Top 20 players

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

PAVEL "DANGLE DANGLE" DATSYUK

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

"gretzky and lemieux weren't two ways players, who would you rather have?!"

"crosby and ovechkin aren't gretzky and lemieux, they don't represent every good two way player in the game"

you didn't have much to say. still don't. so please, show me.

I'm saying that being a two-way player doesn't mean that a guy is better than someone else. Otherwise, Crosby and Malkin and Oveckin shouldn't even be in the top 10 on anyone's list.

I look at it from the standpoint of who is a more dominant force on the ice. To me Crosby is better offensively, and earlier in this thread some poster showed the stats to prove so, so I won't repeat them again. Yeah, Datsyuk has a Selke, but then I could say that Crosby has a Hart, or Malkin has an Art Ross trophy. How many of those trophies has Pavel won.

Crosby is also a captain of his team and a better playoff performer. He didn't score much in the Finals, but neither did anyone on the Wings in the last few games. Likewise, Crosby is better in front of the net, and because of that doesn't go through the types of scoring droughts that Pavel had last year in the playoffs.

Basically, there's plenty of arguments for why Crosby is better and there are some for why Pavel is better. I take the earlier route.

Instead of agreeing to disagree, you end up looking like some 4th grader who can't handle being disagreed with, so you come on here trolling and trying to start s***.

What have you had to say other than the F word and that Pavel has won 2 Selkes and Crosby hasn't?

Edited September 4, 2009 by GMRwings1983

[numberthirtynine 0]

I'm saying that being a two-way player doesn't mean that a guy is better than someone else. Otherwise, Crosby and Malkin and Oveckin shouldn't even be in the top 10 on anyone's list.

Funny, I thought I was on your ignore list.

I'm not picking Pavel just because he's a two way player. I'm sure many other people are in the same boat as me-his offense is close enough that being a two way player can be the deciding factor. It's not just black or white, "is he two way or not".

Again, Sid and Ovie aren't 99 and Lemieux. I'd pick Wayne and Mario over Pavs in most instances, but I'd pick Pavs over Sid and Ovie in most instances as well.

I look at it from the standpoint of who is a more dominant force on the ice. To me Crosby is better offensively, and earlier in this thread some poster showed the stats to prove so

The stats proved nothing. You can't just keep saying "THEY PROVE HE'S BETTER" when I made a point you couldn't refute. Many people did. It's simple-when someone makes a point that one ups yours, you generally try to take logic, use it, and come up with a point that tops the point the other person made. Such is a debate. You're just pretending no one said anything to you. Think Mcfly, think...

so I won't repeat them again. Yeah, Datsyuk has a Selke, but then I could say that Crosby has a Hart, or Malkin has an Art Ross trophy. How many of those trophies has Pavel won.

*facepalm*

When we spoke about trophies, it was because one practically inhibits a player from achieving the statistical requirements to win the other ones. Not a "WHO HAS MORE!?" yelling match. You obviously have just tuned out all the counter points everyone has made against your claim, so I'll put it simply-Crosby, Ovie, Malkin...none of them would crack 100 points or win Hart trophies if they played the D Pavel does. And if you even try to suggest they would, it's just proof to many of our suspicions that you're just talking out of your ass.

Crosby is also a captain of his team and a better playoff performer.

Yeah that finals was something else, huh? Better playoff performer is a debate for another discussion entirely, and I don't think you're capable of having that intelligent discussion. I'd rather have Dats in the playoffs. Keeping the other team from scoring in the West, is alot more impressive to me than pumping out a ton of points while hoping to outscore your opponents in the ugly-contest that is the East.

He didn't score much in the Finals, but neither did anyone on the Wings in the last few games.

the Wings had the distinct disadvantage of being held, clutched, grabbed and being in the sin bin for most of that series from game 3 on. game 3.....wonder why?

Basically, there's plenty of arguments for why Crosby is better and there are some for why Pavel is better. I take the earlier route.

yes, there are. You just duck and dodge anything you can't refute and pretend no one said it. And we can see you do it. That's why you're acting, willingly, like an idiot. Believe me, I'm fair. But if you act like this, I won't hold back. So don't cry to me, this isn't preschool and we're not all here to hold hands and sing songs. Don't be f***in stupid. It's one thing if it's not your fault.

You ignore points. That's all.

Edited September 5, 2009 by numberthirtynine

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Funny, I thought I was on your ignore list.

