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Jedi

NHL submits offer to NHLPA - **Suspension Warning Post #70 & #273*

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For negotiations to move into the right direction 2 things need to happen:

1) The NHLPA counterproposal MUST not insult the owners... they must work directly off of the NHL's proposal.

2) The NHL and Gary Bettman CANNOT throw a hissyfit and break off communication again because there is no time for that.

If either of these 2 things happen then the season is over.

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Guest Playmaker   
Guest Playmaker

It seems so far though, that hasn't been the case. The NHL's offers are always take it, as is, or leave it. No room for negotiation. That's been a huge issue that I have with the owners. It would be nice if a deal was reached, but it's almost too little, too late for me. I will probably catch some games on TV, but that's the extent of it. Gave up my season tickets after the last lockout, but seems like not enough other fans did or will follow suit this time, which means another lockout in the future.

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It seems so far though, that hasn't been the case. The NHL's offers are always take it, as is, or leave it. No room for negotiation. That's been a huge issue that I have with the owners. It would be nice if a deal was reached, but it's almost too little, too late for me. I will probably catch some games on TV, but that's the extent of it. Gave up my season tickets after the last lockout, but seems like not enough other fans did or will follow suit this time, which means another lockout in the future.

Its either the NHL "Take it or leave it" attitude or the NHLPA "overhauling the whole deal". Neither of these attitudes are acceptable or constructive to a deal being made.

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Guest irishock   
Guest irishock

This'll fall apart. I'm pro cancelling the entire season rather than the false hope they give us.

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Does anybody know how the following affects already signed contracts? Is it only applicable to newly signed contracts?

- Maximum contract length of 6 years subject to a Club's ability to re-sign its own Player for a term of up to 7 years (provided the Player played his last full season with the re-signing Club). In addition, year-to-year Salary variability will be limited (up or down) to no more than 10% of the value of the first year of a multi-year SPC.

Anyway, the offer looks reasonable. And players get some stuff in "Working Conditions" and "Health and Safety" areas. NHLPA should take it.

Edited by Pskov Wings Fan

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Does anybody know how the following affects already signed contracts? Is it only applicable to newly signed contracts?

I believe it would only apply to contracts signed after the CBA ratification. Players signed under the previous CBA are still bound by the contracts they signed, unless bought out by their club.

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Guest Hatethedrake!   
Guest Hatethedrake!

If the cap were to end up at 60M for 12-13, that would put 16 teams in the need of some overhauls, including the Wings by about 1.5M.

http://www.capgeek.c...cap=$60,000,000

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $60,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,708,712; BONUSES: $462,500

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $753,788

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If the cap were to end up at 60M for 12-13, that would put 16 teams in the need of some overhauls, including the Wings by about 1.5M.

http://www.capgeek.c...cap=$60,000,000

I think this should solve that problem (if i understand it correctly):

"- Each Club will be entitled to execute up to one "Compliance Buy-Out" prior to the 2013/14 season pursuant to which payments made to the Player will not be charged against the team's Cap, but will be charged against the Players' Share."

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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $60,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,708,712; BONUSES: $462,500

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $753,788

that would leave us with like a single call-up. we wouldn't bind our hands that hardcore. didn't they already say they weren't touching the cap this season but would like to bring it down over the course of the next 7 years?

Edited by evilzyme

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another little tidbit in the the nhl's offer was that all non playoff teams would be eligible for the lottery draft with the goal of reducing tanking late in the season

Edited by chances14

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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

What changes did you make? Em and Patty?

I think this should solve that problem (if i understand it correctly):

"- Each Club will be entitled to execute up to one "Compliance Buy-Out" prior to the 2013/14 season pursuant to which payments made to the Player will not be charged against the team's Cap, but will be charged against the Players' Share."

Well, maybe for the Wings, assuming we buy out a 1.5M player. Some teams are 7, 8, 9M over the $60M cap, so unless they are willing to buyout a high dollar player, it will create some interesting scenarios.

