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Andy Pred 48

Babs calls out Kenny, sort of!

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Do you think it comes down to the "hunger" for the cup? The majority of this roster won it in 08. I've always wondered if some players think "Well I've already won the cup, let's play mediocre so I can go home and play golf early this summer."

If you inject more youth from GR, you get more speed, grit, and willingness to advance further in the Playoffs. That's why I hope to see more of Smith, Nyquist, and others next season.

Maybe not to that extreme but I do believe a team full of guys with Rings means a bigger temptation to not care so much about losing. On a relative note, did anyone watch the pregame interviews? Abdelkader and Stuart looked and spoke like they didn't believe we were going to win. Stuart looked like he couldn't care less about it and Abdelkader looked mad to even be a part of it. Like they didn't even want to try to come back from the deficit. Pathetic really. I believe this team needs a serious shake-up. Something to wake up the guys who float around or only play hard 1/3 of the game.

Holland, although I love that he's ours, I think has really made some strange decisions the last couple years. Ericsson (although he was very good in the playoffs) getting that contract tells the team you can be near useless and get a 300% raise while Draper (We really could have used a veteran faceoff specialist who goes hard every shift this playoffs) plays his heart out for 15 years and gets forced out the door. Lidstrom is on the verge of retiring and you sit on 6 million in cap space and let your rivals upgrade. This from a team that let Quincey go to be loyal to a 47 year old defenceman only to trade a 1st round pick to get him back. Same team that kept Maltby 3 years too long, Osgood, and brought back McCarty as basically a pure favor. If Homer is booted this year, he should be mad. And Lidstrom might follow him out the door, because what has Kenny been doing to make sure he stays?

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This will be Ken Hollands most aggressive off-season in years guranteed. We dont need to rebuild - we still have special players, most of whom still have a handful of good years left. What we need to do I reinforce that core of good players with a stud up front (Parise/Semin) and the best free agent available on D (not saying Suter because them beating us really makes him coming here unlikely IMO). A few young guns added to the lineup and one or two sandpaper guys that can bang the body and fight and well be good.

Stuarts gone, Holmers gone, Emmertons gota go, need a backup goalie, and despite his scoring touch I think Hudlers might be let go because hell likely want a raise and Id rather take a bigger/tough more consistent presence if its available via trade or free agency.

Holland can plently of capsapce and an easter basket of almost NHL ready B-level prospects to sweeten deals. This team needs to reload in a few areas and well be in better shape a year from now.

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Babcock in the presser summed it up well, here's a few gems:

Zetterberg's line was good. Filppula is a skater and gives someone for Z to transport the puck with (despite scorecard)

Pavel didn't have any help from his wingers; no one who would skate or compete, thus the musical chairs of wingers on the top line.

Asked about Franzen not showing up, Babcock said "ask him".

Not good enough up front and it was "VERY apparent"

Darren Helm pretty much makes this team. His injury killed the bottom six and saved Nashville a lot of hard miles.

"We're not interested in scratching and clawing to make the playoffs; we want to win." (referring to the last three seasons decline)

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Lidstrom is on the verge of retiring and you sit on 6 million in cap space and let your rivals upgrade.

This more than anything all season (besides the lack of compete) infuriates me to no end... Lidstrom stays because he thinks the team can win a cup and is willing to do whatever they can to make it happen. What does he think now, after a first round disappointment and a season marred by injury?

Leaving money on the table is NOT something this team is used to doing. And as far as the trade deadline, and the high price for certain players like Gaustad: what percentage of the Wings uber deep prospect pool are going to be Nyquist, Helm, or Filppula versus those that will turn out to be Emmerton, Meech, or Ritola?

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The big question is what do we do with Franzen. The contract is brutal and he just doesn't seem to care anymore. During the regular season everyone was saying "but at least he's a playoff performer," but now he's not even that. One lucky goal and invisible besides that despite playing with arguably one of the best players in the game.

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The big question is what do we do with Franzen. The contract is brutal and he just doesn't seem to care anymore. During the regular season everyone was saying "but at least he's a playoff performer," but now he's not even that. One lucky goal and invisible besides that despite playing with arguably one of the best players in the game.

Grand Rapids?