I'm not picking Pavel just because he's a two way player. I'm sure many other people are in the same boat as me-his offense is close enough that being a two way player can be the deciding factor. It's not just black or white, "is he two way or not".

Again, Sid and Ovie aren't 99 and Lemieux. I'd pick Wayne and Mario over Pavs in most instances, but I'd pick Pavs over Sid and Ovie in most instances as well.

The stats proved nothing. You can't just keep saying "THEY PROVE HE'S BETTER" when I made a point you couldn't refute. Many people did. It's simple-when someone makes a point that one ups yours, you generally try to take logic, use it, and come up with a point that tops the point the other person made. Such is a debate. You're just pretending no one said anything to you. Think Mcfly, think...

*facepalm*

When we spoke about trophies, it was because one practically inhibits a player from achieving the statistical requirements to win the other ones. Not a "WHO HAS MORE!?" yelling match. You obviously have just tuned out all the counter points everyone has made against your claim, so I'll put it simply-Crosby, Ovie, Malkin...none of them would crack 100 points or win Hart trophies if they played the D Pavel does. And if you even try to suggest they would, it's just proof to many of our suspicions that you're just talking out of your ass.

Yeah that finals was something else, huh? Better playoff performer is a debate for another discussion entirely, and I don't think you're capable of having that intelligent discussion. I'd rather have Dats in the playoffs. Keeping the other team from scoring in the West, is alot more impressive to me than pumping out a ton of points while hoping to outscore your opponents in the ugly-contest that is the East.

the Wings had the distinct disadvantage of being held, clutched, grabbed and being in the sin bin for most of that series from game 3 on. game 3.....wonder why?

yes, there are. You just duck and dodge anything you can't refute and pretend no one said it. And we can see you do it. That's why you're acting, willingly, like an idiot. Believe me, I'm fair. But if you act like this, I won't hold back. So don't cry to me, this isn't preschool and we're not all here to hold hands and sing songs. Don't be f***in stupid. It's one thing if it's not your fault.

You ignore points. That's all.

Who's points do I ignore. I've already responded to yours and I don't agree with them. Besides, they weren't that good a points to begin with, except in your own mind. Don't blame me for not being able to change your mind on this issue.

Why is playoff performace for another thread? It definitely belongs in this thread. You just ducked and dodged that argument. Crosby has been a better playoff performer than Datsyuk. I don't think you want to argue it, because you know it's true. That's a very important argument for who's a better player.

Several times in your post you claimed that your were making points that couldn't be refuted. That's all I needed to know about you. You're just some paranoid poster who can't stand being disagreed with.

I've explained my position on this already, yet you still say I duck and dodge issues. I haven't ducked or dodged anything. I've made my point a thousand times already in this thread, as crystal clear as possible. You have poor reading comprehension skills. I don't know what more you want of me?

Get over it. I think Crosby is better than Datsyuk. Don't make me explain why again, because I did that in my last post.

And yeah, acting like a reject is wrong, despite what you say. This isn't preschool, but it isn't a bar either. If you want to be an internet tough guy, go on some other site. People will respect you less if you act like an idiot who's always trying to start some s***. You're taking this all too seriously.

Anyway, enough of this. You're not worth my time writing all this, especially since you're on ignore. I don't relish shooting mosquitos with elephant guns. Have a nice life.

Edited September 5, 2009 by GMRwings1983

[Broken 16 381]

Excuses?

Kid, if you ducked my point some more you'd be switching hemispheres.

You can't take a Selke winners stats, who doesn't have nearly as much offensive ice time, and compare it to a player who doesn't play D, doesn't play on the PK and spends more ice time, spending it on offense.

Stop avoiding it, you're being a coward.

And I completely countered it, to which you replied with silence quieter than a corpse.

What "most people" think doesn't mean more to me than the dogs*** in my backyard.

Security in numbers, huh? Keep piping and ignoring logic.

Yeah, my feelings. I also let LOGIC get in the way, too. Presumptuous f***wit.

When you whine like a *****, pout after losses, refuse to give credit to players better than you who PROVE it, and have an inflated sense of entitlement about everything....you are in fact, a s***ty captain. A good captain leads by example. Stevie Y. Nick. Sakic.

LMMFAO

That is the stupidest ******* thing I've ever read. You can be a s***ty captain and win. Captain's don't dictate Cup wins. Moreso their personalities. Yeah, I'm an *******. I'm a whiner. I'm a dirty player. My TEAM won a Cup. I'm instantly lifted of these flaws and I'm a great captain.

