Red Wings to carry enforcer.

[Dominator2005 558]

I'll bite, You are willing to trade away Sammy for "anything" yet you think Tucker will be a good addition.

What on earth makes you think Tucker is a better player at this stage in their career's.

Tucker is old, tired and washed up, he isn't the type of player Drake is/was. He is a Maltby, with a little more offensive upside, to replace Drake you would want a banger, not an agitator.

I love how all of you guys bag on Sammy yet it was he who started the SCF off with a bang, he forechecked and worked hard with Flip and Mule all post season to form at one point in time the best line for the wings, Babcocks words not mine.

Yet all of that credit is given to Mule and Flip, because Sammy was just standing around with his thumb up his arse right!

Holland signed Greg Johnson couple of years ago - how many games did he played?

Sammy is... Sammy... no need for him!!!

Tucker - season off last year but he could be nice pick up.

Tucker = Maltby ???

Scoring = Tucker

Hitting = Tucker

Fighting = Tucker

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Neil would be great assuming we could still carry an enforcer.

Neil reminds me of Mccarty in his prime. Rough Ruggid, But can play some good hockey at the same time. Neil is a fighter not an enforcer.. Only HW he fought last year was Donald Brashear. and he didn't fair that well..

With that said. Neil would be ideal in Detroit.. But i would still carry a HW Enforcer as the 13th man.. Just because Neil couldn't carry the fightload alone..

[Superman54 91]

Laraque isn't a bad idea at all. The only thing is, I could see him making substantially more than your average enforcer because, well, hes not your average enforcer. He has enough skill to be an everyday player, but I could see him getting a little over 1M for a few years, and Detroit wont offer that. Isnt he coming off a 1.5M contract?

Maybe we could steal Sortini from Edmonton??

f*** YEAH!

[Superman54 91]

Opie, I get it that you think he's a liability in some areas. But how about this thought, when it comes to playing a hitting, physical game and standing up for your team, Filpulla, Hudler, Helm etc....are all liabilities because frankly, they cannot do anything more than shove back.

Just about every player has a liability depending upon what criteria you want to look at. So why point out Downey's liability as an overall hockey player when we all know he can't do it? It's redundant, you can point out anybody's flaws.

And to be overly concerned about matchups is sort of a waste of time IMO. There are 29 other teams, many of which carry 1 or 2 players or even 3 players that would never crack a Wings lineup due to lack of skill. I don't think the world is going to end b/c of Downey's 4 minutes per night and the extremely odd occurence where he might be on the ice against Joe Sakic. I think that's alot of worrying for nothing.

We're on the same page that Downey is better than nothing but something better than Downey would be preferable. Problem is there isn't anybody really. From a Wings perspective, there's so much talent in the lineup and our need to fight and be uber physical isn't like the Ducks so we really don't need an 8-10 minute guy who will command the type of money we don't want to spend on a fighter/player. Downey is cheap and gives the Wings just enough bang for the buck.

And I agree with you about Phoenix. They just traded to tough guys and hard hitters in Boynton and Ballard so their toughness factor actually goes down IMO. McGratton is an elite heavyweight yes, but he can't skate and can't hit anybody so it boils down to him fighting other heavies. Boynton and Ballard would fly around the ice, lay people out and fight.

I have to disagree with you about Helm. That little kid was throwing his body around everywhere. He can't just merely shove back.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

But currently who is the better player which was my point?

Statistically, Sammy isn't any better than Tucker. Also, Sammy is in his 30's just like Tucker is, so age isn't an issue.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

f*** YEAH!

Tina is a punching bag who no one likes, except for the guys fighting against him.

Why would we want him on our team?

[uk_redwing 495]

Zack Stortini everyone!

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

RFA, Wouldn't cost much which means wouldn't involve much if any compensation..

I wouldn't mind it

Man the more and more i think of enforcers the more and more i'd love detroit to just put a 4th line out there that will just FSU... Stortini - Prust - Voros : D :D

[Inultus 12]

Zack Stortini everyone!

I'd really rather have a fighter on the team that can at least win SOME fights!

