James Wisniewski

[newfy 695]

I still think paying more than 4/4.5 for Wiz will be overpaying, but as long as we don't overpay too much, I'd be ok with us overpaying a little for him (maybe upwards of 5.5 at this point) and I think Wiz would be a great addition to the team...

I also want them to let Ericsson walk and this is coming from an Ericsson supporter. He is worth 1.5, but no more and I'd much rather have Steve Montador, than Ericsson at this point, even if we overpay for him to and it's at the same caphit (in all reality, Montador should be able to be had for about 1.75 or less)

4.5 million isnt overpaying I wouldnt say, that seems about fair value to me. He put up 51 points, is ahuge hitter/ can fight and he is better defensively than Rafalski. Rafalski was getting paid 6 million when the cap was lower. Wiz is only gonna get better.

The more I think about it the more I can see them sign him, I know people have heard he doesnt like the wings but ive also read he only said that because his blackhawk teammates would chirp him.

Adding him would give detroit one of, if not the hardest hitting defense in the league

[number9 3,297]

And someone will have to put an end to WizWear.

haha

4.5 million isnt overpaying I wouldnt say, that seems about fair value to me. He put up 51 points, is ahuge hitter/ can fight and he is better defensively than Rafalski. Rafalski was getting paid 6 million when the cap was lower. Wiz is only gonna get better.

The more I think about it the more I can see them sign him, I know people have heard he doesnt like the wings but ive also read he only said that because his blackhawk teammates would chirp him.

Adding him would give detroit one of, if not the hardest hitting defense in the league

+1

[Konnan511 1,736]

4.5 million isnt overpaying I wouldnt say, that seems about fair value to me. He put up 51 points, is ahuge hitter/ can fight and he is better defensively than Rafalski. Rafalski was getting paid 6 million when the cap was lower. Wiz is only gonna get better.

The more I think about it the more I can see them sign him, I know people have heard he doesnt like the wings but ive also read he only said that because his blackhawk teammates would chirp him.

Adding him would give detroit one of, if not the hardest hitting defense in the league

+1'd that s***!

Agreed. Lock him up for 5.5 mil at most for the long term if we can. Maybe even 6mil?

Edited June 15, 2011 by Konnan511

[Datsyerberger 279]

better defensively than Rafalski.

Not at all.

Agree with the rest, though.

[number9 3,297]

Not at all.

esplain

[eva unit zero 271]

stick with Miller over a scrappy 4th liner...

Unless "scrappy 4th liner" means "goon", then Miller IS a scrappy 4th liner.

4.5 million isnt overpaying I wouldnt say, that seems about fair value to me. He put up 51 points, is ahuge hitter/ can fight and he is better defensively than Rafalski. Rafalski was getting paid 6 million when the cap was lower. Wiz is only gonna get better.

The more I think about it the more I can see them sign him, I know people have heard he doesnt like the wings but ive also read he only said that because his blackhawk teammates would chirp him.

Adding him would give detroit one of, if not the hardest hitting defense in the league

Rafalski was paid fair value throughout his contract. Wisniewski has the physical advantage, while Rafalski was the better player offensively and defensively. Rafalski has also declined considerably on the defensive side since his contract year.

The big difference is that Rafalski was signing a retirement contract, while Wisniewski is a 27-year-old defenseman who could sign a long deal or a short deal. Realistically, something around $4.5m or possibly $5m for somewhere between 5-7 seasons is what you'll be looking at for Wiz.

[Datsyerberger 279]

esplain

Wiz pinches worse than Rafalski, tends to be lazier in the D zone, particularly with positioning (as opposed to Raffi, who had decent positioning and good skating [when he wasn't injured] but didn't have the tools to do much in most situations). He's about as bad one the giveaways (worse on passes, though doesn't cough up the puck physically as much due to his size/strength). He also takes way more lazy/dumb penalties. Not much more of a shot blocker, either.

Like I said, though, agree with the rest. Just don't expect Wiz to be much of a savior defensively.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Wiz pinches worse than Rafalski, tends to be lazier in the D zone, particularly with positioning (as opposed to Raffi, who had decent positioning and good skating [when he wasn't injured] but didn't have the tools to do much in most situations). He's about as bad one the giveaways (worse on passes, though doesn't cough up the puck physically as much due to his size/strength). He also takes way more lazy/dumb penalties. Not much more of a shot blocker, either.

Like I said, though, agree with the rest. Just don't expect Wiz to be much of a savior defensively.

As was pointed out, starting with most recent season, these are his PIMS totals.

38

56

16

14

103

39

36

GP 329 PIM 302 (with 103 of those coming in 68 games)

James Wisniewski doesn't take that many penalties. 16 FMs, or 80PIMs are from fighting as well.

[Datsyerberger 279]

As was pointed out, starting with most recent season, these are his PIMS totals.

The ones he does take tend to come at very frustrating times.

[Konnan511 1,736]

The ones he does take tend to come at very frustrating times.