Edited by rrasco

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Guest Hatethedrake!   
Guest Hatethedrake!

What changes did you make?

Well, maybe for the Wings, assuming we buy out a 1.5M player. Some teams are 7, 8, 9M over the $60M cap, so unless they are willing to buyout a high dollar player, it will create some interesting scenarios.

Subtract Emmerton and Eaves (injured). Holland has this team in excellent shape if we have a 60 mil Cap right away. It makes no sense to buy any player out on the Wings this time around. Should be quite a bit of trade action if it is a 60 mil Cap immediately even with the 1 player per team buyout. Philly comes to mind.

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Subtract Emmerton and Eaves (injured). Holland has this team in excellent shape if we have a 60 mil Cap right away. It makes no sense to buy any player out on the Wings this time around. Should be quite a bit of trade action if it is a 60 mil Cap immediately even with the 1 player per team buyout. Philly comes to mind.

Yeah, I just went to capgeek and determined the changes you made. Updated my post, but you beat me to it. Sucks Eaves is having such a hard time recovering. The guy played his heart out for us.

This just in:

Renaud Lavoie@RenLavoieRDS

NHL source told me a deal needs to be done by January 11. If not, the 2012-2013 season will be cancel.

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I like this offer. The league budged a little. Now its time for the players to do the same here. If there is a counter offer it better have only a few small concession requests. Ask maybe for 8 year re-sign contract limit rather than 7 and 11% variance. Just try to squeeze a little more out of the same proposal. If the players try to counter with something different the season will be lost. The way negotiations have gone, each time there are counter offers the nhl has disappeared for a couple weeks.

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Guest Hatethedrake!   
Guest Hatethedrake!

It seems each time the NHL makes an offer and makes some concessions the NHLPA responds with basically the same offers they have been making to the NHL all along only dressed up differently. I am surprised the NHL has actually kept making all these offers. I hate to say it but if I were an NHL owner, I would have told Bettman to axe the season months ago. I just shake my head at this dog and pony show from both sides. Even if there is a season this year, I am not going to any Wings games. I usually attend 4 or 5 games at the Joe and go to Toronto if the Wings are playing there. But not this time. I can't stomach giving any money to either side right now. I know neither the owners or players could care less though. :lol:

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I'd buyout sammy's or bert's contract. Tatar has made his case to be in the big leagues and the most successful teams balance rookie and senior contracts to make the cap. Good on Holland for not spending to the cap this offseason. When cleary leaves at the end of the season, that, plus the removal of coliacovo or white will leave us room to sign a top dman in the offseason.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)

Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,548,712; BONUSES: $672,500

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $13,323,788

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For negotiations to move into the right direction 2 things need to happen:

1) The NHLPA counterproposal MUST not insult the owners... they must work directly off of the NHL's proposal.

2) The NHL and Gary Bettman CANNOT throw a hissyfit and break off communication again because there is no time for that.

If either of these 2 things happen then the season is over.

This. The PA has to counter off of this offer instead of bringing an entirely new proposal to the table, and the league has to be open to hearing some negotiation from the PA off of this offer without throwing a tantrum. If these two things can happen they might be able to get some traction. But since this approach seems obvious and driven by common sense, I have no confidence that that is how it will be handled. I'm so tired of talking about this and pissed at myself that I still care. I just want it done. Blow the season or sign a deal. PLEASE.

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I'd buyout sammy's or bert's contract. Tatar has made his case to be in the big leagues and the most successful teams balance rookie and senior contracts to make the cap. Good on Holland for not spending to the cap this offseason. When cleary leaves at the end of the season, that, plus the removal of coliacovo or white will leave us room to sign a top dman in the offseason.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)

Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,548,712; BONUSES: $672,500

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $13,323,788

Yeah, it looks like Holland is a lot smarter than some give him credit for.

