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j.hoop

Is Datsyuk a lock for the Selke?

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  1. 1. Is Datsyuk a lock for the Selke?

  2. 2. Will Datsyuk win the Selke?


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73 posts in this topic

Can Kesler do this?

Or this?

Funny you should ask

Skip to 2:50

Such short memories we have

Datsyuk isn't a lock, but he should be considered among the front runners because he's still having an excellent season and is the defending champ. I honestly don't see him winning it, but I'm hoping.

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Datsyuk won't win for the following reasons:

A.Lack of blocked shots

B.Lack of penalty kill time

C.Won the award twice in a row

D.He's having a down year offensively

E.Kesler has all the hype from the media and the Olympics only bolstered him.

F.Media isn't behind Datsyuk this time around.

G.Too many perceived struggles from Datsyuk and the Wings as a whole.

For all these reasons Kesler will win the award instead of Datsyuk whether I agree with the decision or not.

Edited by thedatsyukian

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I'd be willing to bet it will be Kesler. These awards usually end up going to the most popular candidate, and even though it wasn't the NHL, the olympic tournament got Kesler a lot of momentum in the media. Datsyuk's reduced offensive numbers will be enough an excuse for the voters to pick Kesler.

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The Selke trophy in particular is a spectator trophy and that's all there is to it. Takeaways count sure, but those stats can be a bit inflated due to takeaways in the offensive zone. I mean guys can steal pucks in the offensive zone all they want, but does it mean they're remarkably responsible in their own end? Not always. The Selke trophy is a spectator trophy and that's all there is to it. Sure you can include +/- and PK efficiency, but there are still variables.

A player's name who hasn't come up (or at least I don't think) is Mike Richards... Ever watch this dude play? He gives it his all everywhere, every shift. Same goes with Alfredsson. If takeaways is such a factor, then why are guys like Maxim Afinogenov and Joe Thornton up there in that stat? They will never win a Selke in any lifetime. Why hasn't Mike Fisher's name come up either?

I'm not excusing Kesler and Datsyuk, because yes, they could be the front runners... But not on lock. They are top two in takeaways is that why?

Richards

Alfredsson

Fisher

Zetterberg

Burrows

Callahan

M. Koivu

J. Staal

Toews

... some guys to consider

And yes, I wouldn't have a hard time knowing Crosby would be getting votes. WATCH HIM PLAY, he is a workhorse in both ends.

When it's all said and done, I'd love to see Datsyuk get another one, he's one of my faves... But at the same time, Mike Richards deserves equal consideration, and it's unreal to see his name not mentioned.

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If Dats keeps putting up these numbers for the last 13(hehe)games, his point total would be like 84 points (assuming he gets 2 ponts per game) Hell if he averages 3 points per game for the final 13he'll hit 97 lol

lil Wing's fan likes this

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This is the hardest award to judge, because it's not something regular fans can see as well as coaches. It's not a statistical award per se.

Because of his and the team's underachieving season, plus the fact that he doesn't have many short-handed goals, plus the fact that he's won it twice in a row (meaning they'd rather give it to someone else), makes me say that he won't win it.

This. Like the Norris, its a trophy that's won in the media during the season, and no journalist has been saying much of a good thing about him this year.

That, plus whilst he leads all Wings forwards with a +13, that's only good for 27th in the NHL. The previous 3 years he's led all forwards in +/-. Face-off % is pretty impressive though.

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Detroit 9.2PM/game

Vancouver 15.somethingPM/game.

Here is why the PK time is that different.

SO yeah datsyuk is just Better. Kesler has more PK time because his team takes more penalties.

And as far as those takeaways videos, we have 2 of datsyuk for one of kesler. So short memories maybe, but still datsyuk is above.

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Its sad to see that in order to get a Selke now a days you have to have some offensive output. What about the guys that can just plan out shut down a top line? I have always viewed the Selke as a role players trophy.

Edited by dragonballgtz
zettsyukwall415 likes this

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Here is why the PK time is that different.

SO yeah datsyuk is just Better. Kesler has more PK time because his team takes more penalties.

It's not that simple when you examine more of the details of each of their respective SH TOI.

What about the fact that Kesler is 2nd among VAN forwards in SH TOI while Datsyuk is 8th (or for all intents and purposes 7th since Malts is out injured)?

Kesler is on the first string of forwards for the PK while Pav may or may not even get out there these days since Babs double shifts Helm and Eaves and still has to give time to Miller, Filppula, Cleary and Zetterberg. In fact, if you were to look up Pav on a situational ice time chart you would see that his PK time is virtually non-existent since Z and Cleary returned from injury.

