2458 replies to this topic

[55fan]

"The reality of losing more regular-season games as well as the 2013 NHL All-Star Weekend in Columbus is extremely disappointing," said NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly. "We feel badly for NHL fans and particularly those in Columbus, and we intend to work closely with the Blue Jackets organization to return the NHL All-Star events to Columbus and their fans as quickly as possible."

Progress. We all now agree that the Columbus fans are to be pitied.

[chances14]

Ryan Miller with a detailed explanation of why he's in favour of decertification, from the Globe and Mail.
Maybe Roman Hamrlik should start his own union. But, he shouldn't count on Erik Cole and Troy Brouwer joining.

the problem is, i don't see the owners caving into decertification like the nba and nfl did. nhl owners already shown once that they are willing to lose an entire season. i think they will be willing to do it again.

If the union goes that route, i think it will only galvanize the owners and make them dig in even deeper, similar to what the owners first lowball offer did to the players. I sure hope i am wrong

[hillbillywingsfan]

When are the players going to grow up and stop being so unprofessional?

As the lockout continues to drag on, Bolland on Friday reposted a Twitter entry that read: "can I get a RT for wanting Bettman dead?"

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nhl/story/_/id/8668147/dave-bolland-chicago-blackhawks-retweets-message-wanting-gary-bettman-dead

[frankgrimes]

Always loved Bolland, what a great guy.

Players are rightfully fed up with this little man destroying their and our game, wish he would go back to destroy Basketball. Someday a captain will take the cup from him and throw it at him. Bettman needs the go the sooner the better, otherwise this lockout will go on forever.

[Playmaker]

When are the players going to grow up and stop being so unprofessional?

As the lockout continues to drag on, Bolland on Friday reposted a Twitter entry that read: "can I get a RT for wanting Bettman dead?"

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nhl/story/_/id/8668147/dave-bolland-chicago-blackhawks-retweets-message-wanting-gary-bettman-dead

Stupid thing to say, obviously, but when you take away someone's livelihood, it's not surprising that tempers flare up a bit.

[frankgrimes]

Stupid thing to say, obviously, but when you take away someone's livelihood, it's not surprising that tempers flare up a bit.

Bolland did not say that, he just re-tweeted it (is that even a word?) so I guess he saw a "tweet" used something we call "forward option" in emails. So basically he just forwarded it, I really don't see why people are jumping at him? I really think people should stop reading more into comments than they really are, when a fan is saying "I want Bettman dead" it basically means he wants him gone from hockey and not murdered or anything like that.

Sometimes an easy approach is just the better one.

Edited by frankgrimes, 24 November 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[Rivalred]

At this point, the first person for take an upper decker in Bettmans flusher, steak dinner on me

On a more serious note... I really do the growing pains from this lockout will end all future lockouts... If it does and the dynamics of politics to help the game actually do improve, the wait will be worth it

Edited by Rivalred, 24 November 2012 - 11:00 PM.

[chances14]

Bolland did not say that, he just re-tweeted it (is that even a word?) so I guess he saw a "tweet" used something we call "forward option" in emails. So basically he just forwarded it, I really don't see why people are jumping at him? I really think people should stop reading more into comments than they really are, when a fan is saying "I want Bettman dead" it basically means he wants him gone from hockey and not murdered or anything like that.

Sometimes an easy approach is just the better one.

not the point. these guys are professional athletes who know they closely followed by the media and anything they say will be closely scrutinized. so bolland should know that people are going to take a wanting bettman dead tweet as him actually threatening bettman's life, even if bolland didn't mean it like that. these guys are professional athletes. they need to act like it, at least in public anyways. especially in times like these where the relationship between the nhl and pa is so dysfunctional.

the easiest approach is to just keep your mouth shut to the media and voice your concerns in pa meetings and conference calls.

[puckloo39]

Stupid thing to say, obviously, but when you take away someone's livelihood, it's not surprising that tempers flare up a bit.

Welcome to the forum, wish it was under better circumstances. I agree, the players have a right to be upset. I am pretty discouraged, myself, with each day bringing more bad news. I can easily imagine this situation lasting more than just this season.

