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This team screams for a trade

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Lol, -4, am I not kissing the Red Wings ass enough for you guys? I remember when this forum used to be good and someone could have a strong opinion. Now that's living in the past.

Me too. Those were the days before the thought police started patrolling.*

The only players acceptable to rip on are Ericsson and sometimes Hudler. Osgood used to be fair game too but sadly he retired.

I understand that no one wants a forum of mindfly's around here, but there's still constructive talk to be had when the team doesn't play well, even if it's critical. A forum full of "Holland is great! Babcock is great! The Wings are great! I'm sure it'll get better!" doesn't interest me much.

I don't think a trade is necessarily a solution, but Babs was obviously pissed by the players lack of effort last night. We're not imagining it. The first couple seasons Babcock had guys working hard and doing all the little things right. Maybe the novelty of his message is wearing off. I certainly wouldn't want to get rid of a coach as great as Babs and am not suggesting that, but complacency has been a repeating theme with this team the last couple seasons. Franzen just about openly says he gets bored with the regular season.

EDIT: and yes I know the team is 5-2. I'm not saying the Wings are doomed. It's obviously early in the season and on paper they're off to a great start. But doesn't "lack of effort" and phrases like it from the coach and players sound really familiar from last season? More than thinking it's a fatal flaw, it's a worry from me that things haven't changed.

*I'm not referring to the moderators

Edited by haroldsnepsts
Detroit # 1 Fan and Ram like this

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Can we pursue Iginla at the trade deadline?

There's always rumblings in Calgary that he may be traded at the deadline.

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Nobody is saying "Playing without effort is okay." People are simply saying "Whoa, don't freak out over the roster yet. It's been two games over an 82 game season. Let's see how they do for a bit before hitting the panic button."

It's sad that people can't understand the difference.

At the same time, people seem to think questioning lack of effort means the OP is saying "being 5 and 2 sucks!"

His original post was mostly about lack of effort. Yet most of the responses were essentially "we're 5-2. Shut the F up!" and basically ignoring what I think is a relevant point regardless of their record. Made even more relevant based on Babcock's reaction to last night's game.

It seems like most people reacted to the post title (which was probably poorly chosen) and not the content of his actual post.

bentcobra and dobbles like this

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I do believe two seasons ago the Wings started out 0-2 by losing two straight games in Sweden to St. Louis(?) and that season turned out okie dokie considering... I am a bit frustrated over the last two games too, but even I am not calling for heads or trades. I simply want to see Babcock find the right line combo's very soon and for EVERYONE to give their 110%. Fans play huge amount of dollars to come see the stars play and when it seems like the stars are disinterested in playing, the fans feel slighted a bit.

For the user that said in 2008 we had Downey, isn't our powerplay our enforcer? :ninja: Seriously though, I think more than that, we need THREE scoring lines instead of two. I think Abdelkader - Helm - Eaves should be the fourth line and have three legit scoring threats on the other three lines, if that means losing Miller/Hudler/Brunnstrom and or Emmerton, I am not sure, but I think that Babcock should try to assemble three scoring lines with snipers on all three...but with the lineup we have I do realize that is probably not possible, but I hope it can because I really like the guys on our roster (except one) and would hate to lose any of them (except one.)

For now, keep experimenting until the right mix is found and if December comes and they still haven't found it, then maybe start to deal wheels in motion....

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Meanwhile, the Pens continue to dominate without Crosby and Malkin. <_<

they have also lost 2 games...and have played 11 games. That means our winning percentage is better, plus we have given up less goals even with 10 in the last two games. It is Washington that is the best team in the league right now, they are flying on all cylinders...

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I have been avoiding this thread because of all the years to post this its now? We have been one of the oldest teams for a few years running and as soon as we shed years off our median age so where smack dap in the heard you demand to be younger? Im not even going to comment on Zetterberg is a "superstar" comment, just ridiculous.

lil Wing's fan likes this

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I do think moves need to be made at some point this season.

In my opinion, we can't win the Cup with this roster. We've tried two seasons in a row, and couldn't get past the 2nd round. Sometimes, you have to try something different, and not keep banging your head against a brick wall in aimless futility.

And I'm not saying this because we've lost two games in a row. I said before the season that some kind of changes would have to be made at the deadline. We'll have to wait till then.

We're still a good team and will likely win the division, but there's no reason to expect a Cup run with this roster. We've learned as much in recent years.

Edited by GMRwings1983
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.

....And your point is?

