• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

RedWingNation43

Wings Looking For Defenseman

Rate this topic

368 posts in this topic

And he hasn't had what would even be considered a mediocre season in what, 5 years? Low risk/low reward. Can Scott Gomez come along with him?

Isn't this kinda just projecting a fear of risk failure? The idea was already stated, low risk (but still there) and high reward. That's the risk but why is that all we can focus on? We have to one day realize that there are way, waaay more factors that go into a guy not succeeding than just not being able to play anymore. That's the easy, and sometimes fun thing to think but it's just not realistically accurate (even though laying judgment gives us a rush that we can't resist). Especially on Detroit where we can make players look better.

Edited by shoobiedoobin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="shoobiedoobin" data-cid="2340328" data-time="1358286144"><p>

<br />

Isn't this kinda just projecting a fear of risk failure? The idea was already stated, low risk (but still there) and high reward. That's the risk but why is that all we can focus on? We have to one day realize that there are way, waaay more factors that go into a guy not succeeding than just not being able to play anymore. That's the easy, and sometimes fun thing to think but it's just not realistically accurate (even though laying judgment gives us a rush that we can't resist). Especially on Detroit where we can make players look better.</p></blockquote>

Not without #5 we cant. Those days of reclamation projects are over. Our talent pool is thin now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not following how that makes sense. Redden would be signed for pennies to possibly play on the bottom pairing. If he doesn't work out....we've spent almost nothing and can replace him with someone else who is very cheap, very easily. I'm not seeing where Nick or any top 2 defenseman would play in. Again, we just look both scared to take a risk and scared the sky is falling because our NHL 13 rosters don't have high attributes. For all we know, we could decide to move our feet for the first time in a couple seasons and be just fine on D. No other team in hockey has had a Lidstrom and somehow many teams turn out OK on defense. We sound like the dumped boyfriend who is convinced his ex is the best girl in the world-he can get by with someone else like everyone else has.

Edited by shoobiedoobin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Isn't this kinda just projecting a fear of risk failure? The idea was already stated, low risk (but still there) and high reward. That's the risk but why is that all we can focus on? We have to one day realize that there are way, waaay more factors that go into a guy not succeeding than just not being able to play anymore. That's the easy, and sometimes fun thing to think but it's just not realistically accurate (even though laying judgment gives us a rush that we can't resist). Especially on Detroit where we can make players look better.

And we have to one day realize that putting on a Wing jersey doesn't make any player automatically better. Look better? Yes, because it's the best looking jersey in all of sports. Play better? Hardly.

If in any other year, where there was a full training camp, sure bring him in & see what he can do. If he can't hack it, send him packing to GR. There isn't that luxury this season so that means bringing him in to start the regular season. That would be at the risk of losing a roster player to make room for him or sending Smith back down to GR since he has 1 year of waiver exemption left. So, expose either Kindl, Emmerton, or Mursak to waivers and lose them (and the odds are very high they would get claimed) or start the season with Redden, who hasn't proven he's belonged in the NHL in years, or Smith who is considered more than NHL ready & the future linchpin of your D-core.

Edit: I'm calling it right now. Redden ends up with the Islanders & Kenny does pull off a minor trade to bring in more help for the bottom pairing in the next week+ with a combination of either Mursak/Emmerton, a pick, and/or a low level prospect but it won't be a earth-shattering/break the internet trade...very minor.

Edited by ogreslayer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And we have to one day realize that putting on a Wing jersey doesn't make any player automatically better. Look better? Yes, because it's the best looking jersey in all of sports. Play better? Hardly.

If in any other year, where there was a full training camp, sure bring him in & see what he can do. If he can't hack it, send him packing to GR. There isn't that luxury this season so that means bringing him in to start the regular season. That would be at the risk of losing a roster player to make room for him or sending Smith back down to GR since he has 1 year of waiver exemption left. So, expose either Kindl, Emmerton, or Mursak to waivers and lose them (and the odds are very high they would get claimed) or start the season with Redden, who hasn't proven he's belonged in the NHL in years, or Smith who is considered more than NHL ready & the future linchpin of your D-core.