Rick D, esteef, Rick and 3 others like this

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The big question is what do we do with Franzen. The contract is brutal and he just doesn't seem to care anymore. During the regular season everyone was saying "but at least he's a playoff performer," but now he's not even that. One lucky goal and invisible besides that despite playing with arguably one of the best players in the game.

Desperate teams like Montreal and Toronto could be interested in Franzen, I say Franzen for Schenn... :)

Parise - Dats - Morrow (I think he's a FA)

Bert - Zetterberg - Nyquist

Moen - Flip - Eaves

Miller - Helm - Rupp/Gaustad

Abdelakder

Lids - Schenn

Kronwall - White

Quincey - Smith/McQuaid

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The big question is what do we do with Franzen. The contract is brutal and he just doesn't seem to care anymore. During the regular season everyone was saying "but at least he's a playoff performer," but now he's not even that. One lucky goal and invisible besides that despite playing with arguably one of the best players in the game.

Trade him to someone, anyone. He is nothing without Datsyuk spoon-feeding him and that's a complete waste of the best center in the game. Nothing he does makes the team better, he is a beneficiary, not a contributor. Move his contract while it is still possible to someone desperate and stupid. He doesn't belong in the top-six with the caliber players we have in Zetterberg and Datsyuk. He already hasn't lived up to his contract, and on the third line, without D or Z, he might provide depth, but would be unable to score 20+ goals in a season.

If we don't move him now, we are poisoned by his attitude and cap-hit for the next 8 years.

Nev, Red Crazy, esteef and 1 other like this

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People around are screaming "Rinne won this series"... I don't agree. It is our forward depth that did not exist. This is partially on Kenny (someone like Umberger or Vermette would have been excellent addition) and partially injuries to Helm and Eaves. Our D and G were actually fine. Almost all games were decided by 1 goal and Jimmy didn't let more than 3. For example, the following offense roster would have taken us further to the second round, we didn't simply had good 3rd and 4th lines...

Our D was atrocious, way too many mistakes happened and it cost us.

Quincey is not as solid as I hoped for.

Woohoo another season coming up with Bert and Mule in our top six. <_<

I still don't understand why Holland gave Bert a 2 year contract. /facepalm

Also unless Cleary comes back 100% he will be useless next season as well.

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Speaking of Quincey, our ace in the pocket, trade deadline acquisition. Wasn't he in on that first goal with a give away?

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Our D was atrocious, way too many mistakes happened and it cost us.

Quincey is not as solid as I hoped for.

Woohoo another season coming up with Bert and Mule in our top six. <_<

I still don't understand why Holland gave Bert a 2 year contract. /facepalm

Also unless Cleary comes back 100% he will be useless next season as well.

Anyone notice that the pick we traded for Quincey is probably lower than you thought it was going to be? 23rd overall I think. Ugh.

Right with you about Bert. One year...great, I'm down with that. Two?! Uh, this is a 45 point player...in your top 6. I don't know if he would take to a checking role in year two.

Our D has been bad for awhile now. '08 seems like 10 years ago. Stuart needs to go, Lidstrom has to stay, and Suter needs an offer.

Cleary is the Brandon Inge of the Wings. Hard worker, great effort but always hurt and inconsistent, if you have to actually count on his production...watch out. I like Cleary more than Inge though...he has a less of the entitlement attitude.

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We do need to make some moves, but it's not just about depth.

Nashville doesn't have any elite scorers, yet they had no problem scoring. That's because of the stupid turnovers we kept making.

We need to go back to having a solid defense which doesn't turn the puck over.

EuroWing likes this

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Bert and Cleary either need to be 3rd line guys with Helmer or shown the door. I would trade BOTH Flip and Franzen. Franzen is lazy and should have been shown the door after his the regular season dosen't interest me comment, that came after getting his big contract too. Flip is getting better but unless he is third line he just dosen't fit. He is way to soft in the corners and will not go to the front of the net.

Out- Franzen, Flip, Emmerton, Hudler, Stuart(unless he wants to stay), Eaves(I think is done)

In- Parise, Iginla/Nash, Smith(full time), Nyquist(full time), Prust, Slater

I think Calgary might come to the table to deal Franzen.

We do need to make some moves, but it's not just about depth.