If you said the sky was blue, he would say it was red. You're wasting too much time on him.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

If you said the sky was blue, he would say it was red. You're wasting too much time on him.

More like vice versa.

I wish Echolalia would just tally up the votes already so that we can move on.

However, I plan on voting Malkin next, so I know he'll give me the same s*** again.

[Guest micah]

[quote name='GMRwings1983' date='September 4, 2009 - 09:

However, I plan on voting Malkin next, so I know he'll give me the same s*** again.

Malkin? How can he be great, he isn't even a Red Wing?!

[newfy 695]

[quote name='GMRwings1983' date='September 4, 2009 - 09:

However, I plan on voting Malkin next, so I know he'll give me the same s*** again.

Malkin? How can he be great, he isn't even a Red Wing?!

Good point and he doesn't play both ways. Maybe I'll vote Travis Moen next since he's a great penalty killer and plays some 2 way hockey, that seems to be the deciding factor.

[numberthirtynine 0]

^Sad that some people just take sides without reading. I directly addressed this by saying it's not the deciding factor. READ.

Who's points do I ignore. I've already responded to yours and I don't agree with them. Besides, they weren't that good a points to begin with, except in your own mind. Don't blame me for not being able to change your mind on this issue.

smh...

Why is playoff performace for another thread? It definitely belongs in this thread. You just ducked and dodged that argument.

Cute, it's mimicking me. Playoff performance will spawn a dozen different forms of debate. Do you really want to add to this? When you can barely hang as it is?

Crosby has been a better playoff performer than Datsyuk. I don't think you want to argue it, because you know it's true. That's a very important argument for who's a better player.

Datsyuk plays on the PK and shadows opposing star players. In a stupidly difficult Western conf. Crosby just plays balls to the wall offense int he East. It all

I said this last post. YOu just repeated yourself. "CROSBY IS BETTER". How about actually addressing what I say? Well, why bother right? Your friends will see you getting owned and come to your rescue.

Several times in your post you claimed that your were making points that couldn't be refuted. That's all I needed to know about you. You're just some paranoid poster who can't stand being disagreed with.

then why did the other guy not get the treatment you did? maybe, and you'd have to swallow your pride here for a second-you just dont' try to debate, you regurgitate and hope no one notices. i point out how sid and ovie aren't in the same league as waybe and mario. i point out why they don't represent great one way players throughout the league, as you were suggesting.

you said nothing to counter it.

i pointed out how datsyuk might have it a little tougher, esp given his role, in the playoffs. you just repeated yourself and didn't try to form a counter point. i pointed out how the stats were misleading and could not prove anything. And I wasn't the only one. You didn't have anything to say to that. I don't expect anything less than the masses siding with you, seeing as how i don't pull any bulls*** when someone is willingly being an idiot. but c'mon, at least try.

You think a counter point is just saying what you said before.

You have poor reading comprehension skills. I don't know what more you want of me?

Lmmfao. Someone takes up permanent residence in lala land. I could point out that gravity exists and you'd tell me it doesn't. Upon proving it does, multiple ways, you'd just tell me..........it doesn't.

If you want to be an internet tough guy, go on some other site. People will respect you less if you act like an idiot who's always trying to start some s***. You're taking this all too seriously.

Lol you must be confused. I tell you very casually to f*** off. And I'll do it to anyone who acts like you do. We're adults, get over it. You purposely acted like a coward. So don't put on the babe in the woods routine now.

You could've just actually tried to debate this instead of just chanting "I'm right" without giving reasons.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

^Sad that some people just take sides without reading. I directly addressed this by saying it's not the deciding factor. READ.

smh...

Cute, it's mimicking me. Playoff performance will spawn a dozen different forms of debate. Do you really want to add to this? When you can barely hang as it is?