I don't mind Smith in GR if Redden were to pan out. I don't like it but I view it the same way I view Nyquist starting in GR to begin the season. And I wouldn't mind losing Emmerton, since I don't think he has much of a future here anyway. He's got that feel to him like he'd do well on another team. Rare but it happens. And I've supported him and think we rip on him way too much. He's very solid defensively, doesn't make many mistakes and is a good but not great 4th line guy and sometimes that's all you need. But sometimes you take a chance if it's staring you in the face. At the end of the day, you don't base this decision on hope, you bring him in for a try out. See if he can still skate. I get this feeling if we signed another bottom six guy with some unfounded reputation for being "solid" for 1 year 700k we wouldn't have an issue with it. Or if we're paranoid, get him to sign a two way deal and tell him if he can play his way onto the team that he'll get a spot. It's Redden, it's not like he can be picky.

And yes, players coming to Detroit more often than not will play better. Just like any very good team. That's how hockey works and we've seen a ton of examples. Don't even try to claim otherwise. We're the reclamation destination of choice.

Edited by shoobiedoobin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't mind Smith in GR if Redden were to pan out. I don't like it but I view it the same way I view Nyquist starting in GR to begin the season. And I wouldn't mind losing Emmerton, since I don't think he has much of a future here anyway. He's got that feel to him like he'd do well on another team. Rare but it happens. And I've supported him and think we rip on him way too much. He's very solid defensively, doesn't make many mistakes and is a good but not great 4th line guy and sometimes that's all you need. But sometimes you take a chance if it's staring you in the face. At the end of the day, you don't base this decision on hope, you bring him in for a try out. See if he can still skate. I get this feeling if we signed another bottom six guy with some unfounded reputation for being "solid" for 1 year 700k we wouldn't have an issue with it. Or if we're paranoid, get him to sign a two way deal and tell him if he can play his way onto the team that he'll get a spot. It's Redden, it's not like he can be picky.

And yes, players coming to Detroit more often than not will play better. Just like any very good team. That's how hockey works and we've seen a ton of examples. Don't even try to claim otherwise. We're the reclamation destination of choice.

A few thoughts:

  • To lose a player on waivers to bring in Redden would be a waste of resources. Use those resources instead (Emmerton, Mursak, or Kindl) to package with picks and/or prospects to bring in a proven NHL quality d-man to help the bottom pairing now.
  • It's a 48 game season. Every game counts & if you get off to a slow start, your season my very well be over. Can you take the chance on giving regular ice time to a guy who hasn't proved he can hack it in the NHL since the 2007-08 season?
  • Redden hasn't played since last season as he's not on the Whale's AHL roster this year. How many regular season games can you afford to give him to get into playing shape?
  • At this point, Smith brings far greater value to the big club's lineup than Redden can. Hell, Mike Commodore would bring more value than Redden at this point.
  • Two way deal? No, there will be some team (Islanders) that will give him a 1 way contract & a roster spot. Let him sign somewhere else.
Edited by ogreslayer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To lose Emmerton* to waivers for a Redden who in the eyes of our coaching staff hypothetically looked good enough to sign for pennies? Not a waste at all. Like I said, I'm not basing this on hope or foresight. Make Redden earn it and if he looks good, that trumps some silly "hasn't been good for years" paranoid fear. And I'm not thinking about this in terms of how many games we have to give him to be in shape, my view is if he's not in shape now, bye. If he is and can play at minimum 7th or 8th dman, his upside is very high. Like was said, it's a risk. Funny you bring up Commodore, since it appears that the sky in fact didn't fall after we signed him. Here we are, just fine. And if Redden gets a 1 way deal somewhere else, cool, good for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like idea of bringing Dmitry Kulikov to Detroit. He's only 22 years old. I haven't watched enough of him to really say how defensively sound he is. Definitely has some offensive upside. 28 points in 58 games last year. On top of all that, his presence may make Datsyuk feel a little more at home, since Kulikov is Russian.

Marxx71 and Jesusberg like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see Holland holding on to our expendable pieces until the deadline. Emmerton, Mursak, Tatar, Nyquist and Kindl can all be used in package deal for a great defensemen. Holland will wait until the deadline and a team looking to rebuild.

Would you trade Nyquist, Emmerton and Kindl + picks for Iginla and J Bou for a playoff run?



Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Brunner

Franzen-Flippula-Iginla

Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary

Tootoo-Abdelkader-Eaves

Ericsson-Kronwall

J Bou-Quincey

White-Coliavacio

T.Low and Marxx71 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't work for Salary reasons, if we do something like that Filpulla, or Franzen will have to be involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I really like idea of bringing Dmitry Kulikov to Detroit. He's only 22 years old. I haven't watched enough of him to really say how defensively sound he is. Definitely has some offensive upside. 28 points in 58 games last year. On top of all that, his presence may make Datsyuk feel a little more at home, since Kulikov is Russian.

So why would Florida get rid of him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can see Holland holding on to our expendable pieces until the deadline. Emmerton, Mursak, Tatar, Nyquist and Kindl can all be used in package deal for a great defensemen. Holland will wait until the deadline and a team looking to rebuild.

Would you trade Nyquist, Emmerton and Kindl + picks for Iginla and J Bou for a playoff run?

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Brunner

Franzen-Flippula-Iginla

Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary

Tootoo-Abdelkader-Eaves

Ericsson-Kronwall

J Bou-Quincey

White-Coliavacio

You are joking right? No one in their right mind would take that! iginla and J bou, for kindl, emmeron, and nyquist and draft picks? First of all our draft picks suck, secondly the only valuable piece of that trade is Nyquist. I feel like any gm who would accept a trade even remotely similar to that would be fired immediately. That would be like us trading Datsyuk and Kronwall for Kostopoulos, Jackman, and Derek Smith with a 2nd round pick. Holland would be canned so fast...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2340471" data-time="1358307429"><p>

<br />

You are joking right? No one in their right mind would take that! iginla and J bou, for kindl, emmeron, and nyquist and draft picks? First of all our draft picks suck, secondly the only valuable piece of that trade is Nyquist. I feel like any gm who would accept a trade even remotely similar to that would be fired immediately. That would be like us trading Datsyuk and Kronwall for Kostopoulos, Jackman, and Derek Smith with a 2nd round pick. Holland would be canned so fast...</p></blockquote>

Its amazing how good most people on here think our "prospects" are. Nyquist and Tatar for Malkin and Letang. Pittsburgh would easily jump on that. We have the biggest collection of sissy Euros who cant hit, skate, or score in the NHL as our "prospects" right now. Nyquist this. Nyqyist that. Andersson is the guy. He and Emmerton will play all day in front of Nyquist and Tatar. Speed and size.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll start this post by saying that I've got a "soft spot" for Komisarek - especially his days when he was a Hab; tough physical stay at home Dman who was a solid in his own end...

Toronto has been a nightmare for him; big $$$ + him trying to do too much = failure.

I'm thinking if the Leafs were now to buy him out to make cap room for Luongo - why not give Komisarek a 1 year deal for league minimum?..We have a history in Detroit of turning around ex-Maple Leaf Dmen; Larry Murphy, Bob Rouse, Jamie Macoun, Todd Gill, and Mathieu Schneider are all examples.

I think he could potentially return to his Hab years, and be a solid addition for the 3rd pairing...If not - he then goes down to GR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Its amazing how good most people on here think our "prospects" are. Nyquist and Tatar for Malkin and Letang. Pittsburgh would easily jump on that. We have the biggest collection of sissy Euros who cant hit, skate, or score in the NHL as our "prospects" right now. Nyquist this. Nyqyist that. Andersson is the guy. He and Emmerton will play all day in front of Nyquist and Tatar. Speed and size.

There's a reason most think our prospects are good; it's because they are. While we do have our fair share of soft Euro prospects, I think the likes of Sheahan, Ferraro, Callahan, Sproul, and McKee would strongly disagree with your overall assessment. Also, we have a couple all-star NHLers who were once considered soft euros, you've likely heard of them, Datsyuk and Zetterberg ring a bell?

I wonder what could possibly make you think Nyquist can't skate or score in the NHL? Please inform us of what you see that our pro scouts must have missed in their multiple evaluations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2340471" data-time="1358307429"><p>

<br />

You are joking right? No one in their right mind would take that! iginla and J bou, for kindl, emmeron, and nyquist and draft picks? First of all our draft picks suck, secondly the only valuable piece of that trade is Nyquist. I feel like any gm who would accept a trade even remotely similar to that would be fired immediately. That would be like us trading Datsyuk and Kronwall for Kostopoulos, Jackman, and Derek Smith with a 2nd round pick. Holland would be canned so fast...</p></blockquote>

Its amazing how good most people on here think our "prospects" are. Nyquist and Tatar for Malkin and Letang. Pittsburgh would easily jump on that. We have the biggest collection of sissy Euros who cant hit, skate, or score in the NHL as our "prospects" right now. Nyquist this. Nyqyist that. Andersson is the guy. He and Emmerton will play all day in front of Nyquist and Tatar. Speed and size.