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Its sad to see that in order to get a Selke now a days you have to have some offensive output. What about the guys that can just plan out shut down a top line? I have always viewed the Selke as a role players trophy.

It's a worthy observation. Before the lockout you had Madden, Peca (who has 2), Lehtinen (3) and Draper. After you had Brind'Amour with 2 and then Pav with 2 in which neither of them scored less than 80 points in a season. That's not just 'some' offensive output, that's scoring line output.

Just another thing you could perhaps chalk up to the league having to sell the game and promote their offensive stars as much as possible.

zettsyukwall415 likes this

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It's a worthy observation. Before the lockout you had Madden, Peca (who has 2), Lehtinen (3) and Draper. After you had Brind'Amour with 2 and then Pav with 2 in which neither of them scored less than 80 points in a season. That's not just 'some' offensive output, that's scoring line output.

Just another thing you could perhaps chalk up to the league having to sell the game and promote their offensive stars as much as possible.

Or you could look at it that the best defensive player those seasons also happened to be offensively talented. I believe they're called "2-way players"

You also forgot to mention that Francis, Yzerman and Federov (twice) won it pre-lockout. And that Lehtinen has five 20 goal and two 30 goal seasons.

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Yeah, but I thought Selke was "two way forward", much like Norris and it's "two way defenseman" category.

But ya...

MIKE RICHARDS

Just some thought...

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If Dats keeps putting up these numbers for the last 13(hehe)games, his point total would be like 84 points (assuming he gets 2 ponts per game) Hell if he averages 3 points per game for the final 13he'll hit 97 lol

Not sure what this has to do with the Selke, but I'm not sure how you get 84pts. If he continues to put up "these numbers", what numbers are you referring to? 2pts in his last 2 games? That would have him finish with 71pts. 4pts in his last 5 games? That woudl have him finish with 68pts. 9pts in his last 8 games? That would have him finish with 73pts. I have no idea where you are getting 84pts.

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I would love to see it happen. I have a feeling, though, that the powers that be won't see it the way we do.

As far as the PK, I watch Darren and Patrick out there and they remind me of watching Kirk Maltby and Kris Draper do the same thing. We all know how lethal a PK pairing they have been. Now we have a new version of Malts and Drapes. Add in Drew Miller and we've got a pretty damn good trio of fellows out there. So that takes a weight off of guys like Pasha and even Henrik as far as having to kill penalties.

I know Pasha's numbers have been down all season, but whose hasn't???

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wait, is selke "best defensive forward" or "best two-way" forward. because that makes a hell of a lot of difference IMO.

but, no, dats won't win it this year. if he hadn't won the last two, maybe. but they're itching to give it to someone else. and with the lack of media hype and lack of team success (and lack of personal success at times throughout this season) they'll be sure to get a fresh face in.

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Who cares if Dats wins it this year. He won it twice and everybody in the league and the fans know that he´s the best 2way guy. I guarantee you the only thing that matters to Pav anyway is making the playoffs and winning the cup and not individual awards.

Edited by Zohan Franzen

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He had a pretty nice takeaway last night. Though you could really tell they were shadowing him really closely.

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Pasha gets double and triple-teamed constantly. The opposition is all over him like fleas on a dog and yet he somehow manages to slip away or finds a teammate to pass to. I am constantly amazed by his skills.

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I think he is far and away the best defensive forward in the league and his takeaways blow everyone else out of the water. I would say yes he is a lock for his 3rd straight Selke. Discuss.

edit: Added another question. Yes they are different.

If Kesler doesn't win the Selke then the voting is seriously flawed. Pavs has the takeaways, but Kelser has every other stat.

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If Kesler doesn't win the Selke then the voting is seriously flawed. Pavs has the takeaways, but Kelser has every other stat.

What stats are those?

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wait, is selke "best defensive forward" or "best two-way" forward. because that makes a hell of a lot of difference IMO.

but, no, dats won't win it this year. if he hadn't won the last two, maybe. but they're itching to give it to someone else. and with the lack of media hype and lack of team success (and lack of personal success at times throughout this season) they'll be sure to get a fresh face in.

It's supposed to be for "the forward who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game" which to me means defensive forward, especially since Bob Gainey was the one who basically inspired them to create the award. More often than not though, it's best two-way forward.

Drapes and Madden are the only two recent guys I can think of who best fit the defensive forward description, though there may be others I'm forgetting. And even then Draper didn't win it until the year he scored 24 goals.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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