72 replies to this topic

[j.hoop]

I think he is far and away the best defensive forward in the league and his takeaways blow everyone else out of the water. I would say yes he is a lock for his 3rd straight Selke. Discuss.



edit: Added another question. Yes they are different.

Edited by j.hoop, 16 March 2010 - 02:21 PM.

[cjm502]

But he also has more giveaways than the other takeaway leaders.

[dat's sick]

Didn't he win by like 1 vote last year?

I definitely don't think he's a lock. He's crazy with the takeaways but I'm not sure it will be enough to make up for his decreased offensive output and PK time.

[NeverForgetMac25]

The fact that he's got the most takeaway's in the league is great, but the seperation between him and everyone else in the league in the takeaway department is mind-boggling.

Pav's puck-handling and ability to not only create space but to hold the puck in tight areas are second to absolutely no one IMO. He's does it so many times night-in and night-out that its probably the reason he has more giveaways than the rest of the candidates.

Edited by NeverForgetMac25, 16 March 2010 - 02:41 PM.
Clarity

[BamaWing]

I honestly believe he will. I think the only reason he may not win it is because he's won it the past 2 years so they might feel like they need to give it to Kesler or someone else

[kylee]

The fact that he's got the most takeaway's in the league is nice, but the difference between him and everyone else in the league is mind-boggling.

are you saying Datsyuk is that much better or there are better candidates for the Selke?

Datsyuk's productivity has sky-rocketed into the Datsyuk we all know and love, but it's not like his first half was devastation, but i think that will make the votes turn away from him.

[Konnan511]

Didn't he win by like 1 vote last year?

I definitely don't think he's a lock. He's crazy with the takeaways but I'm not sure it will be enough to make up for his decreased offensive output and PK time.

Won by 3 votes and was blown out in first place votes, but also split with Zata. This time around Zata won't get those same votes.

[Z and D for the C]

I don't think he will. His production is way down as is his +/-. He'll be in the running, but I don't think he'll win it.

[NeverForgetMac25]

are you saying Datsyuk is that much better or there are better candidates for the Selke?

Datsyuk's productivity has sky-rocketed into the Datsyuk we all know and love, but it's not like his first half was devastation, but i think that will make the votes turn away from him.

I meant in regards to takeaways only. I can see how that was confusing, so I edited my original post for clarity.

[j.hoop]

I don't think he will. His production is way down as is his +/-. He'll be in the running, but I don't think he'll win it.

when i look around the internet, it seems like the two front runners are kesler and datsyuk.

datsyuks +/- is +13
keslers +/- is +4


datsyuks takeaways 106, giveaways 64. +42 takeaways
keslers takeaways 71, giveaways 21. +50 takeaways

datsyuks SH TOI around 60mins
keslers SH TOI around 158mins

datsyuks points 58
kelsers points 64


the only area where the numbers are quite different are SH TOI.

[toby91_ca]

when i look around the internet, it seems like the two front runners are kesler and datsyuk.

datsyuks +/- is +13
keslers +/- is +4


datsyuks takeaways 106, giveaways 64. +42 takeaways
keslers takeaways 71, giveaways 21. +50 takeaways

datsyuks SH TOI around 60mins
keslers SH TOI around 158mins

datsyuks points 58
kelsers points 64


the only area where the numbers are quite different are SH TOI.

The problem I have is the PK time. If Datsyu is the best defensive forward in the league, why is there 7 forwards on his team that have more PK time then him? Kesler is Vancouver's first choice on the PK. Also, Kesler's 66 blocked shots blows Datsyuk's 25 out of the water.

[jeff48109]

Who are the other legit choices? other than Kesler

[j.hoop]

The problem I have is the PK time. If Datsyu is the best defensive forward in the league, why is there 7 forwards on his team that have more PK time then him? Kesler is Vancouver's first choice on the PK. Also, Kesler's 66 blocked shots blows Datsyuk's 25 out of the water.

the only answer i see to that is the addition of helm, eaves, and miller who are better suited to block shots and take the body on the PK. why have your star player do it when you have 3 role players who are as good if not better for that duty?

another curious stat which is probably not taken into consideration is how many goals have been scored on either of them during SH TOI. im either overlooking these or cannot find them.

[rkade]

Can Kesler do this?

Or this?

[Carman]

I'd say Sidney Crosby. Between face-offs and points he's one of the best overall player this season.