[LeDs 0]

You need toughness and skill to win the cup. Thats exactly why the Wings brought in Drake and re-signed Mac. Hopefully they will add a couple more players like Drake and keep someone who can fight.

I dont think Mac was completely in shape during the playoffs, he went from being out of shape to the NHL in a hurry, will be interesting to see how hard he works this off-season. The fact that Mac was put in the lineup over Downey so quickly tells me the Wings think he adds more to the lineup.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Downey is a great player in the sense that he is great on the bench and great at boosting the confidence of the other players, whether it is by words or actions.

See my signature...I wish I had a guy like that on my team, but I don't so I'm that guy. IMO, Downey's value is underestimated by many, even tho I agree he can't skate and doesn't have hands either.

How's that going for you Inultus?

I'm almost 32 years old now, done playing and paying the price now with my hands for being "that guy"

Take care of yourself!

GS&T

[redwing_sparty 0]

as much as the guy bugs me, i believe the rangers decided not to sign sean avery. avery fights well, ticks people off, and actually has some goal scoring ability.

[Dabura 12,207]

as much as the guy bugs me, i believe the rangers decided not to sign sean avery. avery fights well, ticks people off, and actually has some goal scoring ability.

If Kenny is actually serious about signing a true enforcer (doubtful), Avery is out of the picture, as he's more a pest than a actual enforcer. You want an enforcer to do just that: enforce -- i.e., beat the stuffing out of people, scare them away from doing things, etc. Avery's more likely to annoy than intimidate. You also don't want your enforcer to have an inflated ego.

As for the "I like Downey, but I'd prefer ___" argument -- again, that's all well and good, but you've also got to be willing to spend more money, then. Downey's not one of the premier enforcers in the league today, but he does what he's supposed to do, and at league minimum. If all the Wings need is someone who's going to look out for its youngsters, drop the gloves every now and then, and help boost the team's overall morale, then they might as well stick with Downey at 500 K.

[Inultus 12]

How's that going for you Inultus?

I'm almost 32 years old now, done playing and paying the price now with my hands for being "that guy"

Take care of yourself!

GS&T

I'm 31 myself, but to be honest I've got a lot more nagging injuries from being a bouncer than I do from playing hockey, tho I did get a boxing fracture in my left hand and I try not to nail anyone in the helmet with it. I really don't want to have to cast it again.

Even at my age, we usually play in the 18+ division and these kids want to be all tough but as soon as you knock them on their ass a few times they generally get the message and I usually don't have to throw down.

A few weeks ago however we had a bunch of hotheads that wanted to fight as we were shaking hands. I just laugh at stuff like that. I say I've got a cocktail waiting for me at the bar, find me there and we'll talk, ooooh I forgot you can't get into the bar.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Inultus

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Who do you play for? is it just a mens req league?

[Feldmarschall 9]

Even at my age, we usually play in the 18+ division and these kids want to be all tough but as soon as you knock them on their ass a few times they generally get the message and I usually don't have to throw down.

I never understood that. I'm 21 and I play in a men's league, and in the summer you get a huge influx of kids, high school teams and college guys that come home and want to play. Too many hotheads. Fortunately I've got a guy like you on the team that's about 6'3, mid-thirties, and a complete moose. Real strong dude, and a solid goalscorer to boot. He steps in when things get out of control, makes a pretty effective deterrent. Proof that even in beer leagues a tough guy can help.

Kudos to you for keeping punkass kids under control. God knows I prefer not to associate with my peers when they get like that.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I'm 31 myself, but to be honest I've got a lot more nagging injuries from being a bouncer than I do from playing hockey, tho I did get a boxing fracture in my left hand and I try not to nail anyone in the helmet with it. I really don't want to have to cast it again.

Even at my age, we usually play in the 18+ division and these kids want to be all tough but as soon as you knock them on their ass a few times they generally get the message and I usually don't have to throw down.

A few weeks ago however we had a bunch of hotheads that wanted to fight as we were shaking hands. I just laugh at stuff like that. I say I've got a cocktail waiting for me at the bar, find me there and we'll talk, ooooh I forgot you can't get into the bar.