Nashville doesn't have any elite scorers, yet they had no problem scoring. That's because of the stupid turnovers we kept making.

We need to go back to having a solid defense which doesn't turn the puck over.

Thats a good point. I do think having Smith up full time would help with puck movement. I am not sold on Quincey or Ericsson as puck movers though.

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Leaving money on the table is NOT something this team is used to doing. And as far as the trade deadline, and the high price for certain players like Gaustad: what percentage of the Wings uber deep prospect pool are going to be Nyquist, Helm, or Filppula versus those that will turn out to be Emmerton, Meech, or Ritola?

This is something I've tried to to articulate before, all hockey fans have a massive tendancy to over-rate their own prospects. Plus it seems like all our top prospects are (yet more) undersized skill players.

The big question is what do we do with Franzen. The contract is brutal and he just doesn't seem to care anymore. During the regular season everyone was saying "but at least he's a playoff performer," but now he's not even that. One lucky goal and invisible besides that despite playing with arguably one of the best players in the game

Trade him for something, anything, anyone. Even if its a salary dump type trade. Right now its more important to shift his bone-idle arse out the door than it is to get "value" for him. A message needs to be sent to the entire roster that loafing will NOT be tolerated, and that is 10 times more important than whatever player or picks we get in return.

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I believe this all goes back to Rafalski's decision to retire. I believe it caught Red Wings management off guard, and when they stood back and looked at their situation (including guessing how many more years Lidstrom would play) and looked at the FA market last Summer, they decided to sit on their hands and bring in the kids to see what they could do. They also figured that if things were not working they had a pot of gold to throw at someone at the trade deadline.

So they make some small changes (White, Commadore) and bring in the kids. Babcock himself said in his interview a few weeks ago that he told management he was not sure they would make the playoffs. Sitting on a backlog of prospects in Grand Rapids means at some point in time you have to use them.

And guess what. The team plays fairly well, Jimmy is having a great season and the off-season gamble they took appears to be paying off.

Then, a few injuries pop up (Howard, Eaves, Datsuyk, Lidstrom) and suddenly the mask is pulled off and the remaining team is exposed for what it is. The trade deadline comes around and while management is interested in a few potential targets the asking price is too high given management's sight is now firmly focused on the upcoming Summer FA market. Management brings in Quincey for some additional blue line help/upgrade to Kindl and decides to rely on the return of injured players to make a playoff run. In management's eyes, if the healthy team can play in April/May like it did in December/January then all will be well.

However the chemistry never did return with the injured players, and the loss of Helm was the dagger in the heart.

The playoffs exposed the Red Wings for not having a solid 4th line, i.e. the Grind Line. That should be one of their top priorities in the off season; reconstruct a new Grind Line, either with in-house players or bring in some new guys.

The playoffs also exposed the Red Wings for not having a "sniper" forward and a true "power" forward.

EuroWing and Carman like this

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People have got to get over the idea that Franzen could be traded. Why would any team take on a contract that pays that much money and has that big a cap hit to him for eight more years, especially given his apparent loss of desire? Franzen is probably going to retire in five years, because his salary the last three years is comparatively small. But ovet the next five years he is owed almost $25M -- there is no way any team takes that on unless they can dump an equally bad longterm contract on the Wings. Could he be had for Luongo? Maybe? For DiPietro? Certainly. (Not that we'd want him.) For Schenn, or anyone on Montreal? Not a chance. Therefore I think next season he gets moved back down to a role on the third line as a checker and penalty killer, and gets asked to do what he did well for his first two seasons, before he magically blossomed into a (short-lived) power forward. That may be our best hope of getting some value for the money we'll be paying him over the next five seasons.

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It's too bad Ken Holland is TOO STUPID, or we'd have many more good playoff runs and few more cups to show for it.

Holmstrom = WTF? This guys is SO USELESS. Why is he around still?

Bertuzzi = WTF? This guy is Tomas Holmstrom, but .25 mph faster.

Stuart = WTF? Why does anybody care that he wants to go to the West Coast? He's horrible. Great. Go ruin San Jose or L.A.

Hudler = WTF? This guy is 5 foot 6. He belongs in the McDonald's playland. Not in the Winged Wheel.

Conklin = WTF. Enough said.