I said that before the season. This isn't the same team from 2008. It's more like the same team from 2010 and 2011. You know, the one that lost to the Sharks in the 2nd round.

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Can we pursue Iginla at the trade deadline?

There's always rumblings in Calgary that he may be traded at the deadline.

Feaster probably won't trade him, even though he should. But man, what a pick up Jarome would be. It'd be one of those career rejuvenating moves, and if we moved Hudler/Ericsson out in the deal (and no before the neg storm starts, not because they suck but because of salary) then we'd have room for him. I really can't see it happening but I'd love to rub it in all of the smug flames fans I know faces that there franchise player was the key to my team winning a Stanley Cup. :lol:

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....And your point is?

I said that before the season. This isn't the same team from 2008. It's more like the same team from 2010 and 2011. You know, the one that lost to the Sharks in the 2nd round.

I can't get my brain around not winning the cup this year. I think that every year we are going to win, but some days in the dead of ******* winter its honestly the only damn reason I get up at all, so to chalk it up as loss from the get go I can not do...The famous saying of "just get in and anything can happen" is that false? Because when I look at this roster I see a group of players that if they play the way they need to play to win then they CAN. So they WILL...my 2 cents

lil Wing's fan likes this

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....And your point is?

He agrees with you. I don't. I don't think we're favorites, but this team is more than capable of winning a Stanley Cup. We have great depth, our top 6 all has the potential to do well in the playoffs and hopefully our defense will be well improved. Obviously on paper it's worse this year but hopefully with a new defensive coach we will be able to shut teams down. The thing I'm most worried about, frankly, is how effective Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be. Strange as it is.

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I can't get my brain around not winning the cup this year. I think that every year we are going to win, but some days in the dead of ******* winter its honestly the only damn reason I get up at all, so to chalk it up as loss from the get go I can not do...The famous saying of "just get in and anything can happen" is that false? Because when I look at this roster I see a group of players that if they play the way they need to play to win then they CAN. So they WILL...my 2 cents

You're right in one sense. When you get into the playoffs, anything can happen.

However, I hope Holland realizes (unlike the homers here) that our last several playoff losses weren't flukes. This team has obviously been lacking something the last several playoff runs.

Feaster probably won't trade him, even though he should. But man, what a pick up Jarome would be. It'd be one of those career rejuvenating moves, and if we moved Hudler/Ericsson out in the deal (and no before the neg storm starts, not because they suck but because of salary) then we'd have room for him. I really can't see it happening but I'd love to rub it in all of the smug flames fans I know faces that there franchise player was the key to my team winning a Stanley Cup. :lol:

Not to mention, how hungry he'd be to win a Cup. And that right handed one-timer we've wanted since Hull and Shanahan left.

I hate Iginla, but am interested in the idea of acquiring him.

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He agrees with you. I don't. I don't think we're favorites, but this team is more than capable of winning a Stanley Cup. We have great depth, our top 6 all has the potential to do well in the playoffs and hopefully our defense will be well improved. Obviously on paper it's worse this year but hopefully with a new defensive coach we will be able to shut teams down. The thing I'm most worried about, frankly, is how effective Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be. Strange as it is.

What you're seeing from GMR is called defensive pessimism, though he's sure to falsely label it as 'realism.' He's also apparently forgotten the giant uproar during the 2007 offseason, during which the Wings lost Calder and Bertuzzi and added only Drake. But hey, some people would rather wuss out than risk disappointment.

Edited by Crymson

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I don't believe "uninspired" play for a period here and there allows for 5 goals in total for the first 4 games.

The typical remnants of the type of uninspired hockey you speak of, that does in fact sometimes plague the Red Wings, is the team winning a 1 goal game when they were up far more than that, or off to a typical slow start, getting behind, and coming back to win by a goal or two, or coming one goal short. The first 5 games were decisive victories played with a stifling defence and playing for a full 60+ minute game. The last two games were very uncharacteristic of the Red Wings, but that s*** happens to teams during the regular season as they're not robots. Maybe you confused the lethargic Wings with the lethargic crowds in the lower bowl at the Joe? I'm not sure but you certainly aren't shooting anywhere near on target with your assertion of how the Wings played the first 5 games.

Let's see...I believe we only showed up in the 2nd period against Ottawa. I don't really remember how we played against Colorado but I recall Conklin having to make some huge saves in that game. We looked pretty sluggish and out of sync against Vancouver, and didn't start skating until the 2nd period, although the defense was solid. I thought they had a lot of energy in the Wild game. Then they beat Columbus... I guess you could argue they played smart defensively even when they weren't skating - that's not hard to do against crappy teams that can't dictate the pace of the game, make plays, and force turnovers. I saw the same crap from the Wings in the two losses as I did in the five victories - they just weren't able to turn it around in the 2nd or 3rd period against better and/or hungrier teams.