Datsyuk plays on the PK and shadows opposing star players. In a stupidly difficult Western conf. Crosby just plays balls to the wall offense int he East. It all

I said this last post. YOu just repeated yourself. "CROSBY IS BETTER". How about actually addressing what I say? Well, why bother right? Your friends will see you getting owned and come to your rescue.

then why did the other guy not get the treatment you did? maybe, and you'd have to swallow your pride here for a second-you just dont' try to debate, you regurgitate and hope no one notices. i point out how sid and ovie aren't in the same league as waybe and mario. i point out why they don't represent great one way players throughout the league, as you were suggesting.

you said nothing to counter it.

i pointed out how datsyuk might have it a little tougher, esp given his role, in the playoffs. you just repeated yourself and didn't try to form a counter point. i pointed out how the stats were misleading and could not prove anything. And I wasn't the only one. You didn't have anything to say to that. I don't expect anything less than the masses siding with you, seeing as how i don't pull any bulls*** when someone is willingly being an idiot. but c'mon, at least try.

You think a counter point is just saying what you said before.

Lmmfao. Someone takes up permanent residence in lala land. I could point out that gravity exists and you'd tell me it doesn't. Upon proving it does, multiple ways, you'd just tell me..........it doesn't.

Lol you must be confused. I tell you very casually to f*** off. And I'll do it to anyone who acts like you do. We're adults, get over it. You purposely acted like a coward. So don't put on the babe in the woods routine now.

You could've just actually tried to debate this instead of just chanting "I'm right" without giving reasons.

You're just a wannabee internet tough guy who hasn't really made any points worth debating, thus you resort to personal attacks like some middle schooler, which for all I know is exactly who you are. Nobody is defending me because they like me, they just realize how silly and childish you sound trying to turn this into a flame war.

Let's see. What have you said worth responding to?

Datsyuk is better as a two way player. You're right he is. I've admitted so a million times. What more do you want me to say?

Playoff performance is a debate I'd easily win, since Crosby has been better than Datsyuk. No wonder you're avoiding that issue. Other posters chose Crosby because of his playoff performances. Not judging playoff play is a mistake since that is a very important piece of the pie. If a guy is underperforming in the playoffs, he's not going to get my vote over another great player who's playing better and stepping up in the clutch. What was your argument to counter that? Oh wait, you just ducked it.

I don't buy that whole Eastern Conference crap, or that officials help Crosby crap. Those are just excuses. Crosby gets hacked around as much as any player in the league, as the Flyers and Capitals tried to do. He just handles it better than Pavel does. I think he'd do just as well in the West as the East. That's what elite players do. Also, I don't think the West is way tougher than the East. You're just guessing that he wouldn't be as good in the West, but where's your proof for that? It's the easiest argument in the world. Crosby is in the East and the refs help him. How do I respond to such childish s***? The Wings get lots of PP's too. It all evens out and is a poor excuse.

You really have no arguments on your side, other than Datsyuk is better two-ways, stats are misleading (which goes both ways), and that Crosby plays in an easier Conference (good luck proving that). Since you have no leg to stand on, you're going to respond to my post like a 7th grader now. Go ahead, embarass yourself some more.

Edited September 5, 2009 by GMRwings1983

[GoWings1905 2,694]

You're just a wannabee internet tough guy who hasn't really made any points worth debating, thus you resort to personal attacks like some middle schooler, which for all I know is exactly who you are. Nobody is defending me because they like me, they just realize how silly and childish you sound trying to turn this into a flame war.

Let's see. What have you said worth responding to?

Datsyuk is better as a two way player. You're right he is. I've admitted so a million times. What more do you want me to say?

Playoff performance is a debate I'd easily win, since Crosby has been better than Datsyuk. No wonder you're avoiding that issue. Other posters chose Crosby because of his playoff performances. Not judging playoff play is a mistake since that is a very important piece of the pie. If a guy is underperforming in the playoffs, he's not going to get my vote over another great player who's playing better and stepping up in the clutch. What was your argument to counter that? Oh wait, you just ducked it.

I don't buy that whole Eastern Conference crap, or that officials help Crosby crap. Those are just excuses. Crosby gets hacked around as much as any player in the league, as the Flyers and Capitals tried to do. He just handles it better than Pavel does. I think he'd do just as well in the West as the East. That's what elite players do. Also, I don't think the West is way tougher than the East. You're just guessing that he wouldn't be as good in the West, but where's your proof for that? It's the easiest argument in the world. Crosby is in the East and the refs help him. How do I respond to such childish s***? The Wings get lots of PP's too. It all evens out and is a poor excuse.

You really have no arguments on your side, other than Datsyuk is better two-ways, stats are misleading (which goes both ways), and that Crosby plays in an easier Conference (good luck proving that). Since you have no leg to stand on, you're going to respond to my post like a 7th grader now. Go ahead, embarass yourself some more.

