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There's really only one question about next season's team now.


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#1 blueadams

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 07:02 PM

Holland has stated that he's going to do three things BEFORE going through his scouting meetings...#1) He's going to resign Lidstrom (check). #2) He's going to resign Holmstrom (next). #3) He's going to make qualifying offers to all of our restricted free agents - Helm, Abdelkader, Eaves, Miller, Meech.

By my calculations...

That leaves one spot open. Two options. #1) Resign Bertuzzi, probably giving us enough cap-space to add a 4th line grinder. #2) Spend all of that remaining cap on one great player to replace Bertuzzi.

I'd like to hear about some of our #2 options.

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Filppula-Zetterberg-Cleary
Hudler-*Helm-???
*Miller-*Abdelkader-*Eaves
Draper
(Ritola)

Lidstrom-Kronwall
Stuart-Rafalski
Kindl-Ericsson
*Meech

Howard
Osgood

#2 hooon

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 07:08 PM

I still don't see why everyone is convinced that both Eaves and Miller will be signed. As it is, we have enough forwards and both of these guys essentially bring the exact same thing for the same price. Personally, I'd keep Eaves and let Miller go.

Bert will sign. I'm not sure who this 'great player' is that we could sign for Bert's money.
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#3 Lidstrom for life

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 07:15 PM

I don't know if you caught Holland's interview during the tigers game just now but he said they are working to resign Holmstrom and Bertuzzi, they are looking forward to having Abdelkator on the team full time next year, and when they get done with their own free agents they will look at adding either some toughness or secondary scoring so it looks like option 1 is more likely than option 2.

According to my cap geek calculations they could resign Bertuzzi and Homer for what they made this year, resign Abdelkator and Helm at 930k each giving them the minimum roster requirements and then they would have about 2.8 million in cap space left (assuming the cap goes up 2 m).

So for option 1 we can sign Bertuzzi and an UFA for about 2 million or option two is not sign Bertuzzi and sign an UFA for about 3.5 I am not sure we can get a "great" player for 3.5 million but for the purpose of this thread that is probably the range we are looking at.

I would prefer they keep Bertuzzi and try to sign a third line winger with some offensive upside but I don't know who that would be.
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#4 wingsownnhl43

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 07:16 PM

Here is my hope...

If the cap goes up $2million, we should have around 2.5 to play with. Kenny said they would target a fourth line forward, so I put that in my lines. Ritola and Draper are your 13th and 14th forwards. No room for Maltby or Miller. Helm goes up to the third line. I think he's ready.

AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES
FORWARDS
Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) /* Tomas Holmstrom ($2.000m)
Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / * Darren Helm ($0.750m) / * Todd Bertuzzi ($1.500m)
UFA / * Justin Abdelkader ($0.850m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.750m)
Mattias Ritola ($0.517m) / Kris Draper ($1.583m)
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)
Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 21; CAP: $56.8m; PAYROLL: $56.230m; CAP ROOM: $0.570m BONUSES: $0.000m

You just have to hope Kronwall returns to his form prior to this past season and that Ericcson improves.

Edited by wingsownnhl43, 01 June 2010 - 07:18 PM.


#5 hardcoretom21

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 07:18 PM

Bertuzzi is a good option
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#6 TheOwl

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 08:44 PM

The Wings need a 3rd and 4th line that can score once and a while. It seems like our bottom two lines, aren't really shut down lines, aren't really checking lines, and rarely ever score. In fact, what do they do besides take up time and get scored on? It seems very odd to me that Helm and Abby are referred to as the next Draper/Maltby. Well where is the next top-six forward in development. Sure, Helm and Abby haven't been given a fair enough chance to show what they could be. BUT the Wings need to get some more young scoring forwards into the system. Leino was supposed to be that guy, and I think Holland pulled the trigger to early.

#7 hooon

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 09:05 PM

The Wings need a 3rd and 4th line that can score once and a while. It seems like our bottom two lines, aren't really shut down lines, aren't really checking lines, and rarely ever score. In fact, what do they do besides take up time and get scored on? It seems very odd to me that Helm and Abby are referred to as the next Draper/Maltby. Well where is the next top-six forward in development. Sure, Helm and Abby haven't been given a fair enough chance to show what they could be. BUT the Wings need to get some more young scoring forwards into the system. Leino was supposed to be that guy, and I think Holland pulled the trigger to early.


Leino was giving ample opportunity to do something for this team this season, yet no matter who he played with it just didn't work out. Easy to say now that hes in the SCF and getting some points, but Kenny ran out of options with him, we needed to shed cap, and it made the most sense. Sure I would have liked a little more in return, but given his value at the time of the trade, its not at all surprising what we got for him.
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#8 newfy

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 09:24 PM

The Wings need a 3rd and 4th line that can score once and a while. It seems like our bottom two lines, aren't really shut down lines, aren't really checking lines, and rarely ever score. In fact, what do they do besides take up time and get scored on? It seems very odd to me that Helm and Abby are referred to as the next Draper/Maltby. Well where is the next top-six forward in development. Sure, Helm and Abby haven't been given a fair enough chance to show what they could be. BUT the Wings need to get some more young scoring forwards into the system. Leino was supposed to be that guy, and I think Holland pulled the trigger to early.