I am even watching football, I am so bored.

[Playmaker]

Welcome to the forum, wish it was under better circumstances. I agree, the players have a right to be upset. I am pretty discouraged, myself, with each day bringing more bad news. I can easily imagine this situation lasting more than just this season.

I am even watching football, I am so bored.

Thanks, puckloo. Hope to be able to discuss actual hockey games soon. I agree, this is getting more discouraging and frustrating by the day. Football?? That's not so bad, I actually sat through an entire episode of X Factor...

[Pskov Wings Fan]

the problem is, i don't see the owners caving into decertification like the nba and nfl did. nhl owners already shown once that they are willing to lose an entire season. i think they will be willing to do it again.

If the union goes that route, i think it will only galvanize the owners and make them dig in even deeper, similar to what the owners first lowball offer did to the players. I sure hope i am wrong

If union is decertified then, as I understand it, the whole CBA issue goes away because without union there is no CBA. No need to discuss salary cap, revenue split or free agency. There are just individual hockey teams and individual hockey players which are free to negotiate contracts under existing laws (US or Canadian depending on location I would guess). I am not certain what becomes of the existing contracts in that scenario.

[chances14]

If union is decertified then, as I understand it, the whole CBA issue goes away because without union there is no CBA. No need to discuss salary cap, revenue split or free agency. There are just individual hockey teams and individual hockey players which are free to negotiate contracts under existing laws (US or Canadian depending on location I would guess). I am not certain what becomes of the existing contracts in that scenario.

but without the cba, there most likely won't be guaranteed contracts, pensions, health benefits , minimum salaries, etc. will the players be willing to play for the owners without any of those perks. i doubt it.

here's a good article on the decertification process

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...-questions.html

Edited by chances14, 24 November 2012 - 09:32 PM.

[frankgrimes]

Personally I'd love it, it would mean once again 30 own businesses instead of a roof holding NHL and finally very very very very nice UFA and draft days again.

For us as Red Wings fans the best owner in hockey would be finally able to throw around his wealth again, or does anyone think we would be bystanders watching other teams getting the best players? Don't kid yourself if the owners are getting their will this time, they are going to ask for 60/40 and more ludacrist contract restrictions the next time, so if they want to play hardball I am happy that the players are going to do so to.

I thinkk as Red Wings Fans we would really really benefit from that :-)

[Pskov Wings Fan]

but without the cba, there most likely won't be guaranteed contracts, pensions, health benefits , minimum salaries, etc. will the players be willing to play for the owners without any of those perks. i doubt it.

here's a good article on the decertification process

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...-questions.html

Lack of CBA does not necessarily eliminate the perks listed above. But it would mean that each player would need to negotiate contract with the club very carefully and make sure that everything CBA used to cover is spelled out explicitly.

[chances14]

Lack of CBA does not necessarily eliminate the perks listed above. But it would mean that each player would need to negotiate contract with the club very carefully and make sure that everything CBA used to cover is spelled out explicitly.

owners might be willing to dole out those perks for the superstar guys but i doubt they give them to the 3rd/4th line guys. lack of a cba would hurt them the most

Personally I'd love it, it would mean once again 30 own businesses instead of a roof holding NHL and finally very very very very nice UFA and draft days again.

For us as Red Wings fans the best owner in hockey would be finally able to throw around his wealth again, or does anyone think we would be bystanders watching other teams getting the best players? Don't kid yourself if the owners are getting their will this time, they are going to ask for 60/40 and more ludacrist contract restrictions the next time, so if they want to play hardball I am happy that the players are going to do so to.

I thinkk as Red Wings Fans we would really really benefit from that :-)

there would be no draft. all the top prospects would go to the highest bidder. the red wings would no doubt benefit from no cba, but the nhl wouldn't survive in the long run

[frankgrimes]

owners might be willing to dole out those perks for the superstar guys but i doubt they give them to the 3rd/4th line guys. lack of a cba would hurt them the most



there would be no draft. all the top prospects would go to the highest bidder. the red wings would no doubt benefit from no cba, but the nhl wouldn't survive in the long run

I hate to bring in other sports but look at the MLB, european soccer or some other non cap leagues they are all doing extremely well without work stoppages every 5 years.

