Top 20 players

[egroen 384]

I honestly have trouble putting Datsyuk ahead of Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby right now because those three have now done significantly better than Datsyuk in the playoffs.

Datsyuk has had injuries, but there is no denying he is not up to their level in the post-season.

Lidstrom, however, should still be in the talks -- he is still probably the best two-way player in the game, despite losing a step this past year. He has also always been great in the playoffs.

Edited September 2, 2009 by egroen

[drwscc 212]

Datsyuk

[Guest micah]

Brodeur

[anthonyn66 89]

Datsyuk

[Echolalia 2,961]

I honestly have trouble putting Datsyuk ahead of Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby right now because those three have now done significantly better than Datsyuk in the playoffs.

Datsyuk has had injuries, but there is no denying he is not up to their level in the post-season.

Lidstrom, however, should still be in the talks -- he is still probably the best two-way player in the game, despite losing a step this past year. He has also always been great in the playoffs.

Is that a vote for Lidstrom

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Datsyuk-again

[Greatness=PavelDatsyuk 65]

Lidstrom

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Nicklas Lidstrom

[Broken 16 381]

I honestly have trouble putting Datsyuk ahead of Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby right now because those three have now done significantly better than Datsyuk in the playoffs.

Datsyuk has had injuries, but there is no denying he is not up to their level in the post-season.

Lidstrom, however, should still be in the talks -- he is still probably the best two-way player in the game, despite losing a step this past year. He has also always been great in the playoffs.

At the risk of turning this into a who's better debate, it could be argued that all three of the players you mentioned faced significantly weaker defensive teams in the playoffs. Lot's of run and gun stuff going on in the first three rounds in the Eastern Conference. Plus, I would guess (without checking) that ice time is heavily slanted against Datsyuk.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Broken 16

[Guest lnvincible]

Crosby or Ovechkin, you could make a good arguement for Dats as well.

[kidish 0]

Crosby

[numberthirtynine 0]

This list will be biased towards Wings players since this is a Wings board.

Are you kidding? This place is so collectively frightened of being labeled homers, alot of people will vote in anyone NOT a Wing so no one will rip on then for their decision.

If I'm voting, I'm voting Pavel. The total package.

I dunno why some vote Crosby, I'd have a tough time putting him top 5.

Edited September 2, 2009 by numberthirtynine

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Are you kidding? This place is so collectively frightened of being labeled homers, alot of people will vote in anyone NOT a Wing so no one will rip on then for their decision.

If I'm voting, I'm voting Pavel. The total package.

I dunno why some vote Crosby, I'd have a tough time putting him top 5.

....Apparently you are not one of the people you speak of because if you are saying that you don't think Crosby is one of the top 5 players in the NHL then you are either very foolishly blinded by your hatred for him OR you are just an idiot.

Sidney Crosby is one of the top 5 players in the NHL period.....Love him or hate him its fact and no one who truly knows hockey will disagree

[DetroitfortheCup 1]

I've gotta go with Crosby. I regret to say if I were building a hockey team I'd pick Crosby over Datsyuk.

[numberthirtynine 0]

....Apparently you are not one of the people you speak of because if you are saying that you don't think Crosby is one of the top 5 players in the NHL then you are either very foolishly blinded by your hatred for him OR you are just an idiot.

Sidney Crosby is one of the top 5 players in the NHL period.....Love him or hate him its fact and no one who truly knows hockey will disagree

Yeah buddy whatever you say.

Crosby can't play defense to save his life. Crosby, can't come up with a good game when you defensively crack down on the low slot. Hank shut him down. Crosby is beatable when you shadow him. Stick someone by the corner of the net and a ton of his points disappear. Datsyuk also makes better decisions, is stronger on the puck, is a better passer, isn't a whiny *****, and actually plays D. Shadow Pavs and he still makes a hell of alot more happen, but the biggest thing is still to me, D. That's the trump card.

If I made a top 10 he'd be on it no question. I don't like him but I don't let that influence what I think. I think it's very important to be honest, more for yourself than anything. But I'd take Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Ovechkin and Malkin over Crosby any day of the week. And if we're not including D, Iginla. Who I also don't like, but will be the first to say he's better than Crosby.

