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This team screams for a trade

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I never have and never will say that Cleary sucks. In fact he is one of my favorite Wings. I stated that he has not looked good for awhile. Cleary works hard there is no doubting that but he is could be replaced by somebody that could contribute on the score board as well. Perhaps you think that in order to make a trade you don't have to give anyone up? Or if you are so against a trade why are you reading a trade thread? :huh:

He has not looked good in awhile? You make it seem like he has had several bad seasons. We are NINE GAMES into the season. He was one of our best players last year. So yes, I will call what you're saying an absolute exaggeration.

See above and take notes. Your schtick is absolutely aggravating, tiring and old. And this is coming from a guy who almost always sees the glass half-full and doesn't go on flip outs or panic attacks immediatly after a game. And this isn't just me saying this, you've been told this constantly in the past by others.

You're speaking as if you haven't levied this same criticism at me several times already.

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You act like everyone here is severely overreacting and wants to tear this team apart. While a select few might make hasty and irrational comments to that effect, most of us don't.

Everyone?

The team hasn't played well lately. End of story. As fans, can we not criticize that?

Sure.

If we have doubts that our team might not be good enough to win the Cup--are we no longer fans?

Nope. However, I think there's a big difference between "I don't think this team can challenge for the Cup as is" and "this team won't win the Cup this season." The former is an opinion, the latter a declaration. If one has already given up, then why bother continuing?

A slight overreaction on the pessimistic side is still much better than this cockeyed, self-righteous optimism of yours.

I think we've seen markedly more than slight overreactions. As for "cockeyed optimism," lol. I always laugh when I see people accuse me of this as if it matters that I'm so optimistic. In the end, none of our discussions here will have any effect on what the team does, so it's not as if me being optimistic is going to prevent there from being a trade or whatever. That said, I'm aware that the only way us fans can help the team in even a miniscule way on an individual basis is to support them. Obviously this is a forum for discussion, but still I find it silly when people go nuts, and I find it both absurd and irritating when people exhibit such a marked lack of ability to appreciate how much success this team has had over the last two decades; the latter, not blind optimism, is one reason why I heavily criticize people who lose touch with the ground. That said, blind optimism is just about the best thing any of us can have, given that we're cheering for a sports team whose performance we have absolutely no way of seriously affecting. What's the worst that can happen?

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Wait a second...isn't Brunnstrom on waivers now? Get outta here! Looks like Emmerton is the next one on the block. See, I did have substance, you just didn't agree with it so you dismissed it. Just because you don't have an opinion and someone said something in the slightest negative way doesn't mean you have to blast it.

Why would Emmerton be next, and who's replacing him? Why not Miller or Eaves? Eaves has sat in the press box for four games, Miller for two, and Emmerton for two. Emmerton is four years younger than the others, and all of them are capable PKers. Emmerton is the only center of the three.

That's cool they won in 2007-2008 with Marian Hossa and the above names when they were five years younger. But they have lost to San Jose the past two years. So if history proves correct the Red Wings will be kicked out by San Jose. By all means please try to make me eat that. SPOILER ALERT: You can't hehehehehhehehehe

This is going to be EXTREMELY difficult for you to understand, I know, but what a [different] team ddid five (5) years ago has no affect on what they will do this year. NONE. ZERO. ZIP. ZILCH. NADA. Just as, just as, what they have done the past two years means squat. How are they playing RIGHT NOW? Horrible.

Ya dig Inglewood Jack?

And all you can come up with is pointless drivel blasting my post because, as I said, you're just a corn cob who thinks his opinion is more valid and poignant than every other one. s***, you're

*your

smug cloud is even bigger than George Clooney's. So what's going to happen now is you're going to come in here and make a long, winding post about how much smarter you are than me and try to put me down somehow rather than admit that you are wrong and I am right. Because for whatever reason you need to feel superior to someone on an interwebz message board. Me, on the other hand, doesn't give two s***s about what you say to me. Truth be told, you could drop dead and I could care less.