Great point GMR. This is the exact reason why I put Crosby ahead of Datsyuk. It is the same reason I will probably vote for Z ahead of Datsyuk too.

[numberthirtynine 0]

You're just a wannabee internet tough guy who hasn't really made any points worth debating, thus you resort to personal attacks like some middle schooler, which for all I know is exactly who you are. Nobody is defending me because they like me, they just realize how silly and childish you sound trying to turn this into a flame war.

Right bud, whatever you say. Now you're deeming certain points not worth responding to? Why not just wave the white flag of defeat?

Datsyuk is better as a two way player. You're right he is. I've admitted so a million times. What more do you want me to say?

This is so NOT what I was saying. Not like this.

Playoff performance is a debate I'd easily win, since Crosby has been better than Datsyuk. No wonder you're avoiding that issue.

I JUST TALKED ABOUT IT. The hell are you talking about avoiding it? See? This is what I mean-you don't actually read what people say.

Other posters chose Crosby because of his playoff performances. Not judging playoff play is a mistake since that is a very important piece of the pie. If a guy is underperforming in the playoffs, he's not going to get my vote over another great player who's playing better and stepping up in the clutch. What was your argument to counter that? Oh wait, you just ducked it.

Datsyuk plays on the PK and shadows opposing star players. In a stupidly difficult Western conf. Crosby just plays balls to the wall offense int he East. It all

That was my response. I haven't ducked a word anyone has ever said to me on this site and you know it. Just incase you'll play the "wasn't worth responding to" card which I could jsut pull blindly for everything you said but don't, I'll elaborate.

Playoff performance is about winning, not scoring points. What do you do that helps your team win? What do you contribute? Datsyuk contributes offense and defensive play. When he's not contributing offense, he's shutting down opponents who do. Crosby doesn't do this but scores a ton of points and plays great in rounds against Eastern teams. It then winds up in a debate over which is more important. I'm willing to have a logical debate about it but you've practically got your hands on CTRL V telling me "Crosby is better because he scores more points, period". No context. No reasons. Just point totals equal being better. If you think the officials didn't hand them wins when they were in danger of missing the postseason, or help them past Washington, you're just trying to make the argument easier for yourself. I watched it happen to the Caps when they started playing better, I saw it happen to us, I've seen it happen to numerous teams. When you wear yellow, you have a whole different set of penalties, different from everyone else.

I think he'd do just as well in the West as the East.

I don't know if his teams would advance half as far playing in the West. And Crosby's only mentioned because his team advances as far as they do. A high scorer on a losing team is never remembered.

Also, I don't think the West is way tougher than the East. You're just guessing that he wouldn't be as good in the West, but where's your proof for that? It's the easiest argument in the world. Crosby is in the East and the refs help him. How do I respond to such childish s***? The Wings get lots of PP's too. It all evens out and is a poor excuse.

The West thing is what I would guess would happen. But the ref thing, all you have to do is pop in tape of this years postseason. It's all there.

You really have no arguments on your side, other than Datsyuk is better two-ways, stats are misleading (which goes both ways)

YOU HAVEN'T COUNTERED ANYTHING I'VE SAID. lmmfao you can't just SAY you did without doing it. we can all go back and read every reply smart guy.

It's not just as black or white as being "two way or not". Mr. interpretation skills needs to have a meeting with Mr. readmyf***inreplies. I stated this fact in no uncertain or difficult to understand terms. I just think you're angry, I've gotten under your skin, and you're far too proud to admit I said something you couldn't counter. Many of us did. The stats are misleading for the very reasons I pointed out. If you're that lazy, I'll re-quote it for you.

I never had a problem with your disagreeing. I had a problem with you failing to reply to logic. It's why YOU were attacked and no one else. Stop ducking that point and address it already. You're just projecting your "hate being disagreed with" flaw onto others. It's typical human behavior but stil. I touched on all of these things you mentioned. Would you deny them if I put them in a nice, tidy post, quote after quote? And you do the same with yours? Because you're clearly the one who doesn't have a leg to stand on and I can prove it. Because I already have. I'm here. Where are you? Ball's in your court.

Edited September 5, 2009 by numberthirtynine

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Datsyuk went on scoring droughts that Crosby doesn't go on in the playoffs. Yeah, he contributes defensively, but if your best player scores 1 goal in the playoffs, I don't give a s*** how well he plays defensively. Datsyuk had a terrible playoff for us, and his disappearing acts aren't excused by two-way play, or even by injuries, since he sucked in the first half of the playoffs too, before he was injured.