You misread me... Our prospects are very good, the problem is they are just that, prospects. No one in their right mind is going to trade away their best forward and #2 dman for a couple draft picks and kindl, and two "unproven" prospects... especially the kindl part and emmerton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="cr00d" data-cid="2340577" data-time="1358355311"><p>

<br />

There's a reason most think our prospects are good; it's because they are. While we do have our fair share of soft Euro prospects, I think the likes of Sheahan, Ferraro, Callahan, Sproul, and McKee would strongly disagree with your overall assessment. Also, we have a couple all-star NHLers who were once considered soft euros, you've likely heard of them, Datsyuk and Zetterberg ring a bell?<br />

<br />

I wonder what could possibly make you think Nyquist can't skate or score in the NHL? Please inform us of what you see that our pro scouts must have missed in their multiple evaluations.</p></blockquote>

Yah, when they were 17 years old maybe. Dats and Z were impact guys from the start. Noone was talking about Dats looking good in Grand Rapids during 2000. The guy was a legit NHLer from the go and people knew we stole him in the draft. Same with Z. This is what scares the shot out of me. Since those 2, our forwards havent popped out like they use to. Its been dry in that area for a long time as far as top 3-6 talent goes. Meanwhile, Edmonton is adding 1 or 2 of them each year. Dead Things might be coming back. Kenny is NOT getting 'er done, Im afraid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="cr00d" data-cid="2340577" data-time="1358355311"><p>

<br />

There's a reason most think our prospects are good; it's because they are. While we do have our fair share of soft Euro prospects, I think the likes of Sheahan, Ferraro, Callahan, Sproul, and McKee would strongly disagree with your overall assessment. Also, we have a couple all-star NHLers who were once considered soft euros, you've likely heard of them, Datsyuk and Zetterberg ring a bell?<br />

<br />

I wonder what could possibly make you think Nyquist can't skate or score in the NHL? Please inform us of what you see that our pro scouts must have missed in their multiple evaluations.</p></blockquote>

Yah, when they were 17 years old maybe. Dats and Z were impact guys from the start. Noone was talking about Dats looking good in Grand Rapids during 2000. The guy was a legit NHLer from the go and people knew we stole him in the draft. Same with Z. This is what scares the shot out of me. Since those 2, our forwards havent popped out like they use to. Its been dry in that area for a long time as far as top 3-6 talent goes. Meanwhile, Edmonton is adding 1 or 2 of them each year. Dead Things might be coming back. Kenny is NOT getting 'er done, Im afraid.

It's a scary thought but there's good news-a guy doesn't have to be an NHL from the word go in order to become a great player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yah, when they were 17 years old maybe. Dats and Z were impact guys from the start. Noone was talking about Dats looking good in Grand Rapids during 2000. The guy was a legit NHLer from the go and people knew we stole him in the draft. Same with Z. This is what scares the shot out of me. Since those 2, our forwards havent popped out like they use to. Its been dry in that area for a long time as far as top 3-6 talent goes. Meanwhile, Edmonton is adding 1 or 2 of them each year. Dead Things might be coming back. Kenny is NOT getting 'er done, Im afraid.

Both guys were 22-23 years old when they joined the Wings. KH let them "ripen" over seas rather than in GR. Much the same as is happening with Jarnkrok now, who, coincidentally, is being compared to none other than Zetterberg.

Do a little research on our prospects; I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Detroit has done a marvellous job of stocking good, young talent with their late picks; and while they aren't on the same level as the prospects being drafted in Edmonton, we as Wings fan also haven't had to put up with year after year of miserable seasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish Emmerton would go away and for Nyquist to make the team. With our average blueline, we need all the scoring we can get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a question for the forum, but if Brunner turns out to be the real deal, how would everyone feel about trading a package with Nyquist as a main piece to NJ for Anton Volchenkov? We need a shutdown defender who can play against top forwards. Jersey needs to add a little offensive punch. What do you guys think? Hypothetically, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now