Give Kane a few years and he'll be better too. Crosby is so predictably overrated. I dunno how anyone can pick Crosby with a straight face over even the three players on our own team. Hank is debatable(I'd still take him but I can see how others wouldn't) but over Pav and Lids? Not a chance in hell. I like my players to be able to play defense, not watch from the bench on a PK.

Edited September 2, 2009 by numberthirtynine

[Broken 16 381]

I've gotta go with Crosby. I regret to say if I were building a hockey team I'd pick Crosby over Datsyuk.

Based on what? Just curious.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Yeah buddy whatever you say.

Crosby can't play defense to save his life. Crosby, can't come up with a good game when you defensively crack down on the low slot. Hank shut him down. Crosby is beatable when you shadow him. Stick someone by the corner of the net and a ton of his points disappear. Datsyuk also makes better decisions, is stronger on the puck, is a better passer, isn't a whiny *****, and actually plays D. Shadow Pavs and he still makes a hell of alot more happen, but the biggest thing is still to me, D. That's the trump card.

If I made a top 10 he'd be on it no question. I don't like him but I don't let that influence what I think. I think it's very important to be honest, more for yourself than anything. But I'd take Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Ovechkin and Malkin over Crosby any day of the week. And if we're not including D, Iginla. Who I also don't like, but will be the first to say he's better than Crosby.

Give Kane a few years and he'll be better too. Crosby is so predictably overrated. I dunno how anyone can pick Crosby with a straight face over even the three players on our own team. Hank is debatable(I'd still take him but I can see how others wouldn't) but over Pav and Lids? Not a chance in hell. I like my players to be able to play defense, not watch from the bench on a PK.

Who do you think was better defensively? Datsyuk, Gretzky or Lemieux?

Now how would you rank those 3 players?

As I've said earlier in this thread, if someone is a better 2 way player, that doesn't mean that they're a better player.

[Broken 16 381]

Who do you think was better defensively? Datsyuk, Gretzky or Lemieux?

Now how would you rank those 3 players?

As I've said earlier in this thread, if someone is a better 2 way player, that doesn't mean that they're a better player.

There isn't a big gap between Datsyuk's offensive capabilities and Crosby's. If any.

[jmad 18]

I hate to get into the discussion this way, but:

Crosby

[StevieY'sguy 1]

There isn't a big gap between Datsyuk's offensive capabilities and Crosby's. If any.

Crosby: 3 100 point regular seasons in 4 years

Datsyuk: 0 100 point regulars seasons in 7 years

Crosby: 1.36 ppg in regular season

Datsyuk: .99ppg in regular season

Crosby: 1.28 ppg in playoffs

Datsyuk: .64 ppg in playoffs

Crosby and Datsyuk have the same amount of career playoff points and Pav has played exactly twice as many games as Sid....Also on top of this Datsyuk has played with MUCH better players throughout the course of his career. Crosby is a better offensive player period.

[Broken 16 381]

Crosby: 3 100 point regular seasons in 4 years

Datsyuk: 0 100 point regulars seasons in 7 years

Crosby: 1.36 ppg in regular season

Datsyuk: .99ppg in regular season

Crosby: 1.28 ppg in playoffs

Datsyuk: .64 ppg in playoffs

Crosby and Datsyuk have the same amount of career playoff points and Pav has played exactly twice as many games as Sid....Also on top of this Datsyuk has played with MUCH better players throughout the course of his career. Crosby is a better offensive player period.

I don't really want to get into a huge debate on why I think Datsyuk is a better all around player than Crosby. Not here anyway. Feel free to PM me if you REALLY want to know.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Yeah buddy whatever you say.

Crosby can't play defense to save his life. Crosby, can't come up with a good game when you defensively crack down on the low slot. Hank shut him down. Crosby is beatable when you shadow him. Stick someone by the corner of the net and a ton of his points disappear. Datsyuk also makes better decisions, is stronger on the puck, is a better passer, isn't a whiny *****, and actually plays D. Shadow Pavs and he still makes a hell of alot more happen, but the biggest thing is still to me, D. That's the trump card.

