Red Wings to carry enforcer.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

I am not opposed to this since he at least has some offensive upside and would fill Drake's role relatively well. Having said that, we in no way need him and shouldn't offer him much money, if we even decided to call his agent at all.

Tucker isn't the type of player I want on the Red Wings. For a classy organization we don't need anymore agitators that just make us look bad (we already have Maltby for that). There has to be some better option...

[HenryMalredo 2]

What about Vinny, Iginla, Thorton (when forced), Phaneuf, Doan, hell even Ovechkin and Crosby (on occasion). I mean no, it's not like in Gordies day, but you also can't rat pack a guy in the corner like they used to either. I actually have noticed more fights and a wider variety of players fighting than the past few years.

Oh yeah, I love to see elite players fight (though I definitely do not consider Shane Doan in the same class as the rest of the players you mention). Unfortunately, its not something we get to see all to often. I'd rather see great players fight as, unlike many borderline players, they are actually fighting for a reason.

[bringback91 2]

Oh yeah, I love to see elite players fight (though I definitely do not consider Shane Doan in the same class as the rest of the players you mention). Unfortunately, its not something we get to see all to often. I'd rather see great players fight as, unlike many borderline players, they are actually fighting for a reason.

I hear ya. I love to watch hockey fights, but i'm not much of a fan of "staged fights" or ones without a reason. In the middle of a battle of a game, or paybacks like Downey for Lids that's where it's at IMO. Your right while he's not there in skill, Doan is pretty much the face of the franchise pre Olli and along with the others is either a captain or a leader. I'm all about seeing these guys fight, but I'm not sure I'd like to see it much more than we already do. I mean it would be a real shame to see one of these guys miss a big chunk of time from a broken hand due to game #23 of the schedule, you know. I don't know that the Wings star players perfromances have really suffered in the past due to a lack of an enforcer, or that they've lost a series because of it, but i do think it gives the guys a boost and they may play a bit more physical knowing someone's got thier back when s*** hits the fan. But I also think that these guys are grown men, hockey players their whole lives, and when push comes to shove they'll do what they have to do. As witnessed by Datsyuk and Roberts. no it's not Carkner vs. Probie at center ice, but that was good to see. But I'll agree with most others, if not Downey someone has to fill that role again this coming year.

[Dabura 12,207]

I think by "enforcer," Kenny probably means McCarty.

[DatsMyWings13 4]

After this past season where Wing players (mostly Downey) actually suck up for their teammates, I'm surprised so many people don't want Downey or some enforcer here. He played an extremely limited role but did it well.

Have people already forgotten what it was like to "let the powerplay be our enforcer" and watch Wings players get run with no repercussions?

I'm all for Downey returning! I think every team needs one legit enforcer.

[henrik40 76]

I'll take Downey over Laraque any day. Laraque is a straight goon and sometimes it seems like he just goes on the ice looking to start a fight regardless. Even though Downey doesn't see much ice time, when he does he doesn't stop skating and just flies around the ice not to mention he forechecks real hard. Booo on Laraque

Edited June 25, 2008 by henrik40

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Agreed. I'm most certainly not advocating steering away from carrying an enforcer. I feel I made my point very clear when I stated that I would like to see the Wings carry DMac, Downey *and* Laraque.......albiet with Darren or Aaron (or both) having a two-way contract. I would love having an enforcer that can skate every game and chip in on offense once in a while. Guys like Downey are phenomenal depth guys to be called in when needed, but the ideal situation regarding Downey and the Wings is a two-way contract.

We agree on something yay..

I'll take Downey over Laraque any day. Laraque is a straight goon and sometimes it seems like he just goes on the ice looking to start a fight regardless. Even though Downey doesn't see much ice time, when he does he doesn't stop skating and just flies around the ice not to metion he forechecks real hard. Booo on Laraque

He's the farthest thing from a goon, He doens't look to cheap shot people, He doesn't look to do malicous things.. BGL isn't a Tootoo,Downie,Burrows type player.. Not saying he doesn't have a mean streak, just saying he isnt a goon by any means

Edited June 25, 2008 by Dump-N-Thump

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Also, for anyone who cares.

Brian McGrattan just got traded from Ottawa to the pheonix cyotoes for a 5th round pick..

Carcillo..McGrattan..Weller

wo wo we wa..

[henrik40 76]

We agree on something yay..

He's the farthest thing from a goon, He doens't look to cheap shot people, He doesn't look to do malicous things.. BGL isn't a Tootoo,Downie,Burrows type player.. Not saying he doesn't have a mean streak, just saying he isnt a goon by any means

Sorry, but I respectfully disagreee

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

***EDITED***

Edited June 25, 2008 by Dump-N-Thump

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Sorry, but I respectfully disagreee

Give me one example of how Laraque is a goon.

Let me guess...because he fights?

Edit: Let me stop you before you even bring up the Downie incident. Downie was being his typical goon self that night, and dove like an Olympian after being slightly nudged. Laraque even said after the game that if he had wanted to run Downie from behind, he wouldn't have gotten up.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Opie 308]

I have to admit, there is not another teams board in the NHL or probably AHL where the team carrying an enforcer is almost pinnable material!