Jimmy Howard = WTF? This guy isn't a top 10 goalie. He should be the BACK-UP. Not the Starter.

Parise-Datsyuk-Jokinen

Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen

Mursak-Helm-Nyquist

Tatar-Abdelkader-Emmerton

Eaves - Miller

Lidstrom-White

Kronwall-Smith

Ericsson-Quicey

Kindl

Nittymaki

Howard

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It's too bad Ken Holland is TOO STUPID, or we'd have many more good playoff runs and few more cups to show for it.

Holmstrom = WTF? This guys is SO USELESS. Why is he around still?

Bertuzzi = WTF? This guy is Tomas Holmstrom, but .25 mph faster.

Stuart = WTF? Why does anybody care that he wants to go to the West Coast? He's horrible. Great. Go ruin San Jose or L.A.

Hudler = WTF? This guy is 5 foot 6. He belongs in the McDonald's playland. Not in the Winged Wheel.

Conklin = WTF. Enough said.

Jimmy Howard = WTF? This guy isn't a top 10 goalie. He should be the BACK-UP. Not the Starter.

Parise-Datsyuk-Jokinen

Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen

Mursak-Helm-Nyquist

Tatar-Abdelkader-Emmerton

Eaves - Miller

Lidstrom-White

Kronwall-Smith

Ericsson-Quicey

Kindl

Nittymaki

Howard

Jokinen? :blink: And man oh man that bottom six is bad.

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It's too bad Ken Holland is TOO STUPID, or we'd have many more good playoff runs and few more cups to show for it.

Holmstrom = WTF? This guys is SO USELESS. Why is he around still?

Bertuzzi = WTF? This guy is Tomas Holmstrom, but .25 mph faster.

Stuart = WTF? Why does anybody care that he wants to go to the West Coast? He's horrible. Great. Go ruin San Jose or L.A.

Hudler = WTF? This guy is 5 foot 6. He belongs in the McDonald's playland. Not in the Winged Wheel.

Conklin = WTF. Enough said.

Jimmy Howard = WTF? This guy isn't a top 10 goalie. He should be the BACK-UP. Not the Starter.

Parise-Datsyuk-Jokinen

Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen

Mursak-Helm-Nyquist

Tatar-Abdelkader-Emmerton

Eaves - Miller

Lidstrom-White

Kronwall-Smith

Ericsson-Quicey

Kindl

Nittymaki

Howard

Bahahahahahahahaha Howard is top 5. Proved it before he got hurt, hasnt been the same since.

One thing Ken Holland is great at is addressing the teams needs after a bad year. He doesn't waste the teams money on lazy free agents. No Scott Gomez's in other words. Which is why if Parise is available, he's a wing by July 2. If Suter is there he's a wing to replace Stuart. The final addition will be Shane Doan. Most likely a late signee.

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People have got to get over the idea that Franzen could be traded. Why would any team take on a contract that pays that much money and has that big a cap hit to him for eight more years, especially given his apparent loss of desire? Franzen is probably going to retire in five years, because his salary the last three years is comparatively small. But ovet the next five years he is owed almost $25M -- there is no way any team takes that on unless they can dump an equally bad longterm contract on the Wings.

Don't Stop Believing.

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Stuart proved countless times his worth, ESPECIALLY when Lids got hurt. He plays very well and it's just that most people here seem hung up on his blunders rather than what he did well on the ice.

I have to say I'm not sure about Bertuzzi.. I find it hard to believe this is the guy who played on one of the greatest lines (Naslund-Bertuzzi-Morrisson).. Yes he's older but I didn't see any spark in him this season. Huge shame

I still believe in this team, if it stays healthy. Yes the coach was right, having Eaves and Helm would have made the 3rd and 4th line a lot more formidable

hooon likes this

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Stuart proved countless times his worth, ESPECIALLY when Lids got hurt. He plays very well and it's just that most people here seem hung up on his blunders rather than what he did well on the ice.

I think it's because his blunders tend to be very ugly and lead directly to goals against.

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Mike's been calling Ken out the whole season,Brett Burns,Smith,toughness,depth,physical play...but some of us simply didn't read between the lines ;)

I really hope this pretty honest press conference would stop "fire Babcock" calls :)

Rick D likes this

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