HA!

With age comes wisdom.

Yeah, the last league I was in was an 18+ only. Too many kids with full cages running around mouthing off. It's probably a good thing that I got married and have 2 little girls now, keeps me from being stupid.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I'm happy with Downey.

He fits what we need perfectly. We don't need him to be a goal scorer, or a passer, or a defensive forward. We got that already. The only thing our team lacks in an enforcer, and in the lowest common denominator. Downey knows his role, and he thrives in it. As an added bonus, hes not one of the 80 other enforcers in the league who are recklessly hotheaded, either. He never fights when our team is leading and can risk turning the momentum (unless of course Lids is run at). He's smart, and for the most part, when he goes to the box, he's not going alone. On top of that, last year he won the majority of his fights, so he's solid in his job. Its not like he's Norton or some imitation enforcer who cant hold his own.

He fits the bill. He's happy here. The locker room is happy he's here. The fans are happy he's here.

[therock48880 14]

As for the "I like Downey, but I'd prefer ___" argument -- again, that's all well and good, but you've also got to be willing to spend more money, then. Downey's not one of the premier enforcers in the league today, but he does what he's supposed to do, and at league minimum. If all the Wings need is someone who's going to look out for its youngsters, drop the gloves every now and then, and help boost the team's overall morale, then they might as well stick with Downey at 500 K.

I think some people forget there's a salary cap. Downey is a very cost-effective move, which frees up more money for other needs (or wants).

[Kp-Wings 3]

Hordichuk will NOT be re-signed by the Canes. They traded for his rights and he basically told the Canes "whatever, Im going to free agency." Don't feel like finding the link, but Im sure its on google somewhere. Hordy will definitely test the market.

See, there you go. Makes even more sense to bring him in.

Hordichuk is by no means a star player, but since the majority of people on this forum are clammoring for 4th liners that do have at least some form of moderate skill, Hordy should fit the bill. He's a better all around player than Downey is, plus, he's a better fighter if you ask me.

I don't see it happening myself, though, so whatever. It'll be a ways into the summer before we really see the final decision for the who the enforcer will be on the Wings.

[therock48880 14]

See, there you go. Makes even more sense to bring him in.

Hordichuk is by no means a star player, but since the majority of people on this forum are clammoring for 4th liners that do have at least some form of moderate skill, Hordy should fit the bill. He's a better all around player than Downey is, plus, he's a better fighter if you ask me.

I don't see it happening myself, though, so whatever. It'll be a ways into the summer before we really see the final decision for the who the enforcer will be on the Wings.

I'd love to see Hordichuk as a Wing. But, I assume he would get more money than a guy like Downey would get.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

He's already declined Predators and Hurricanes offers..

So i dont know what Hordi is thinkin

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I was looking on hockeyfights, and found this interesting.

The Red Wings had 21 fights last regular season, which is by far the most they've had since '04 when they had 28. And in '02, they had exactly 21 fights. Maybe that's the magic number?

Either way, I wouldn't have thought the Wings were involved in that many fights this past year. Not having Downey or Drake or someone like them on the team will definitely change things, and not for the better.

[2probert4 8]

No doubt....I agree completely. Personally, I'd like to see him and Laraque and then sign Mac to a two-way contract. I don't see it happening due to the overload of Dmen and the fact that its overkill on *this* Red Wings team, but that would be the best of both worlds.

When are people going to realize that McCarty is not a heavyweight anymore? He doesn't strike terror in the hearts of opponents anymore. Yes I was glad to see him make it back, but let's be realistic here. Now he would be good for beating the hell out of Tootoo !

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

The fact is that the Wings haven't had an "enforcer" since Stu Grimson. They have had fighters, but no enforcers.

Mac and Downey are Anti-Enforcers. They are the people that the other team's enforcer goes after to start a fight, and they are the guys that start fights after cheapshots or big hits on star players. They themselves will not start a fight for no reason, like enforcers typically do. The Wings roster has no room for weakness. Every line must be fast and able to create scoring chances.