Last year he took 18 minor penalties... I fail to see anything wrong with that... Which was less than Ericsson and Salei. Equal to or one off from Kindl and Kronwall. 3 more than Stuart. He takes one penalty every 4th game, sounds good to me.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Last year he took 18 minor penalties... I fail to see anything wrong with that... Which was less than Ericsson and Salei. Equal to or one off from Kindl and Kronwall. 3 more than Stuart. He takes one penalty every 4th game, sounds good to me.

You'll see.. though it's not a huge concern. Biggest one is his incredibly lazy d-zone play.

[stevkrause 1,247]

4.5 million isnt overpaying I wouldnt say, that seems about fair value to me. He put up 51 points, is ahuge hitter/ can fight and he is better defensively than Rafalski. Rafalski was getting paid 6 million when the cap was lower. Wiz is only gonna get better.

The more I think about it the more I can see them sign him, I know people have heard he doesnt like the wings but ive also read he only said that because his blackhawk teammates would chirp him.

Adding him would give detroit one of, if not the hardest hitting defense in the league

I'm not sure where I said 4.5 was an overpayment? I said MORE than 4.5 was overpaying and even then, I said I'd be ok with it for what he brings to the table, hell, I even said I'd be fine with them going upwards of 5.5 for him (even though that would be the overpayment I was referring to)... there's no argument here, so.... ?

[Konnan511 1,736]

I'm not sure where I said 4.5 was an overpayment? I said MORE than 4.5 was overpaying and even then, I said I'd be ok with it for what he brings to the table, hell, I even said I'd be fine with them going upwards of 5.5 for him (even though that would be the overpayment I was referring to)... there's no argument here, so.... ?

Weird.... that's my mentality too...

[Konnan511 1,736]

I asked many a Habs fans about Wiz and they said this:

James Wisniewski:

Out-of-this-world slapper

Solid skater, good but not great in all aspects, speed, agility, balance

Great puck mover, but tends to turn the puck over when pressured in own zone

Has a tendancy to make mistakes in defensive zone

Likes to play the body. Isn't overly physical but won't get intimidated and get throw decent checks.

Can make a PP work by himself. Has tremendous offensive instincs and a howitzer from the point. Potential for 20+ goals yearly.

Is a leader. Never complains about anything and always a smile on his face, looks like a great guy to hang around.

Is a legit top-4 defenseman... can be trusted in all situations, although is considered an offensive dman over a defensive guy... can be trusted to play 20+ solid minutes a night.

Still is young and growing into a bonafide NHL player... could be a solid replacement for Rafalski for sure IMO... with good coaching could developp into a similar presence for the Wings.

Question is... are you willing to throw $5M at him? I'd be hesitant in signing him for anything over $4,25M on a long term deal.

Also, in regards to the penalty thing:

The penalty thing is either false or effectively irrelevant. Wisniewski gets in guys faces but ends up drawing more penalties than taking them (this is consistent for the last 4 years of his career) while most defensemen take more penalties than they draw.

Actually draws more penalties than he takes which is rare for a defenseman.

Offense B+

Defense C+

PP A

PK he can play decent.. he's a smart player knows how to play defense... just isn't that good at it... C+

Hockey sense.. no problem there. Isn't a master at reading the play defensively but understands the game and has good enough skill to play solid defense... as said before offensively he is very very very good. He did play on the top-pair at times this year and didn't look out of place at all. Wizz for a 2nd rounder was a STEAL for the Canadiens and we might not have made the playoffs without this deal.

Now the problem is Gorges' date=' Markov, Hammer and Wizz all need new deals. That's basically 16+ million and you need to re-sign Subban and Price next year. Can't sign everyone, Hammer is almost 100% gone, you've already re-signed Gill and you're stuck with Spacek and now it is between Marky and Wiz... can PG sign both? And at what prize...[/quote']

[Konnan511 1,736]

I'm not sure a guy with 38 PiM with a couple fights over a season can be someone who takes "stupid penalties". He's not exactly Roman Hamrlik taking a hooking/tripping/slashing call every single time he gets beaten in a race.

Maybe everyone has the memory of him running Seabrook or doing the BJ impression to Avery. Because when he was with us I noticed nothing like that. He was very good at not taking penalties.

[sputman 1,268]

i think a wiz signing could be like the stuart signing, but with more offensive upside and even more added punch.

i really hope this deal gets done. surely he wants out of montreal and i bet he's got an yzerman and/or lidstrom jersey in his closet somewhere.

The ones he does take tend to come at very frustrating times.

who hasn't taken penalties at frustrating time? dude doesn't really take that many.

[kipwinger 8,756]

Good stat work on the penalty question guys. Seems like that question is effectively laid to rest.

[Bannedforlife 403]

Good stat work on the penalty question guys. Seems like that question is effectively laid to rest.

Wisniewski committed 18 minor penalties in 75 games last year. If you break down the types of penalties he received it indicates that he does not have a tendancy to commit the same mistake over and over, which can be annoying to watch.