The NHL will always ask and try different things in order to help very questionable markets, the truth of the matter is there are always going to be huge differences in terms of fanbase, revenue and the amount of $ a team can charge for tickets. I mean, after all this league has 30 teams and each team should be responsible for themselves. Decertification would also lead to finally seeing Bettman canned, without draf t, CBA, rights and whatsoever there really is no need for a commissioner and yes without the NHLPA Fehr would be gone too.

Owners would then compete with money, rights and nice clauses for the top players and even decent ones would get very good jobs, sure some teams would relocate or fold but thats part of the business.

[chances14]

I hate to bring in other sports but look at the MLB, european soccer or some other non cap leagues they are all doing extremely well without work stoppages every 5 years.

The NHL will always ask and try different things in order to help very questionable markets, the truth of the matter is there are always going to be huge differences in terms of fanbase, revenue and the amount of $ a team can charge for tickets. I mean, after all this league has 30 teams and each team should be responsible for themselves. Decertification would also lead to finally seeing Bettman canned, without draf t, CBA, rights and whatsoever there really is no need for a commissioner and yes without the NHLPA Fehr would be gone too.

Owners would then compete with money, rights and nice clauses for the top players and even decent ones would get very good jobs, sure some teams would relocate or fold but thats part of the business.

can't compare it to european soccer because that is by far the number 1 sport in the world, aside from north america. hockey can barely stay at the 4th spot in the united states. in mlb, there is still a draft, so small market teams can still have a chance of developing a good team before their star players get bought off by the big market teams.

the only players who would come out on top playing with no cba are the marquee players. the 3rd/4th liners would be screwed. i mean the players are complaining now about contracting issues. what's going to happen when the owners only want to sign these guys on a game by game basis? when they get hurt or don't perform, their money and contract goes out the window.

the last thing the players should want is teams folding, means less jobs for them.

Edited by chances14, 25 November 2012 - 12:35 AM.

[RippedOnNitro]

I hate to bring in other sports but look at the MLB, european soccer or some other non cap leagues they are all doing extremely well without work stoppages every 5 years.

The NHL will always ask and try different things in order to help very questionable markets, the truth of the matter is there are always going to be huge differences in terms of fanbase, revenue and the amount of $ a team can charge for tickets. I mean, after all this league has 30 teams and each team should be responsible for themselves. Decertification would also lead to finally seeing Bettman canned, without draf t, CBA, rights and whatsoever there really is no need for a commissioner and yes without the NHLPA Fehr would be gone too.

Owners would then compete with money, rights and nice clauses for the top players and even decent ones would get very good jobs, sure some teams would relocate or fold but thats part of the business.

Well...not entirely true. Most 'top' teams are in great debt. Most owners invest hundereds of millions in players, once an owner leaves...no more team.
The problem in European soccer is that the FIFA and UEFA do not have the balls to stand up to the teams with great debts.

[Kronstantinov]

The players are actually being generous, helping the owners pay for contracts they offered in the first place but couldn't afford.
The owners doing well can afford to contribute as well. After all they are the ones that hired Bettman and went along with his overzealous schemes for growing the league

Edited by Kronstantinov, 25 November 2012 - 02:41 PM.

[hillbillywingsfan]

Bolland did not say that, he just re-tweeted it (is that even a word?) so I guess he saw a "tweet" used something we call "forward option" in emails. So basically he just forwarded it, I really don't see why people are jumping at him? I really think people should stop reading more into comments than they really are, when a fan is saying "I want Bettman dead" it basically means he wants him gone from hockey and not murdered or anything like that.

Sometimes an easy approach is just the better one.

And what would you say if it were an owner calling out the NHLPA or retweeting that a fan said he wishes Fehr dead or some of the players that have been vocal? And how do you know what the fan is thinking? I'm sure there are fans out there that generally wish harm to come to the owners and or "Buttman" dur dur.