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

My comment wasn't directed at you specifically.

The PP be our enforcer was the crap the Wings were saying two years ago when they had no one that would drop the gloves to stick up for their teammates.

having an enforcer may not prevent guys from running our star players, but it helps team morale and chemistry when you know someone's got your back and will put a beat down on the player that ran you, rather than turning the other cheek. I don't know if I can find them anymore, but over the season there were several quotes from players saying as much.

I'm not saying it has to be Downey, but I think his presence made a difference even in his limited ice time. The Wings have plenty of guys who can contribute on the scoresheet. Downey provides something they don't really get anywhere else. For that reason I'd rather have someone like Downey eating up a roster spot than someone like Chelios, who may sit half the season in spite of us having plenty of guys who can fill that role and play all season long.

I don't care that it's Downey per se. but if not him, I want someone filling that role. And yeah, i'd love to see Lucic, but it's not happening.

WELL SAID HAROLD!

I agree, it doesn't have to be Downey. And I also agree with Opie that a "better" enforcer would just be super duper. But where the f*** are we going to find one? Downey makes peanuts and does exactly what is needed of him.

To Opie, I gotta respectfully disagree about him being a liability. It's an opportunity/cost thing. You say he's a liability b/c he can only play so many minutes and that might hinder the guys he's playing with.

I say he brings something the team does not have and the expected, relatively low production output we might see from a minor leaguer or prospect getting 4th line minutes does not outweigh the toughness and "I got your back" morale boost that having a fighter brings to your lineup. If even for only a few minutes its worth it.

The biggest selling factor for me was him beating down Lappy after the Lids hit.

Go back and view the 2 hits that put Lebda down, the hit by Torres on Williams and the hit on Franzen where our guys couldn't get off the ice without trainers/stretchers and left nice little pools of blood on the ice. Look at the outrage on these boards after those hits how NOBODY stepped up and fought or did anything to make people accountable.

The big hits will never stop. But having a guy go out and challenge the other team for hitting you is worth its weight in gold. Anybody who has played the game at a level where fighting has been tolerated can attest to this.

[Opie 308]

GS&T

I agree you need to have some one do it, but on the ice if he is not fighting Downey is indeed a liability.

Just because he provides something in one area doesn't mean he isn't a liability in another.

Again I will say Downey is way way way better than no one, but I would prefer a guy who can play game in game out and chip in even minimally offensively.

I am just struck by how this board loves a guy like Downey and he is not a liability but a guy like Sammy is a complete waste and should be traded for a bag of pucks.

Just because the guy defends his teammates doesn't mean that when the puck is in his own zone and he is forced to cover one of the other teams top 6 (maybe 9) forwards (can happen icing, bad change, last change) you can not argue that he isn't a liability.

He is not a very good defender, he has 0 shot, hands of stone, the best move the guy has is to give the puck to someone else, how is that not a liability?

[Dabura 12,207]

I think you guys are getting bent out of shape over nothing. Ken Holland saying we'll have an enforcer really doesn't mean anything, for a couple reasons:

1) He also said we'd have a new big-name scoring winger last summer, and then again in the days leading up to the last trade deadline. Obviously that didn't come to fruition.

2) It's safe to say Kenny's idea of an enforcer doesn't stick close to the strict definition.

As I've been saying, this "enforcer" will probably be Darren McCarty or Aaron Downey. Neither case would be especially shocking or worth fussing about. What would be genuinely shocking is seeing a guy like Laraque (that is, a legitimate enforcer) on the roster this season. I'd be all for it (at the right price), but come on, this is Ken Holland and the Detroit Red Wings we're talking about.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

GS&T

I agree you need to have some one do it, but on the ice if he is not fighting Downey is indeed a liability.

Just because he provides something in one area doesn't mean he isn't a liability in another.

Again I will say Downey is way way way better than no one, but I would prefer a guy who can play game in game out and chip in even minimally offensively.

I am just struck by how this board loves a guy like Downey and he is not a liability but a guy like Sammy is a complete waste and should be traded for a bag of pucks.

Just because the guy defends his teammates doesn't mean that when the puck is in his own zone and he is forced to cover one of the other teams top 6 (maybe 9) forwards (can happen icing, bad change, last change) you can not argue that he isn't a liability.

He is not a very good defender, he has 0 shot, hands of stone, the best move the guy has is to give the puck to someone else, how is that not a liability?

You forgot that he's also a terrible skater.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Darcy Hordichuk might be available if Carolina can't re-sign him. He'll come cheap, is a good fighter and hitter, is a decent skater with good speed, and can occasionally provide offense as well (more than Downey, anyways). He's a better fighter as well, if that means anything to anyone.

Really though, the Wings enforcer will probably be either Downey or McCarty; maybe even both, but nobody else beyond that. The Wings don't heavily go after enforcers.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Kp-Wings

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

GS&T

I agree you need to have some one do it, but on the ice if he is not fighting Downey is indeed a liability.

Just because he provides something in one area doesn't mean he isn't a liability in another.