A star player's first job is to score points. If he can't do that in the playoffs, everything else is minimized. You put too much stock into Pavel's defense. I don't put that much stock in it. Yeah, I look at scoring from a star forward more than I look at all-around ability.

Now I've countered pretty much everything you said, unless I missed anything. There's no real way to respond to the officiating thing, because it's a paranoid argument. Yeah, the Pens get breaks from the refs, but other fans say the same thing about the Wings. No one ever thinks that their team is getting a fair deal from the refs. Besides, the Wings had enough PP's in the playoffs, so that Datsyuk should have had more points while on that PP. Hank and Franzen didn't seem to have a problem scoring on the PP's, so I'm not going to give Datsyuk the benefit of the doubt. If he played like he did in the last few playoffs, I probably would have picked him ahead of Crosby. However, he went down a notch for this last performance, thus I currently rank Crosby ahead of him.

Let's just agree to disagree, because you're new to this flame war thing, and I can tell you that no one's mind is going to be changed.

[egroen 384]

Great point GMR. This is the exact reason why I put Crosby ahead of Datsyuk. It is the same reason I will probably vote for Z ahead of Datsyuk too.

Zetterberg's health and regular season play is exactly why I still would put him behind Datsyuk.

This whole Crosby vs. Datsyuk is like Lemieux vs. Gretzky -- you might think Lemieux was a better player and had more talent than Gretzky, but you really can't rank him ahead of Gretzky simply because he didn't actually accomplish it, and Gretzky did.

I may think Datsyuk right now brings more to the table than Crosby, but he simply has not backed up my opinion of him in the playoffs, outside of 2008.... not yet. So I have to vote on tangible results, and that puts Crosby ahead of Datsyuk for me. Datsyuk has an edge in the regular season IMO, but Crosby has given himself more of an edge in the playoffs. I also factor injuries, and for 2 of 4 years, Datsyuk has now been injured in the playoffs, making him less valuable to his team.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Zetterberg's health and regular season play is exactly why I still would put him behind Datsyuk.

This whole Crosby vs. Datsyuk is like Lemieux vs. Gretzky -- you might think Lemieux was a better player and had more talent than Gretzky, but you really can't rank him ahead of Gretzky simply because he didn't actually accomplish it, and Gretzky did.

I may think Datsyuk right now brings more to the table than Crosby, but he simply has not backed up my opinion of him in the playoffs, outside of 2008.... not yet. So I have to vote on tangible results, and that puts Crosby ahead of Datsyuk for me. Datsyuk has an edge in the regular season IMO, but Crosby has given himself more of an edge in the playoffs. I also factor injuries, and for 2 of 4 years, Datsyuk has now been injured in the playoffs, making him less valuable to his team.

I agree with you, but why would you say Datsyuk has been better in the regular season than Crosby? I think it's about even, but I'd give Crosby the edge there. In the playoffs, it's not even close, though.

[egroen 384]

I agree with you, but why would you say Datsyuk has been better in the regular season than Crosby? I think it's about even, but I'd give Crosby the edge there. In the playoffs, it's not even close, though.

Crosby has also been injured in the regular season, which I count as a negative (you do nothing for your team when you are not playing).

In the past two seasons Datsyuk has 194 pts to Crosby's 175.

Including the past 3 seasons it is Datsyuk 281 to Crosby's 295 -- Datsyuk's two-way play more than makes up for the point gap.

Edited September 5, 2009 by egroen

[Zetts 236]

Ok, this seems to have turned into Datsyuk vs Crosby. I may have missed the post where the OP made that the new thing we're voting on, but I skimmed and couldn't find it.

So, I'll depart from everyone else, avoid the flame war and say Zetterberg.

Better in the playoffs than Datsyuk and more complete than Crosby. I think his defensive play is better than Datsyuk's too.

[Lamothe 5]

1. Ovechkin

2. Crosby (Though I belive his immaturity is a huge issue, both as Captain of his team and as a player)

3. Datsyuk

4. Lidstrom

5. Malkin (Also a problem with immaturity)

6. Kovalchuk

7. Zetterberg

8. Getzlaf

9. Thornton (Choke extreme in playoffs)

10. Boyle

[Guest Shoreline]

I'll go with 10..