They don't necessarily need a third line and 4th line that can score but they need a bottom 6 that have a purpose. They could signs hut down defensive guys like they used to have in Draper and Maltby, or they could make their bottom 6 tougher to lay out opponents, hurt the defense and intimidate the other team, or they could add some scoring depth.

If we made our bottom 6 into any of these the team would be much better off, right now our bottom lines don't have a niche. Add Abdelkader and a tough UFA and all of a sudden we have guys who can wear down the other teams defense, couple that with Eaves playing a little tougher with tougher linemates and saying bye to Draper and we actually have a 3rd or 4th line that can fulfill a role.

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#9 SweWings

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 09:32 PM

Either Detroit'll sign a relative safe bet early or, and hopefully, one of the kids will have a great camp and take the Detroit coaching staff by storm. But yeah... that's gonna happen.

#10 Crymson

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 09:40 PM

I made some calculations. They assume the following:

1) Maltby, Williams, Eaves, Lilja, Meech and Lebda will not be on the team next season.
2) Miller will re-sign at $650K; Bertuzzi will sign for $1.2m; Homer will sign for $1.5m; and Helm and Abdelkader will sign at ~$850K.
3) Kindl will be the 6th D-man.

This would leave us with 12 forwards and 60 D-men at roughly $54.8m. If the cap goes up by $2m, it'd be $58.5m; assuming that the Wings wish to leave $800K open for call-ups in case of injuries, this leaves about $3m to sign another forward. Sadly, there aren't too many good forwards available. This summer's free agent class will be by far the weakest of the post-lockout era. If we're lucky, perhaps we can sign Lombardi or Plekanec with the money. I personally doubt that Plekanec will not be offered more money by another team. Frolov could perhaps be had for that amount, given the doggish season he had in '09-'10; however, he's developed into somewhat of a Lang-type, and it would be unusual for Holland to sign such a lazy player (recall that Lang, when he was traded for, was not quite as much of a sloth as he became in his final year on the team).

To speak further on this summer's FA class, it flat-out sucks. The only two major scorers available will be Marleau and Kovalchuk; the only two really sought-after defensemen will be Gonchar and Volchenkov; and Turco, Nabokov and Theodore, goalies really past their primes, are the top goalies on the market. It's all sort of depressing. It'll be a boring summer.

#11 soultrain

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 10:44 PM

frolov will probably go to russia along with kovalchuk. marleau will sign with someone for some big cash. that means big bert is good....colby armstrong would be dope too...i think he would make a great wing.

#12 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 11:03 PM

frolov will probably go to russia along with kovalchuk. marleau will sign with someone for some big cash. that means big bert is good....colby armstrong would be dope too...i think he would make a great wing.



I'd say, if we can pull it off, go out and get either Lombardi or Armstrong, either one would be fantastic on this team and could play either 3rd or 4th line.

I also personally believe keeping Eaves would be a better option than Miller, although I do like Miller quite a bit. Eaves has more offensive potential and has been and is a defensive shutdown forward. If we can get him for under a million on a multi-year contract, I'd say pull that trigger.

#13 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 11:52 PM

Helm, Miller and Eaves all hit the 10 goal plateau... doesn't that mean they can chip some goals in?

I hoped for more from Eaves, but in the regular season our bottom lines were pretty effective. Of course the playoffs were different and in the end you could blame the bottom two lines for our early exit since the top 2 lines scored even more regularly than they did in the regular season.
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#14 Buppy

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 12:11 AM

... #3) He's going to make qualifying offers to all of our restricted free agents - Helm, Abdelkader, Eaves, Miller, Meech.

By my calculations...

That leaves one spot open. ...


Bear in mind that making a qualifying offer is not the same thing as signing a player to contract. Qualifying offers are required for matching rights and to recieve compensation. I doubt that both Eaves and Miller will be back. Maybe if we have enough cap room for 14 forwards.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ericsson, Kindl, and Meech as our bottom three defensemen. I won't like it, but it won't surprise me.

...
I would prefer they keep Bertuzzi and try to sign a third line winger with some offensive upside but I don't know who that would be.


With your suggested salaries, and after signing a 7th defensemen, you'd have $1-2 million left (assuming a 2 mil cap increase). "Third line winger with offensive upside" in that price range = Jason Williams.

The Wings need a 3rd and 4th line that can score once and a while. It seems like our bottom two lines, aren't really shut down lines, aren't really checking lines, and rarely ever score. In fact, what do they do besides take up time and get scored on? It seems very odd to me that Helm and Abby are referred to as the next Draper/Maltby. Well where is the next top-six forward in development. Sure, Helm and Abby haven't been given a fair enough chance to show what they could be. BUT the Wings need to get some more young scoring forwards into the system. Leino was supposed to be that guy, and I think Holland pulled the trigger to early.