Holding the stick: 1

Interference: 2

Slashing: 2

Cross check: 3

Roughing: 3

Boarding: 1

Hooking: 4

High-sticking: 1

High-sticking (Double): 1

Wiz took 8 of those penalties in 32 games for New York (One was for roughing during the 1-6 loss to the Flyers in which 120 minutes were handed out) and 10 while playing 43 games for Montreal (Another one was for roughing in the 2nd period brawl of the 6-8 loss to Boston in which 182 penalty minutes were handed out)

Of those 18 penalties, only 5 occured during the last 10 minutes of the game (cross check, high-sticking, high-sticking, hooking, roughing), 1 came after the final horn (cross check) and none during overtime. Three times the opposing team received a matching minor, including the brawl in Boston. Only 4 times did the opposing team score on the ensuing power play (roughing, high-sticking, hooking, hooking) and none of those goals turned out to be the game winning or game tying goal. In fact, the goals that were scored turned out to be mostly inconsequential. One was the final goal in a 5-0 beatdown by the Predators, another was the fourth goal in that 6-1 blowout by the Flyers, another was the final goal in a 5-2 loss to the Penguins. The only one that really had any consequence to it was the go-ahead goal that put the Leafs up 4-3. The game ended 5-4 Leafs.

By comparison, Rafalski committed 11 minor penalties last year in 63 games. While Rafalski was great about not taking penalties towards the end of the game, he did take one tripping penalty in OT against Dallas. Loui Eriksson ended up scoring shortly after the penalty expired. The puck also ended up in the back of the net on 2 other Rafalski penalties (hooking and cross check). Also, the majority of the penalties he did take were of the infuriating variety (4 hooking, 3 tripping, 1 puck over the glass). It is worth noting that the only guy Rafalski roughed up this year was Kopecky (That could be seen as good or bad)

PS I was bored and couldnt sleep last night, somehow I got stuck on this.

[sputman 1,268]

Wisniewski committed 18 minor penalties in 75 games last year. If you break down the types of penalties he received it indicates that he does not have a tendancy to commit the same mistake over and over, which can be annoying to watch.

[kipwinger 8,756]

Wisniewski committed 18 minor penalties in 75 games last year. If you break down the types of penalties he received it indicates that he does not have a tendancy to commit the same mistake over and over, which can be annoying to watch.

Holding the stick: 1

Interference: 2

Slashing: 2

Cross check: 3

Roughing: 3

Boarding: 1

Hooking: 4

High-sticking: 1

High-sticking (Double): 1

Wiz took 8 of those penalties in 32 games for New York (One was for roughing during the 1-6 loss to the Flyers in which 120 minutes were handed out) and 10 while playing 43 games for Montreal (Another one was for roughing in the 2nd period brawl of the 6-8 loss to Boston in which 182 penalty minutes were handed out)

Of those 18 penalties, only 5 occured during the last 10 minutes of the game (cross check, high-sticking, high-sticking, hooking, roughing), 1 came after the final horn (cross check) and none during overtime. Three times the opposing team received a matching minor, including the brawl in Boston. Only 4 times did the opposing team score on the ensuing power play (roughing, high-sticking, hooking, hooking) and none of those goals turned out to be the game winning or game tying goal. In fact, the goals that were scored turned out to be mostly inconsequential. One was the final goal in a 5-0 beatdown by the Predators, another was the fourth goal in that 6-1 blowout by the Flyers, another was the final goal in a 5-2 loss to the Penguins. The only one that really had any consequence to it was the go-ahead goal that put the Leafs up 4-3. The game ended 5-4 Leafs.

By comparison, Rafalski committed 11 minor penalties last year in 63 games. While Rafalski was great about not taking penalties towards the end of the game, he did take one tripping penalty in OT against Dallas. Loui Eriksson ended up scoring shortly after the penalty expired. The puck also ended up in the back of the net on 2 other Rafalski penalties (hooking and cross check). Also, the majority of the penalties he did take were of the infuriating variety (4 hooking, 3 tripping, 1 puck over the glass). It is worth noting that the only guy Rafalski roughed up this year was Kopecky (That could be seen as good or bad)

PS I was bored and couldnt sleep last night, somehow I got stuck on this.

Now that's a statistical breakdown boys.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Now that's a statistical breakdown boys.

no kidding, he wasn't messing around there! well done bannedforlife!

[Travis 576]

I will eat my crow now. I guess the scenes of Seabrook, Avery, etc. led me to a misinformed stance against him. I am happy to admit I was wrong.

Now, someone get rid of WizWear.

[blgillett 48]

the best thing about picking him up he is a right handed shot and would replace Raffy on power play

[number9 3,297]

I will eat my crow now. I guess the scenes of Seabrook, Avery, etc. led me to a misinformed stance against him. I am happy to admit I was wrong.

Now, someone get rid of WizWear.

I think he just has a big personality....not to mention I think he likes to talk s*** and sees himself as a bit of a protector of his teammates. maybe hes chelly #2? maybe he'll add some spark to the team so we can get this cup run lit.

as for wizwear, no comment

Edited June 16, 2011 by number9

[Majsheppard 203]

It is starting to sound like this is a done deal. Even the Wiz himself is tweeting about possibly of going to Detroit... Assuming that this is a real account.