If the cap is lowered to 60mil for the start of the 2013 season.... what a mess. :no:

Boston Bruins » $68,867,976

Minnesota Wild » $68,848,867

Vancouver Canucks » $67,768,333

Calgary Flames » $66,668,332

Philadelphia Flyers » $66,643,373

San Jose Sharks » $65,241,667

Chicago Blackhawks » $64,445,128

Buffalo Sabres » $64,354,523

Montreal Canadiens » $63,897,976

Washington Capitals » $63,594,572

Toronto Maple Leafs » $63,485,833

Tampa Bay Lightning » $63,246,916

Edmonton Oilers » $62,933,333

Los Angeles Kings » $62,320,227

Detroit Red Wings » $61,442,045

Pittsburgh Penguins » $60,989,333

Edited by redwingmachine

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Guest Hatethedrake!   
Guest Hatethedrake!

The pattern seems to be something like this...

NHL makes offer. NHLPA accepts NHL's concessions and dresses up counter proposal basically giving up nothing. Players keeps saying 'we agreed to 50-50' when really they didn't. If you look closely enough at what exactly the NHLPA has been offering, it is still around 55-57%. So the NHL then gets mad and Bettman throws a hissy fit and Daly says dumb things like 'this is the hill we will die on.' Neither side talks for a week or 2 and then the NHL comes back with another offer. The NHLPA responds the same way they have all along. During this process we see things such as...Crosby standing behind Fehr with his baseball cap pulled down to his crotch saying things like 'we have made fair offers and the owners have done nothing and we can't negotiate with an unwilling partner.' Daly (Elmer Fudd) basically does most of the talking to the media because Bettman is too angry to speak apparently.Billionaires fighting with millionaires. It's impossible for me to feel sorry for any of these guys. I mean seriously, how to these guys NOT get a deal done? Bettman is making 8 mil and I am surre Fehr is not starving. These guys are PAID to negotiate a deal and yet all they do is whine back and forth. What gets me the most is the time wasted in all of this. When the NFL and NFL union were negotiating back and forth, at least they were talking around the clock EVERY DAY. These twits can't even talk most of the time. And when they do, they get mediators involved and go through the motions. "I want this, this and that. Well I want that, that and this." Oh now I am so mad I can't talk anymore. I may get back to the table if I feel like it in a week or so." Both sides are deadline hunting. Things will not get serious until the last minute in mid January. Then when Fehr offers the same thing only dressed up differently and Bettman throws his 67th hissy fit, there will be NO time to negotiate an actual deal. Too much time wasted. No momentum made. No real negotiating done. It's like when you're in school and you wait until the last minute to study for a test but instead you go to Game 7 Wings vs Leafs at the Joe in 1993 and watch in horror as NIk the Stik scores the game winning goal. Oh wait never mind...What was I saying? Both sides are morons. The NHL IS and has always been its own worst enemy. I think Babs may be right. The NHL when it does come back, may be as popular as bowling in the US. The NHL is not a 3 billion dollar industry anymore that's for sure. And whose fault is it? Bunch of clowns.

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Guest Playmaker   
Guest Playmaker

He did the same thing before the last lockout, which is why the Wings were able to remain comepetitive for as long as they have. He's never just thinking about the here and now, but always has an eye to the future.

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another little tidbit in the the nhl's offer was that all non playoff teams would be eligible for the lottery draft with the goal of reducing tanking late in the season

That combined with the small shift if free agency's start date smacks of common sense. I'm not sure if I like it.

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Guest Hatethedrake!   
Guest Hatethedrake!

He did the same thing before the last lockout, which is why the Wings were able to remain comepetitive for as long as they have. He's never just thinking about the here and now, but always has an eye to the future.

Yeah, back in 2006 Kenny had to make a $68 mil team a $39 mil team. He bought out Hatcher, Whitney and McCarty. This time he prepared for it. Funny how things would be if he was able to sign Suter though. Well like Mick says 'if all the ifs and buts were candy and nuts then we'd all have a Merry Christmas."

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