Kesler and Datsyuk are far and away the two best though. Still think Datsyuk has an edge, but Kesler is closing in.

[GordieSid&Ted]

The fact that he's got the most takeaway's in the league is great, but the seperation between him and everyone else in the league in the takeaway department is mind-boggling.

Pav's puck-handling and ability to not only create space but to hold the puck in tight areas are second to absolutely no one IMO. He's does it so many times night-in and night-out that its probably the reason he has more giveaways than the rest of the candidates.

No other player in the league can accelerate trough the center of the neutral zone, back off 3 defenders, hold the puck to where two of them are within poke check range, decelerate and then pass the puck off to either the left or right side with just enough velocity that the recipient can take the pass in stride.

He does it effortlessly. He does it multiple times every game. Defenders know he's going to dish. Yet they still have to respect him and don't want to look like tards. What gets me is that they know he's coming right at them, right up the middle and yet they can't stand him up and when 9 out of 10 players would dish the puck, Pavel holds it another 1 or 2 seconds before dishing it off.

Seriously, defenders are well within poke check reach of Pav when he gains the zone yet they can't get that puck, and as soon as they do go for it, Pav is a split second faster in dishing it off. It's a thing of beauty and one of the many reasons why he supplanted Ciccarelli and Shanahan as the all time favorite player I ever got to watch.

He's amazing. And that little stickhandle he made right before blistering that top shelf, wrister last night. What a slick little move. Calgary forward went for the puck, pav with the quick stickhandle around him and BANG!

I could go on and on about Pav for hours.

Will he win Selke? Things like that go in stages. Somebody usually becomes the flavor of the year or years. That said, I think Pav, with his highlight reel takeaways (like the one he scored on Luongo I think) are keeping him in the forefront. That and everyone knows he backchecks like a demon and kills penalties.

Most complete player in the league. And still better than Zetterberg Eva.

[GMRwings1983]

This is the hardest award to judge, because it's not something regular fans can see as well as coaches. It's not a statistical award per se.

Because of his and the team's underachieving season, plus the fact that he doesn't have many short-handed goals, plus the fact that he's won it twice in a row (meaning they'd rather give it to someone else), makes me say that he won't win it.

[GordieSid&Ted]

The problem I have is the PK time. If Datsyu is the best defensive forward in the league, why is there 7 forwards on his team that have more PK time then him? Kesler is Vancouver's first choice on the PK. Also, Kesler's 66 blocked shots blows Datsyuk's 25 out of the water.

A couple of reasons

1. The Wings have always platooned PKers. I believe for a number of years our lineup has allowed us to rotate as many as 8 to 9 forwards for PK duty. And not slouches either. Flip, Clearly, etc... and now Miller and Eaves.

2. Datsyuk, IMO is the catalyst for the offense (forwards that is). It's my belief that as the most creative and most offensive guy we possess, his time is best served doing that, providing offense and offensive chances. Especially on a team that has lost as much production as it has this year.

The question isn't if Dats is the best defensive forward, why doesn't he have the most PK time? The question is, why would you burn up your top centerman with excess minutes on the PK night in and night out when you have 6+ fully capable, pking forwards? Lead by Z, the Wings have ample ability to send guys out who can do the job.

If the Wings didn't have the players who could kill, then Dats would be out there more. But since we have so many who are capable, best to let them eat up some of those minutes. You can't play Pav 30 minutes a night. And having him out there all night killing PK's might be a good thing but not at the expense of exhausting him on the offensive side of things when the Wings are probably 100 goals shorter in the production dept. this year.

[j.hoop]

I'd say Sidney Crosby. Between face-offs and points he's one of the best overall player this season.

Kesler and Datsyuk are far and away the two best though. Still think Datsyuk has an edge, but Kesler is closing in.

its typical you would say that, and you are obviously flame baiting. crosbys +/- is nothing special, and he has 30 more giveaways than takeaways. also faceoffs has almost no weight in Selke contention. ovechkin would likely win before crosby. BTW crosby sucks.

[Carman]

its typical you would say that, and you are obviously flame baiting. crosbys +/- is nothing special, and he has 30 more giveaways than takeaways. also faceoffs has almost no weight in Selke contention. ovechkin would likely win before crosby. BTW crosby sucks.

Glad you could post constructively.

Someone asked who other contenders could be. Really Kesler + Datsyuk are so far ahead of anyone there really isn't a obvious pick.

Just calm down. It's just text.