Couldn't. It's "I couldn't care less" because "I could care less" means that you do care. Which is the complete opposite of what you are saying. Proper spelling and grammar are our friends. You should become acquainted with them if you desire to be taken seriously.

With all that being said... trade for Shane Doan and Zack Parise and they're set. In all reality, however, you're going to see Tatar and Mursak soon. On a sidenote, I got myself started: Legitimate source -a former Wings goalie- also said don't expect the Red Wings to move to the East. Which kinda sucks.

Trade for Doan and Parise? And what are we giving up, Hudler/Kindl/1st to New Jersey and to Phoenix at the same time?

Want me to really blow your

NO!

mind?

Oh.

Sergei Samsonov comes into my work quite often and I've asked him every time if ANY team has called him yet. He's told me none of interest. What would I do? Bye-bye Drew Miller or Hudler. Hello Sergei Samsonov. He's far removed from his 70+ point back-to-back seasons but for Detroit's style of play, I think he has enough offensive flair left in the tank to help out a struggling Wings team in desperate need of goals.

I like the Sergei Samsonov idea. I've liked the idea of Sergei Samsonov for years. But Ken Holland doesn't. Sergei Samsonov contacted the Wings about trying out, and the Wings said no thanks.

Ya dig, Inglewood Jack?

Uncle Danny, GoWings1905 and 55fan like this

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He has not looked good in awhile? You make it seem like he has had several bad seasons. We are NINE GAMES into the season. He was one of our best players last year. So yes, I will call what you're saying an absolute exaggeration.

You're speaking as if you haven't levied this same criticism at me several times already.

And you are speaking like you have no clue how to listen to people.

Nobody here wants to be told on how to act or what proper fan ettiquete is.

Since you aren't even remotely hinting at attempting to take people's advice or criticism about you to try to better yourself, or even just trying to understand, I'm done with this.

Have fun continuing getting dumped on for telling people how they should act and overreacting to people who really aren't overreacting.

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Maybe if we claim Avery off re-entry waivers, we'll win the Cup like we did in 2002 when he was on our roster. Amirite?

:thumbup:

This team needs more Garnet Exelby.

:thumbup:

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Sure, if we have no ambitions to win the Cup, we might as well call up the goons. :clap:

If we have no ambitions to win a cup we might as well keep doing what we're doing lol

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I like the Sergei Samsonov idea. I've liked the idea of Sergei Samsonov for years. But Ken Holland doesn't. Sergei Samsonov contacted the Wings about trying out, and the Wings said no thanks.

This would have been a good idea maybe 5 or so years ago, but even more-so now, certainly not excluding then (it would have likely been an issue then as well), he's had to content with injury problems which is perhaps what the Red Wings want to avoid. My view of Samsonov is rather positive because I've mainly seen him with the Bruins, but I couldn't avoid remembering the team hopping he had been doing given his inconsistency relating to injuries and the obvious risk it poses to teams wanting to make a serious run through the playoffs, which we presume the Red Wings are attempting every season until they simply stop making it.

Edited by Shoreline

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This would have been a good idea maybe 5 or so years ago, but even more-so now, certainly not excluding then (it would have likely been an issue then as well), he's had to content with injury problems which is perhaps what the Red Wings want to avoid. My view of Samsonov is rather positive because I've mainly seen him with the Bruins, but I couldn't avoid remembering the team hopping he had been doing given his inconsistency relating to injuries and the obvious risk it poses to teams wanting to make a serious run through the playoffs, which we presume the Red Wings are attempting every season until they simply stop making it.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not thinking about 70-point Samsonov. He only posted what, 40-something last year?

But Samsonov would definitely add depth scoring to the Wings, and speed. Right now all of the Wings' scoring forwards are above average to average in terms of skating speed. The only fast skaters on the team are the checking liners. Except for Cleary, who right now belongs on a checking line because he isn't producing jack squat offensively.