Again I will say Downey is way way way better than no one, but I would prefer a guy who can play game in game out and chip in even minimally offensively.

I am just struck by how this board loves a guy like Downey and he is not a liability but a guy like Sammy is a complete waste and should be traded for a bag of pucks.

Just because the guy defends his teammates doesn't mean that when the puck is in his own zone and he is forced to cover one of the other teams top 6 (maybe 9) forwards (can happen icing, bad change, last change) you can not argue that he isn't a liability.

He is not a very good defender, he has 0 shot, hands of stone, the best move the guy has is to give the puck to someone else, how is that not a liability?

I hate that we as fans, have come to believe that to play for the Red Wings, you must have skill and only that. Just because Downey cant score you a ton of goals, or rack up a bunch of assists, it doesnt matter. We have players for that. Downey brings you other elements and that's why he always has a job whether it be in thr minors or in the NHL. He's the most upbeat player to play for the Wings since a young D-Mac. I mean, he was at 0 all year, which is great for an enforcer. He didnt have that many giveaways, he had 79 hits in 4-6 minutes a night over 56 games. I dont know if hits mean anything to you Opie, but I think it's very important have consitent hitters on your bottom lines as opposed to gusy like Sammy who are more skill then physical. No knock on Sammy, it's just I dont see him as the typical 3rd or 4th liner.

As for Phoenix getting McGrattan, not only are they gonna be a good team next year, there probably goning to be the toughest as well.

[pavyaz19 1]

Why do so many Wings fans on this board love Aaron Downey? Sure, he's a great guy and sticks up for his teamates well, but c'mon, other than fighting, he's USELESS on the ice. I mean did you guys watch the regular season? Where is all this Downey love coming from? He can fight but he can't play hockey, it makes no sense to keep him.

I agree 100% with this. Downey is absolutely useless other than fighting. He's a terrible hockey player.

[Dabura 12,207]

Downey is absolutely useless other than fighting.

He's useful as an enforcer type, and that role is useful in boosting morale, curbing cheap shots, etc.

The guy's not going to net 15-20 goals, but no one expects him to. That's why he gets paid peanuts -- he's an enforcer type. Saying he's not good for much else is kind of missing the point.

True, it would be nice to have someone who can enforce and put up good numbers, but players like that command more money than what Downey generally earns. Between those two options, I'd pick Downey. If all you need out of your enforcer is...well, enforcing, then why spend an extra $1-1.5 million on a "better player" when the guy playing for league-minimum (Downey) gives you exactly what you need out of that role?

[uk_redwing 495]

I agree 100% with this. Downey is absolutely useless other than fighting. He's a terrible hockey player.

Theres more to ice hockey than just being able to score goals my good friend.

Osgood is also useless at anything other than goaltending. But guess what, thats his role. Just like Downey's role is to enforce, rough up the opponents and he also motivates in the locker room.

[redwinger4747 6]

Theres more to ice hockey than just being able to score goals my good friend.

Osgood is also useless at anything other than goaltending. But guess what, thats his role. Just like Downey's role is to enforce, rough up the opponents and he also motivates in the locker room.

Are you actually trying to compare Osgood's role with Downey's role? I might as well say Babcock is absolutely uselss at anything other than coaching, therefore, he fits his role as well as Downey. C'mon, Downey can fight and do nothing else. This is NOT the same as Osgood being able to goaltend and nothing else.

[jvxp 0]

Why?

Laraque is 10-times the *hockey* player that Downey will ever be, and can chip in with an (albeit) occasional point.

While I appreciate Downey keeping the opposition honest in the games he played last season, the Wings would benefit much more from Laraque than they ever would from Downey.

Scoring: Advantage Laraque

Fighting: Advantage Laraque

Size: Advantage Laraque

Sorry, but Downey doesn't stack up against Georges. As I said, I'll take him in a heartbeat for the right price.

Me too!!!!

[AUWingsFan 0]

Personally I love Downey because for the most part he didn't take stupid penalties....so if he's the guy we keep around I'll be more than happy!

I also wouldn't mind Laraque since the guy is a beast. Those videos were great. The fight with Brashear was a great one, but my favorite was hearing Darren Pang announce the one where Laraque was mic'd up so we heard the two guys talk about the fight before the faceoff.....Although that is sort of a problem to me, because the last thing we need is for someone to take a penalty when one isn't needed, but chances are good both players would be in the box and so the teams would be at even strength.

My heart is still with Downey though because you can tell he's giving it all he has every shift, which is nice. He also is great at picking his spots and doesn't just try to start a fight to do it (so he doesn't take an instigator penalty). Who knows, maybe Pavel and Downey can work out an agreement for Pav to help Downey with his scoring and Downey will help Pav with his fighting!!

Go Wings!

P.S. I think we should all be happy the Wings are going to carry an enforcer....it's nice to know we have one somewhere instead of watching our guys get run and becoming frustrated because there's no one to do anything about it.......

[uk_redwing 495]

Are you actually trying to compare Osgood's role with Downey's role?

Yeah. What you gonna do about it?