If I made a top 10 he'd be on it no question. I don't like him but I don't let that influence what I think. I think it's very important to be honest, more for yourself than anything. But I'd take Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Ovechkin and Malkin over Crosby any day of the week. And if we're not including D, Iginla. Who I also don't like, but will be the first to say he's better than Crosby.

Give Kane a few years and he'll be better too. Crosby is so predictably overrated. I dunno how anyone can pick Crosby with a straight face over even the three players on our own team. Hank is debatable(I'd still take him but I can see how others wouldn't) but over Pav and Lids? Not a chance in hell. I like my players to be able to play defense, not watch from the bench on a PK.

Beatable if you shadow him....If by that you mean putting Z,dats (when he was playing), Lids and Rafalski on him like they did during the finals when Sid didnt put up many point then yea i guess so.....by the way how did that end up working our for us?....I'm pretty sure Sid ended up with the cup anyways.....Pav as a better passer? Please, Crosby is the best passer in the game not that dats isnt amazing but crosby is better. Also anyone who says that Crosby doesn't play defense obviously doesn't watch the Pens very often. I'm not here to make the argument that Crosby is a better defender than Pav because he isn't..few are; but the fact of the matter is that Crosby is at least an average defender probably a little above average actually...and getting better. If you want to talk superstars who only play on one end of the ice then let me introduce you to Evgeni Malkin and Alexander Ovechkin. As far as Kane being better than Crosby; if you believe that then you need to watch more hockey... barring injury or a major unforseen drop off in play Patrick Kane will never be better then Crosby,Datsyuk,Ovie,Malkin,or Getzlaf.

[numberthirtynine 0]

Who do you think was better defensively? Datsyuk, Gretzky or Lemieux?

Now how would you rank those 3 players?

As I've said earlier in this thread, if someone is a better 2 way player, that doesn't mean that they're a better player.

It sucks that Crosby and Ovechkin will never be Lemieux or Gretzky. Those two represent those two, not every good one way player in the game.

It could be argued Datsyuk's offense is on par with Crosby's, Crosby just doesn't hurt his stats by backchecking. Pav is a better passer(I'm waiting to be flamed about this but he is), he's a better decision maker, stronger on the puck, etc.

You can go by offensive stats if you like, but we all know the situation and context that isn't written on a stat sheet that make those numbers for all intents and purposes irrelevant.

Beatable if you shadow him....If by that you mean putting Z,dats (when he was playing), Lids and Rafalski on him like they did during the finals when Sid didnt put up many point then yea i guess so.....by the way how did that end up working our for us?

Taking into account the fact we were absolutely ******* screwed out of a Cup we deserved, not well. But could Sid shadow Dats? Not from the bench he can't. And if he's out there 5 on 5, he still couldn't.

Sid is not a better passer than Pav. Sorry, but that's just wrong. Crosby I'd list as the third best behind Thornton and Pavs. Pavs has the best vision and touch I've seen since Gretzky. He doesn't even need to be looking at you, he'll put it on your tape from anywhere on the ice. Crosby racks up assists, which is misleading in the same way QB completion percentage hints at accuracy but doesn't indicate it. He's a good passer. Dats is a freak. Hossa's comments alluded to this too. Crosby is a meh defender. He's JUST been put on penalty kills and is pretty blah at them.

As far as Kane being better than Crosby; if you believe that then you need to watch more hockey

Well if you've the time machine, I've the time. Did you read what I said? You skim more than milk. I see potential in Kane to be top 5. I don't like him but it's what I see there. Not to brag but I've got a pretty good track record. I saw Pavs coming and when I pointed it out, was laughed at. I saw talent in Franzen when no one would call him more than a third line grinder. I've called alot of guys and now, I see it in Kane. I also see it in Jonathan Ericsson. s***...least our guy can lose 20 cents in the couch and not hulk out. There is a chance I'm wrong and Kane just never improves, it's rare but it certainly is possible.

While I'm at it, I'd also take Getzlaf over Crosby.

Edited September 3, 2009 by numberthirtynine

[Broken 16 381]

While I'm at it, I'd also take Getzlaf over Crosby.

In a heartbeat...

[Echolalia 2,961]

I got 9 less votes than last round, folks. At least make it to 30.