Sign Samsonov to a cheap deal (no more than $1m-$1.5m) and do something like one of these:

Samsonov/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

Cleary/Filppula/Eaves

Abdelkader/Helm/Bertuzzi

Hudler/Datsyuk/Bertuzzi

Samsonov/Zetterberg/Franzen

Filppula/Helm/Cleary

Holmstrom/Abdelkader/Eaves

Worst case scenario is that he doesn't produce enough to justify being on the roster. The Wings have more than enough defensive/PK forwards to justify trading or waiving Drew Miller if necessary. The fact that this lineup still includes Dats, Z, Helm, Flip, Cleary, Abs, and Eaves makes that fact plainly obvious. Not to mention Emmerton and Mursak as the spares.

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I really wish the team went after Versteeg last year. He is off to a good start this year and I think he will be a 70+ point producer by the time the season is done. I think this guy could be a 30G 30A per season guy for many years to come.

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He has not looked good in awhile? You make it seem like he has had several bad seasons. We are NINE GAMES into the season. He was one of our best players last year. So yes, I will call what you're saying an absolute exaggeration.

You're speaking as if you haven't levied this same criticism at me several times already.

I honestly think you're Dan Cleary incognito... I HATE Cleary. He's not a $3 Million dollar forward, sorry... NO. Worst move I've seen Holland do besides giving up Leino and keeping Maltby & Draper. Letting Quincey walk for Lilja too.

Cleary is not one of our best players he averages what, 18 minutes roughly a game? Anyone who is worth their salt in this league that is put on this team and given that ice time would match his production or exceed it. He's injured EVERY year, and for 20+ games most of the time. I honestly cannot still figure out why you're such a Dan Cleary supporter; Cleary is ocasionally good because he is on the Wings (like anyone else would be). He was a reject on his former teams and considered a bust.

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I honestly think you're Dan Cleary incognito... I HATE Cleary. He's not a $3 Million dollar forward, sorry... NO. Worst move I've seen Holland do besides giving up Leino and keeping Maltby & Draper. Letting Quincey walk for Lilja too.

Cleary is not one of our best players he averages what, 18 minutes roughly a game? Anyone who is worth their salt in this league that is put on this team and given that ice time would match his production or exceed it. He's injured EVERY year, and for 20+ games most of the time. I honestly cannot still figure out why you're such a Dan Cleary supporter; Cleary is ocasionally good because he is on the Wings (like anyone else would be). He was a reject on his former teams and considered a bust.

Wow... Oh my... This should be a lot of fun.

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I don't know why but Ive always loved TJ Oshie, he has never even hit 20 goals and has had some trouble with blues management...but here comes that "potential" word again, Im not sure his price would be much over his current 2.7 but is a free agent at the end of this year. Any reason why I should have a feeling about this kid? or it just could be gas....

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Wow... Oh my... This should be a lot of fun.

He shows up to make nonsensical threads about Cleary whenever he can. His last one was an "I TOLD YOU SO" thread when Cleary's ankle was hurt from getting hit with a slapshot. "I TOLD YOU HE WAS INJURY-PRONE. AND I WAS RIGHT." Heh. It got deleted by the mods, needless to say.

He completely loses all sense when talking about Cleary, so there's no reason to engage him on the topic.

Edited by Crymson
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He shows up to make nonsensical threads about Cleary whenever he can. His last one was an "I TOLD YOU SO" thread when Cleary's ankle was hurt from getting hit with a slapshot. "I TOLD YOU HE WAS INJURY-PRONE. AND I WAS RIGHT." Heh. It got deleted by the mods, needless to say.

He completely loses all sense when talking about Cleary, so there's no reason to engage him on the topic.

The argument I just presented is based on his production, or lack there of. He isn't worth $3 million dollars a year. Like I said, anyone would match his numbers with the same amount of ice time on this team. He isn't a top-6 forward in this league and shouldn't be paid like one. Yeah he does have injury problems, and you're only naming one injury on a long list of ailments. There are countless others that you are not naming. Basically using a straw man fallacy to prove your point that you're right. Would you like to wager that he scores 30+ goals like a top-6 forward should this year? I have paypal and I don't mind a bet.

