retired in Detroit. Had Fedorov not left, he'd probably (not definitely) get his number retired, but now that he has moved (and regardless as to whether or not he somehow finishes his career in Detroit) he still shouldn't get the honor *purely based on the difficulty to get your number retired in Detroit*. There have been great players to don the Winged Wheel since Delvecchio retired, but having your number lifted in Detroit is IMO, a higher honor than it is with almost any other franchise.

Lids: Absolutely

Ozzie: I love the guy, but I don't think so.

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I always say this: If you have to debate it, the answer is no. Retiring a number is a greater honor than the Hall of Fame.

This is the ol' Jim Rice argument and I subscribe to it whole heartedly if you have to make a case or an argument that some one is either Hall of Fame or Retired Jersey worthy than they are not!

It is an honor bestowed upon only the most respected wings of all times, Ozzie did unreal this year, and would need to keep this up for at least 2 more seasons and win at least 1 more cup as the starter before I would consider him to get his number retired.

Think of it this way look at the two names in the topic:

Lids

Ozzie

What are the reasons posted in this thread for Lids to be retired, NONE, it is a forgone conclusion, and IMO that is how this should work.

The only question surrounding the #5 going into the rafters is what year, and what game will the ceremony be.

As much as I am rooting for Ozzie this upcoming season, I can not at this point in time say that the #30 in the rafters is a forgone conclusion.

Now if Ozzie ends his career holding most Det goaltending records than yes it becomes a forgone conclusion, however at this point I have to say no to Ozzie in the rafters.

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Lidstrom will get his number retired.

Osgood will have his number retired and he will be inducted into the hhof as well. He has the second most wins as a red wing and he could possibly pass Sawchuk not only in wins as a Red Wing but in wins all time wich would move him into the top 5 all time. That arguement about his stats not being good enough just doesn't hold water. Grant Fuhr is in the hall of fame and his career gaa is 3.38 and sv% .887. Patrick Roy has a career 2.53 gaa and .910sv%. Osgood's 2.43 gaa and .907 sv% are a hell of a lot better than fuhr's and Roy's sv% isn't much better than Ozzy's. Martin Brodeur, Jacques Plante, and Dominik Hasek are the only three players ahead of Osgood in wins with a better career gaa.

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Wow, so much unlove for the guy won just won a cup.

Lids yes. Feds yes. Ozzie yes.

Oz is a huge fan favorite, he will have atleast 2 cups and over 400 wins. All three numbers will be hung.

No, they really won't.

Lidst will, I'm 95% sure Ozzie won't, and I'll bet you anything Fedorov won't.

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This is why I think Ozzie gets serious consideration. I agree it's harder to get your name in the rafters than in the HHOF, but when you look at Ozzie's stats compared to all other goalies that have worn the Winged Wheel there is a definite case to be made. He's passed Sawchuk in some important stat categories while hauling in 2 Stanley Cups. I think if he is successful for another year and makes at least another SC with the Wings then he's got it. I think he leads the Wings to another SC win, and he's locked.

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Ozzie - He needs 1 more significant accomplishment in my mind to get up there. Those could be: Vezina Trophy, another Stanley Cup, or 500 wins

I'm fine with that as the "requirement". Odds are pretty good he'll get the Cup if he has a Vezina-class year.

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Lidstrom is such a no-brainer.

Osgood is not even close yet... he needs at least one more Cup as a starter (and then it is still debateable), but he could really sweeten the deal with a Vezina or a Conn Smythe.

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