Helm, Eaves, and Miller CAN score once in a while. Abby has a higher potential than any of them except maybe Eaves. All are young enough they could still improve. Beyond that, we don't really have the cap space for any decent scorers. Nor do we really have the means to just 'get some more young scoring forwards'. Nearly two decades of success does take a toll.

IMO we should forget about Bert. Sign a couple third/fourth liners that could be tough to play against, but can chip in ~10 goals or so. Preferably younger guys. Nystrom, Winchester, Burish, Pyatt, Malhotra. Get off the futile attempt to build three solid scoring lines. All that gets you is guys like Bert in the top 6 and JWilly.

Bert is old, and not that good. If he comes back, no matter what role they put him in, he'll be taking a spot away from someone who'd be better suited to it. He'd basically be injury depth that makes the team worse when healthy.

#15 titanium2

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 12:18 AM

Helm, Miller and Eaves all hit the 10 goal plateau... doesn't that mean they can chip some goals in?

I hoped for more from Eaves, but in the regular season our bottom lines were pretty effective. Of course the playoffs were different and in the end you could blame the bottom two lines for our early exit since the top 2 lines scored even more regularly than they did in the regular season.


Well, I'm sure you remember that Eaves was not in the lineup from day one. Neither was Miller. Helm, in fact, had to be scratched.

My observation is that these guys had to keep it really simple for this past year in order to remain on the team. My hope is that next season they'll be able to play a little bit more of a puck possession style. They most definitely can. A training camp with new drills and strategy could help them in that direction.

#16 eva unit zero

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 12:50 AM

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / * Tomas Holmstrom ($2.500m)
* Todd Bertuzzi ($2.500m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.550m)
* Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / * Darren Helm ($0.675m) / * Drew Miller ($0.600m)
Kris Draper ($1.583m)
Mattias Ritola ($0.517m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
* Derek Meech ($0.55m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) / Chris Osgood ($1.417m)

PAYROLL: $58.755m
CAP ROOM: $0.045m

This roster was compiled retaining both Bertuzzi and Holmstrom at the maximum $2.5m that they should possibly receive; Homer because he supposedly wants a raise over his $2.25m from last year and Bert because he had a decent season and, including his buyout, received $3m last year. RFAs are signed to lowest mathematically reasonable amounts above minimum qualifying offers. With a healthy Franzen and the return of Hudler, the Wings should see an increase of offense to around 270 goals for next season.

As for defense, players like Eaves, Miller, Helm, and Abdelkader provide a solid, physical brand of defense and strong PK as well. With the defensive pairings shaken up a bit to provide stronger defense across the three pairings, as well as allowing the young players some leeway if they make mistakes.

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#17 newfy

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 06:04 AM

I don't know if you caught Holland's interview during the tigers game just now but he said they are working to resign Holmstrom and Bertuzzi, they are looking forward to having Abdelkator on the team full time next year, and when they get done with their own free agents they will look at adding either some toughness or secondary scoring so it looks like option 1 is more likely than option 2.

According to my cap geek calculations they could resign Bertuzzi and Homer for what they made this year, resign Abdelkator and Helm at 930k each giving them the minimum roster requirements and then they would have about 2.8 million in cap space left (assuming the cap goes up 2 m).

So for option 1 we can sign Bertuzzi and an UFA for about 2 million or option two is not sign Bertuzzi and sign an UFA for about 3.5 I am not sure we can get a "great" player for 3.5 million but for the purpose of this thread that is probably the range we are looking at.

I would prefer they keep Bertuzzi and try to sign a third line winger with some offensive upside but I don't know who that would be.

Did Holland actually say he wanted toughness or did he say gritty player or something like that?

RIP BOB PROBERT #24


#18 rick zombo

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 06:36 AM

It's the third line that needs the most help.

I'd say let Bert walk and sign Armstrong to play on the 3rd line.

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Homer
Franzen - Filpulla - Hudler
Cleary - Abdlekader - Armstrong
Eaves - Helm - Draper
Ritola

OR keep Bert....

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Homer
Franzen - Filpulla - Bertuzzi
Cleary - Abdlekader - Hudler
Eaves - Helm - Draper
Ritola

Edited by rick zombo, 02 June 2010 - 06:38 AM.

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#19 weGotTheCup89

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 07:11 AM

Yeah, personally I'd just resign Bert a similar number as last year, and then sit on some cap space. This is still a top-notch team, and since we can't predict what type of injuries we'll be looking at in February, I'd be happy to trade draft picks for a top-6 forward if that's what we need at the trade deadline to compete for the Cup.
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#20 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 07:27 AM

Bertuzzi should resign.

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