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The argument I just presented is based on his production, or lack there of. He isn't worth $3 million dollars a year. Like I said, anyone would match his numbers with the same amount of ice time on this team. He isn't a top-6 forward in this league and shouldn't be paid like one. Yeah he does have injury problems, and you're only naming one injury on a long list of ailments. There are countless others that you are not naming. Basically using a straw man fallacy to prove your point that you're right. Would you like to wager that he scores 30+ goals like a top-6 forward should this year? I have paypal and I don't mind a bet.

LOL. Right. Nine games and you're judging this. Perhaps it's because you have a totally silly hate of Cleary. He was #2 in goals on the team last season with 26, and he played in every situation: ES, PP, PK. He works his ass off and is one of the more physical and fearless players on the team. He's exactly the sort of versatile player that every team looks for at the affordable price he comes at.

Since you seem to be shockingly unaware of it, I'll let you on to something: the lion's share of top-six forwards in this league don't score 30+ goals. And not a single player on the Red Wings scored even 30 goals last season. The team nevertheless finished 3rd in the conference and came within an inch of the conference finals. Another fact that you should be aware of is that the average top-six forward in the league is paid significantly more than $2.8m. But you're not. Because you know nothing.

As for his injury history, I've gone over it with you before. I noted how few games he has missed for injuries that were not unavoidable. Getting hit by a puck in the face. Getting poked in the eye. And so on. I demonstrated beyond doubt that when only his mundane injuries are counted, he plays at or above the average number of games played by an NHL player. I presented statistics and facts. You decided to pointedly ignore them because they did not fit with your delusions about Cleary. And last season, he was hit in the vulnerable part of the ankle by a slapshot. That, too, was an unavoidable injury that would happen to anyone who was in his place.

Like I said, arguing this with you is a waste of time. I don't know what your fixation on Cleary is--it seems your only contribution to these forums is to show up to spout absurd and often utterly fallacious allegations about him (and, of course, you pointedly ignore any posts that prove you wrong)--but it's really pretty ridiculous. Seek answers.

Edited by Crymson
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I don't know why but Ive always loved TJ Oshie, he has never even hit 20 goals and has had some trouble with blues management...but here comes that "potential" word again, Im not sure his price would be much over his current 2.7 but is a free agent at the end of this year. Any reason why I should have a feeling about this kid? or it just could be gas....

Young top 6 talent, he can hit pretty damn hard, speedy and has some nice hands.

If a swap could somehow be made for him I would be all in favour of it, hes a really good, young guy.

I doubt the blues let him get away but eh would be a perfect addition to use Huders money on

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Young top 6 talent, he can hit pretty damn hard, speedy and has some nice hands.

If a swap could somehow be made for him I would be all in favour of it, hes a really good, young guy.

I doubt the blues let him get away but eh would be a perfect addition to use Huders money on

I don't remember all the details but didn't the Blues sit him for two games for unexpectedly missing a practice, the implication being he was out partying and overslept and/or was hungover? And there were a couple incidents in college too.

I don't know a lot about him but feel like I've heard some questions about his maturity level and dedication.

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I don't remember all the details but didn't the Blues sit him for two games for unexpectedly missing a practice, the implication being he was out partying and overslept and/or was hungover? And there were a couple incidents in college too.

I don't know a lot about him but feel like I've heard some questions about his maturity level and dedication.

Hmm I dont remember this but its very possible, and could make it more possible to acquire him.

Im not concerned about guys who party a bit in college. Smith looks completely fine now, kids grow up.

Oshie woudl look killer in the red and white though

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I expect us to trade for Iginla by Thursday night. ;)

Yeah if he doesn't score the hat trick against us. :P We don't win Thursday night when do you push the panic button? People say like the member Crymson "oh it's only 9-10 games in" OK but there are points at stake, we are 500 hockey team as of now. We should be better than this especially after winnging 5 in a row. Now 5 in a row lost. lol. It's hard to make up points the further the season goes on. Long ways to go yes but I don't see us repeating the 09-10 season and hell that was because of injuries. lol. Not looking good, I'm really up for anything on the trade front.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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This team is what it is....I am all for a trade to shake it up, but right now, not many trade-able assets are playing very good to get us a sniper in return. Not unless you are willing to bid adieu to Franzen.

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