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I do think moves need to be made at some point this season.

In my opinion, we can't win the Cup with this roster. We've tried two seasons in a row, and couldn't get past the 2nd round. Sometimes, you have to try something different, and not keep banging your head against a brick wall in aimless futility.

And I'm not saying this because we've lost two games in a row. I said before the season that some kind of changes would have to be made at the deadline. We'll have to wait till then.

We're still a good team and will likely win the division, but there's no reason to expect a Cup run with this roster. We've learned as much in recent years.

THIS is a legitimate argument.

THIS is what fosters civilized discussion (usually) regarding the Wings and their potential.

THIS is what the OP should have went with. And no, Harold. The title was perfectly appropriate for the content he put into his post. Looking for accountability after two losses, and acting like there aren't 29 teams who have terrible games or stretches.

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THIS is a legitimate argument.

THIS is what fosters civilized discussion (usually) regarding the Wings and their potential.

THIS is what the OP should have went with. And no, Harold. The title was perfectly appropriate for the content he put into his post. Looking for accountability after two losses, and acting like there aren't 29 teams who have terrible games or stretches.

Nonsense. Panic is always most conducive to sensible discussion.

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Let's see...I believe we only showed up in the 2nd period against Ottawa. I don't really remember how we played against Colorado but I recall Conklin having to make some huge saves in that game. We looked pretty sluggish and out of sync against Vancouver, and didn't start skating until the 2nd period, although the defense was solid. I thought they had a lot of energy in the Wild game. Then they beat Columbus... I guess you could argue they played smart defensively even when they weren't skating - that's not hard to do against crappy teams that can't dictate the pace of the game, make plays, and force turnovers. I saw the same crap from the Wings in the two losses as I did in the five victories - they just weren't able to turn it around in the 2nd or 3rd period against better and/or hungrier teams.

The Wings shut Colorado out, the same Colorado that's above them in the standings now.

I don't need to downplay how badly the Wings played in the last two games, it's just pretty interesting how the Wings evidently took the piss in the first five which they seriously dominated opponents and made it look easy. It's pretty funny how the Wings can dominate other teams yet certain fans have a one or two game memory the second they start to lose.

Edited by Shoreline

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The Wings shut Colorado out, the same Colorado that's above them in the standings now.

I don't need to downplay how badly the Wings played in the last two games, it's just pretty interesting how the Wings evidently took the piss in the first five which they seriously dominated opponents and made it look easy. It's pretty funny how the Wings can dominate other teams yet certain fans have a one or two game memory the second they start to lose.

Would you say they skated for the majority of the time in the games they won? Do you think their efforts against Ottawa, Vancouver, Colorado, and Columbus (the first time) are good enough to win against SJ or the Caps? In some of those games...a bounce or two the other way and we lose.

I don't care that they lost the last two games. I know they are going to take nights off and, once in a while, get totally embarrassed. I just think they didn't play all that well when they were winning.

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Would you say they skated for the majority of the time in the games they won? Do you think their efforts against Ottawa, Vancouver, Colorado, and Columbus (the first time) are good enough to win against SJ or the Caps? In some of those games...a bounce or two the other way and we lose.

I don't care that they lost the last two games. I know they are going to take nights off and, once in a while, get totally embarrassed. I just think they didn't play all that well when they were winning.

Uh yeah, they did skate for a "majority of the time" in the games they won, especially in the shutouts. Can't exactly coast through a shutout victory while taking a nap on the ice -- this is a professional league, and there's significantly more parity, the latter of which was pretty obvious when the Wings took the Jackets lightly the other night and paid for it.

I don't blame people for being irritated at the two losses, I don't think any reasonable fan would be pleased with them. However, it's taking it too far to completely discredit the Red Wings with their well earned victories (funny how quickly one discredits their efforts and accomplishments while emphasizing and embellishing their shortcomings), even further more, calling to blow the team up after a whopping 2 losses. Some of us, not being new to the forum, are well versed in dealing with this type of knee-jerk. It happens every season when the Red Wings face some sort of adversity where some niche of fans wants to blow the team up (regardless of how early or late in the season) or declare the season/playoffs/cup contention over for whatever ass backwards negative nancy reason they can come up with. Take a fricken chill pill.

Edited by Shoreline

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