Aaron Downey

Derek Boogaard

Chris Neil

Gino Odjick

Hanson brothers

Sidney Crosby

Kirk Maltby

Ken Shamrock

Dmitri Bykov

Jason Williams

[Lamothe 5]

I'll go with 10..

Aaron Downey

Derek Boogaard

Chris Neil

Gino Odjick

Hanson brothers

Sidney Crosby

Kirk Maltby

Ken Shamrock

Dmitri Bykov

Jason Williams

I love your 10. Especially Gino and the Hanson's.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Datsyuk-AGAIN

Seriously, what is wrong with people....Crosby?

Ovechkin often gets top billing because his point totals are always amongst the best but his goals scored totals absolutely blow people out of the water. For a purely offensive guy to be rated higher than someone like Datsyuk or Hank, in my mind they would have to be far ahead offensively.

Crosby if not far ahead of Datsyuk offensively.

We aren't talking about 3 years ago or 2 years ago even. We're talking about who is the best now.

What do we have to go on here recently? The most recent season.

Well, Datsyuk was nominated for ******* MVP of the league. Crosby = NOT

Datsyuk won the Selke trophy. Crosby = NOT even a nominee.

I think it'd be pretty obvious that a guy who scores 95+ points and wins back to back defensive forward of the year awards is a better hockey player than the guy who scores 115+ points simply because his game is geared towards offense at all times and is one of the least likely candidates to be killing off crucial penalties for his team.

Datsyuk = guy you can put out in any situation and likely the best guy you can put out in any situation

Crosby = has a long way to go to get that recognition

Datsyuk still is #1 and should've been #1, even over Nick. We'll see further proof of that this year as Datsyuk continues through the prime years of his career while Nick continues to slide from his perch that was light years ahead of all other dmen.

[pockets 9]

i think if you asked most people on here would agree that if guys like Ovie, Geno and Sid continue to improve then yeah when they are dats and Zs age they will be better then they were at that age

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Datsyuk-AGAIN

Seriously, what is wrong with people....Crosby?

Ovechkin often gets top billing because his point totals are always amongst the best but his goals scored totals absolutely blow people out of the water. For a purely offensive guy to be rated higher than someone like Datsyuk or Hank, in my mind they would have to be far ahead offensively.

Crosby if not far ahead of Datsyuk offensively.

We aren't talking about 3 years ago or 2 years ago even. We're talking about who is the best now.

What do we have to go on here recently? The most recent season.

Well, Datsyuk was nominated for ******* MVP of the league. Crosby = NOT

Datsyuk won the Selke trophy. Crosby = NOT even a nominee.

I think it'd be pretty obvious that a guy who scores 95+ points and wins back to back defensive forward of the year awards is a better hockey player than the guy who scores 115+ points simply because his game is geared towards offense at all times and is one of the least likely candidates to be killing off crucial penalties for his team.

Datsyuk = guy you can put out in any situation and likely the best guy you can put out in any situation

Crosby = has a long way to go to get that recognition

Datsyuk still is #1 and should've been #1, even over Nick. We'll see further proof of that this year as Datsyuk continues through the prime years of his career while Nick continues to slide from his perch that was light years ahead of all other dmen.

Scoring 1 goal the entire playoffs doesn't make Datsyuk look very good. As I've already said, your star players are supposed to score in big moments first and foremost. If they also play great defensively, then that's an added bonus. Pavel just didn't cut it in the clutch. If Crosby was great defensively and scored 1 goal in the playoffs, I'd have voted Datsyuk ahead of him.

Besides, the MVP nomination didn't go to Crosby because he was injured more than the other candidates were. Crosby already has an MVP and an Art Ross. Datsyuk doesn't.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Voting is closed for round three with a total of 27 votes again.

Here's how everything turned out:

Crosby: 12 votes (44.44%)

Datsyuk: 11 votes (40.74%)

Malkin: 2 votes (7.41%)

Downey and Zetterberg: 1 vote each (3.7%)

1) Ovechkin

2) Lidstrom

3) Crosby

Now lets get started on voting for the 4th best player in the league (or the best player in the league not including Ovechkin, Lidstrom, or Crosby). Remember, bold your vote to make it easier for me to include it in the tally. Its a bit difficult to rummage through the debates for people's votes (but debating is fun so keep that up, too).

My vote goes to Dats for 4th best.

[55fan 5,133]

Definately Pavel Datsyuk.

Edited September 6, 2009 by 55fan